auchencrow

flash2070

VJP, and Recumbent, you are exactly right! It is not cheating! The internet is at the fingertips of everyone. Some people just don't care, are too lazy to do a 5 minute Google search, or just want the "thing" out of their house. Others do know what they have, and are very happy to let it go at the price that they are asking. In August 2011, I scored my grail bike a Raleigh Professional. The gentleman posted it on CL for 350, I bought it for 250. The bike is in beautiful condition with all of that generic ugly and worthless Campy Super Record stuff! :-) The owner did now what he had, but he just wanted to sell the bike. Was I suppossed to tell him that it was worth about $1000. No! He already knew that! :-) Like you stated, some people have a real problem with others making a great score since it is not them. For that bike I got up at 6am, and drove an hour to be the first one at the sellers house, since I knew that as soon as people saw it the next morning on CL, my chances of acquiring it would definitely decrease. 2012 will be a phenomenal new year for me, as I will continue to acquire beautiful road bikes at my price thanks to the sellers! I do not carry a gun with me putting it on peoples heads when I make an offer. Think about this, the sellers problably bought the bikes themselves at a garage sale, thrift shop, or fleamarket for way less than what they are asking for, so that is the reason that a lot of them are very happy with the amount that they get for their bikes. :-)

P.S. I hope that all of you here score the bikes that you have dreamed about. Dream big, but get up early to make it happen! :-)

sherilinn

Hope the guy that shot the robbers didn't get in trouble. In my state he'd go to prison.

trekday2100

RobbieTunes story had a good ending...

This was my first and last time buying something sight unseen. Everytime this joker pops up on Craigslist he will get flagged as a crook.

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...e-Bicycle-Shop

The bike was short of trash, dented frame, both wheels were shot and could not be salvaged (rear wheel bent - broken axle, spokes on drive side bent, races pitted, front had a really bent rim and hub was shot as well. Chain stretched beyond bad, one can see it coming off the chainring when pedaling slowly. The only thing that was "re-conditioned" was the bar tape).

The whole bike was rebuilt and ridable and now sits awaiting either a decent Shimano tri-color gruppo or a decent 9 spd setup. The only thing original that remains on the bike are derailleurs, seatpost and seat, and frame.

old's'cool

Never a "bad" experience, a few learning experiences when looking for a city bike for my daughter. I soon came to recognize the dkos with the recycled ads & canned descriptions and realize they weren't worth bothering with. I've done pretty well with casual sellers that just want to get rid of a bike they've owned for a while and no longer need.

Bikes and Jeeps

After dealing with several honest sellers i became careless.
I met the owner at his house on a cold night. Quickly looked at the bike
and put it in my Jeep.
The seat post was stuck. He knew this because it was heavly damaged and the bolt was missing.
I have never been able to understand crooks that let people know where they live.

mapleleafs-13 

CL hasnt been bad for me, really, way more positives then negatives, you get the odd seller who doesn't describe the item properly, saying mint condition when it's kinda cruddy, sometimes i'll give the guy hell when i see it, or offer him something way lower for price because it's not as described.

when i find something i like and it's described the way it was in the listing i have no problem paying what they're asking or maybe 10-20 bucks off.

If someone "overbook's" a item and there's about 3 or 4 other people at their house when i get there and i don't leave with the bike. I would say the minimum punishment would be to go to the grocery store and purchase some eggs for decoration on their windows.

mtnbke

I once drove two hours to pick up a 66cm Klein, big Kleins were at least included in geometry charts but I've never even seen a pic of an existing bike. I finally get to the sellers house and his "66cm" is a 63cm. He measured the seat tube to the top of the seat collar. I bought the bike anyway and found someone that could use a vintage Klein in that size.

