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  1. #1
    Senior Member rothenfield1's Avatar
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    Frame Dent Repair?

    Has anyone had success having a frame dent repaired. I've heard of the tubing being rolled to, I assume, pinch-out the dent. I also know that individual tubes can be replaced. I bought this particular bike at a low price for its components; but the finish is extremely good and it is a desirable frameset. The dent is a significant dime-sized in the center of the TT. It’s a fine frame, and would seem a shame to have to scrap it. The bike is not my size and perfectly rideable, but you know how picky C&Ver can be.

    I’ll get some pics up tomorrow if there is any interest.
    Half of the time I fear I may not know what the hell I知 doing; the other half, I知 sure of it.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Alan Edwards's Avatar
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    Selling the frame with the dent is the easiest thing to do. As far as removing the dent Balindamood and a few others have been successful to some extent. If you are trying to save the paint your only choice is a tube block with grease and squeeze the dent out. If you want to touch up the paint then brass, tin, lead, or bondo could be used to fill the dent before fixing the paint by adding a graffic or color block.
    Totaly cheap wieght weenie. Totaly cheap bike snob. But I love Italian hand made stuff. 84' Ciocc, 85' Raleigh Super Course, 96' Sakae Litage, 2000 Lemond Maillot Jaune,
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  3. #3
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    Rolling dents typically results in a clean strip of raw steel.

  4. #4
    Senior Member rothenfield1's Avatar
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    What is the cut-off point of whether it's worth the effort or not? I've asked this question of a frame builder I'm acquainted with, who while probably want to replace the tube, but my impression is that unless it's a grail bike, a dent in the frame is a death nail for most C&Vers.
    Half of the time I fear I may not know what the hell I知 doing; the other half, I知 sure of it.

  5. #5
    Senior Member randyjawa's Avatar
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    What is the cut-off point of whether it's worth the effort or not? I've asked this question of a frame builder I'm acquainted with, who while probably want to replace the tube, but my impression is that unless it's a grail bike, a dent in the frame is a death nail for most C&Vers.
    In my experience, you do the work, look at the results and then decide if a new tube is warranted. And, yes, for me a dented tube is, often times, a deal breaker, however...

    Many dents will roll out pretty darn good, but not perfectly. More often than not, a wee bit of filler will be needed to complete the job, prior to painting.

    Funny thing is, I plan on rolling out a few dents this week. I have a Marinoni with a tiny boo-boo, a Steve Bauer with a bigger boo-boo and a Raleigh Competition that just might not respond well to some gentle block rolling treatments;-(

    Learn how to find, restore and maintain vintage road bicycles at... MY "TEN SPEEDS"

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    I have one bicycle that has a small wrinkle in a tube, my Zullo.

    Sizable enough that I am keeping her around for light Sunday rides, but certainly not offering her for resale.

    I keep her because she is a pretty frameset, and i love to look at her!

    As for buying something with a ding/dent, I usually wouldn't give a bicycle frame a second look with this defect.

    However, I have a friend that raced an Independent Fabrications cyclocross bicycle this last fall.

    It has a decent handlebar ding in the tt, and he's offering it to me for peanuts.

    I need a racing frameset for the Almonzo 100 in the spring, and this may be the right one.

    So, I won't be buying this for looks, and it will probably be safe enough.

    I'm still going to have a local builder look at it to give it a diagnosis before I buy it.

  7. #7
    Hopelessly addicted... photogravity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyjawa View Post
    In my experience, you do the work, look at the results and then decide if a new tube is warranted. And, yes, for me a dented tube is, often times, a deal breaker, however...

    Many dents will roll out pretty darn good, but not perfectly. More often than not, a wee bit of filler will be needed to complete the job, prior to painting.

    Funny thing is, I plan on rolling out a few dents this week. I have a Marinoni with a tiny boo-boo, a Steve Bauer with a bigger boo-boo and a Raleigh Competition that just might not respond well to some gentle block rolling treatments;-(

    Every time you show the picture of that Raleigh I want to cry. The unfortunate timing... The unknown fate... I shall be interested to see how the dents roll out on that frame.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member randyjawa's Avatar
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    Every time you show the picture of that Raleigh I want to cry. The unfortunate timing... The unknown fate... I shall be interested to see how the dents roll out on that frame.
    Only took me ten minutes;-)

    Learn how to find, restore and maintain vintage road bicycles at... MY "TEN SPEEDS"

  9. #9
    Senior Member Alan Edwards's Avatar
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    Randy, you are bad. That is not the same frame, you had me for a second though.
    Totaly cheap wieght weenie. Totaly cheap bike snob. But I love Italian hand made stuff. 84' Ciocc, 85' Raleigh Super Course, 96' Sakae Litage, 2000 Lemond Maillot Jaune,
    2010 Nashbar SRAM RED, 86', 87', 89' Ironmen, 96' Schwinn Super Sport, 79' Shogun 1500, and ten projects.