For the record a 63cm Cannondale is also 66cm from the center of the BB to the top of the seat collar. A 27" Cannondale ST touring bike should measure 73cm to the top of the collar. Hope that saves someone a trip, someday.

mtnbke

I found this Olmo:

https://vintageolmo.shutterfly.com/

Full pantographed Campy Gran Sport. Needed new Olmo front fork, and the head tube needed to be checked out to make sure it wasn't bent. I looked for a 66cm Olmo for awhile, they are supposed to exist, but I couldn't find one. Threw this in as a gimme on a Lemond with Campy Ti Chorus I sold. He promised to restore it. Found it parted out on eBay soon thereafter. Emailed him reminding him that he had specifically promised not to do that, I could have myself and reminded him that he said he would restore. He replied that I needed to "grow up."

jmccain

Do the folks that advise a seller that they are underpricing do the same to sellers that are overpricing?

JReade

Phwew, for a second there, I didn't think you were going to include something about a Cannondale, but you pulled it off!

Hoss Cartright

My sentiments exactly. The seller needs to do their own research. There are plenty of ways to determine the value of almost anything these days. Anyone who prices their item too cheap is doing what they want to do, and I'm not twisting their arm.
From 20 years as a semi-professional yard sale buyer and 12+ years as a hobbyist yard sale to ebay flipper, any time I pay the asking price my conscience is absolutely clean regardless of the huge profit I may make on the item. It's not my job as a buyer to police the prices of seller's items, this is the fundamentals of Western Capitalist society? Buy low and sell high..
Anyone who thinks differently about buyers like me needs to study the principles of the pawn shop or rent-to-own business. They make flippers like me look like the Pope...
The fact that I carry some large money on my yard sale adventures and also have experience in walking into a bank and getting an instant cash advance on the VISA card to facilitate a deal is what I call "Johnny on the spot" - Many superb purchases over the years have been because I had the green on me and could make it happen in an instant. Before sellers remorse or somebody else grabbed it.

Example, my pristine $350.00 Yard sale 1973 P10-9 Paramount.



My $4500.00 60,000 actual mile garaged it's whole life one-owner 1969 Cadillac Coupe DeVille

Rabid Koala

On the rare occasion I connect with a CL seller, I always tell them I have cash and that if the bike is the way it is represented in the ad I am not messing around. I try to strike quickly as well, often this is not practical though.

Hoss, that Caddy is beautiful, it was made when a Caddy was well, a Caddy. I love the 65-69 Caddys, never had one of my own though.

iab

There is a definately a line. I know enough about some things to considered an "expert". I know that Frejus is worth $600-$800 retail. The seller was obviously ignorant of that fact. Which is fine, I certainly don't know the valuation of every collectable out there. If I got a piece of glassware from granny, it could be worth $5 or $5,000. I would have no clue. In my opinion, an expert in glassware has an ethical obligation to tell me that piece of glassware is worth the $5,000 at my garage sale. There is no doubt that expert would tell me it is worth $5 if I listed it at $5,000.

Some states actually have expert laws on the books. Timmy goes to the baseball card shop with a Honus Wagner, and gives Timmy $5 for it, it is against the law. So I am in no way alone in my opinion about my ethics.

I would consider most people on these boards as "experts". Personally, I would define a "good" deal is a wholesale price which is typically half of retail. An expert can be in the business and they need to make some profit. But $150 for an $800 bike would be cheating. Call me smug. Call me an SOB. I expect to be treated as I would treat others. How about you?

Oh, and please don't say it is the fault of the seller being ignorant with instant information at your fingertips. To know every trivial piece of information about every collectable in the world is an impossibility. Right now, I couldn't tell you the difference between a gen 1 Super Record anything. I do know that the difference is hundreds of dollars. Some couple on Antiques Roadshow had a black and white striped wool blanket. I probably could get one very similar to in from China for $20. I believe it was worth a half million. Just because your interest is in rusty bike parts and the majority of rusty bike parts are worthless doesn't mean the seller is responsible to know as much as you.

iab

Is there a line? Does anything go?

cudak888 

I'd like to see a statute to that effect. A Google search for "expert law" only brought up one relevant page - Bikeforums.net.

-Kurt

iab

So you admit you are taking advantage of the sellers ignorance by snapping the bike up before someone else makes a better offer.

Hoss Cartright

So if I understand this correctly, it is morally wrong and in some states it is illegal to let your neighbor give you an extremely valuable collectors item for free?

Free all Campy Bianchi

Or take a valuable bike from the curb or dump that was thrown-out as trash?

cudak888 

Ownership of curbside trash is a different legal matter entirely, which will differ amongst municipalities.

Let's stick with the topic of "expert laws" for now - no need to complicate things.

-Kurt

vjp

IAB,

If you think that the Frejus was worth $800, you are more than welcome to give the seller $800 for it. If you are not buying it yourself it is easy to play "fair" with other buyers money.

3alarmer 

When I am looking at bikes, people ask for my opinion on valuation
on a pretty regular basis. I give it to them when they ask.

A lot of the "smokin'" deals I've seen over the years are due to
ignorance of the current custodian.....very often they have inherited
a bike in some manner. I don't flip bikes (at least not in the sense
the term is used here), and I have a reasonable retirement income.

I guess I might react differently if I were in this to make money
or were strapped financially, but in all honesty, doesn't everyone
on this particular forum already have at least a couple of reasonable
bikes to ride already ? I'm particularly distressed by those of you
who buy "smokin' deals" to strip the groups and sell on E-bay.

I know we live in a free market economy, but there actually is
a limit on the high end classic bike resource base. Would be
nice if this fact were more acknowledged.

Snydermann

I am guilty of offering a craigslist seller more than asking price in order to complete a sale or move my name to the top of the list of interested parties. This is usually done via email before I even know how much interest the item has gathered. This works quite often. My last purchase was a mint vintage military surplus metal storage cabinet/parts bin offered at $75.00, I offered $90.00 in my introductory email and was contacted a day later. I was the third person to respond to the ad, out of a total of five and the seller sold me the item because I offered $15.00 more.

I don't tell the seller what the retail value of his item may be, I just offer what I feel is a price I'd be willing to pay. Browsing through any on line industrial supply catalog would show the cabinet I purchased would cost well over $1000.00 to buy new.

I'd never contact a seller and advise him of his low pricing just to be a good samaritan. I have responded when asked through the website, many people have contacted us to ask our pricing advice before selling their Vintage Lotus. I believe it's the seller's responsibility to price their items correctly, the research is not that difficult to do if you're willing to do a little work. If you're not willing to do the proper research, then it may cost you.

Hoss Cartright

The topic of morals.
In about 1966 the neighbor kid.. "Dickie" - He won't leave me alone wanting my little cheap plastic finger ring with the picture of the Beatles on it.. So he offers me his cool Dinky toy James Bond Aston Martin DB4 for an even Steven trade.. OK, done deal...
Ten minutes later his Mom is at my house real angry that I swindled him.. So, I'm having a hard time understanding how his pestering and his outright offer make me the swindler. My Granny convinces me that to be the real man, morally I need to give him back the DB4..
But he mysteriously "lost" the Beatles ring that he wanted so badly.. I got cheated on my very first transaction by a slick little fast talking rich-kid neighbor and his bully Mom.

So, I guess Dickie ruined me for life.

From that day on, you set the price on something you want to sell me or you ask for an item I have and agree to pay a price. (especially when it is something I have that is not actually for sale, but keeping in mind the "everything has a price" rule)
Money changes hands, DONE DEAL! Sorry about your buyers or seller's remorse.
I am as straight-up as they get. My word is gold, and it works both ways. If I agree to buy something and I am making a mistake, I'm a man of my word and the deal is done. Lots of hard lessons early on but not making mistakes in the future is what it is all about. Nobody was there to hold my hand when I made the mistakes of the past, nor when I make them in the future. But a deal is a done deal and "it's only guaranteed to turn right or left off of the lot"

I'm done on this thread. I'm sure some of you are happy about that.. And I have a 100% clean conscience. Grabbing it the moment it comes up for sale prevents all of this from happening. I paid the asking price. end of story.

tugrul

I'd like to see a reference to this law as well.

To me, it would seem the case of the card shop is distinct from the garage sale as the seller isn't seeking out the services of the expert when the expert wanders into the garage sale, so what is the context for his obligation?

3alarmer 

Possibly, but let us hope not.