  10. #10
    Senior Member rothenfield1's Avatar
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    Here痴 a picture of the dent. I知 not sure why I知 even thinking about messing with a repair, the bike is not my size and I bought it for peanuts for the parts. However, it has a super-nice finish and I hate the idea of it never being ridden again.
    Half of the time I fear I may not know what the hell I知 doing; the other half, I知 sure of it.

  11. #11
    Senior Member rothenfield1's Avatar
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    Screw it, I’m building the SOB. Too tall stand over height..screw it. Ugly dent in the TT..screw it. I bought the bike for the components that I figured to transfer to an older Trek, but the finish on this frame is too fine to throw in the trash heap, dent be damned. The TT length works for me. If anyone tall guys out there want a donor frame, I’d be willing to send it for the cost of shipping. Otherwise, I'm going rebuild it.
    Half of the time I fear I may not know what the hell I知 doing; the other half, I知 sure of it.

  12. #12
    Wrench Savant balindamood's Avatar
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    That will take some torch help to get out. The cable stay is in the way such that I do not think you can roll the dent out without taking the stay off and re-brazing it back on. By the time you do that, you might as well fill the dent.

    BTW, nice frame. The '86 300/310 Elance's are the sleepers of the decade IMO.
    "Where you come from is gone;
    where you are headed weren't never there;
    and where you are ain't no good unless you can get away from it."

  13. #13
    )) <> (( illwafer's Avatar
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    rothenfield,

    that's the worst place for a dent. you can't roll it out without buzzing off the cable guide. bummer.

    if it weren't in line with the guide, you would lube up some frame blocks and probably roll that nearly out with minimal paint damage.

  14. #14
    Senior Member loose spoke's Avatar
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    An auto shop teacher friend saw my Specialized with a dent just like this one and said he could fix it. He tack welded a small post like a rivet to the bottom of the dent, attached a tool I think he called a slide hammer. A few quick taps and the dent nearly dissappeared. He used a grinder to remove the stud. I needed to fill it a bit, but I have no fear of its strength. After paint touch up, it passes the three foot test. With a full repaint, it would be gone.
    You wouldn't want to do this to a frame with perfect paint unless you are confident you can touch it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by rothenfield1 View Post
    Here’s a picture of the dent. I’m not sure why I’m even thinking about messing with a repair, the bike is not my size and I bought it for peanuts for the parts. However, it has a super-nice finish and I hate the idea of it never being ridden again.
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  15. #15
    Senior Member rothenfield1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by balindamood View Post
    That will take some torch help to get out. The cable stay is in the way such that I do not think you can roll the dent out without taking the stay off and re-brazing it back on. By the time you do that, you might as well fill the dent.

    BTW, nice frame. The '86 300/310 Elance's are the sleepers of the decade IMO.
    I'm just becoming awakened to them. This one is a 400. I believe the 300's were Ishiwata tubing. The 400 is 531.
    Half of the time I fear I may not know what the hell I知 doing; the other half, I知 sure of it.

  16. #16
    Senior Member rothenfield1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by illwafer View Post
    rothenfield,

    that's the worst place for a dent. you can't roll it out without buzzing off the cable guide. bummer.

    if it weren't in line with the guide, you would lube up some frame blocks and probably roll that nearly out with minimal paint damage.
    What about grinding off the cable guide and replacing it with a clamp guide?
    Half of the time I fear I may not know what the hell I知 doing; the other half, I知 sure of it.

  17. #17
    )) <> (( illwafer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rothenfield1 View Post
    What about grinding off the cable guide and replacing it with a clamp guide?
    sure. but in that case, i would probably just leave it alone. it is structurally fine. it just looks bad and kills your resale value.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rothenfield1 View Post
    Here’s a picture of the dent. I’m not sure why I’m even thinking about messing with a repair, the bike is not my size and I bought it for peanuts for the parts. However, it has a super-nice finish and I hate the idea of it never being ridden again.
    The proper way to fix a dented top tube like this one is to pound a brass or wodden plug (I think it's called a bugie) through the tube to force out the dent. However, you'd need to be able to access the end of the tube to do this, which you might be able to do via the head and/or seat tubes. However, another strategy would be to drill a small (1/8" hole in the TT opposite the dent and use a 1/8" brass drift to force the dent flush with the tube, then plug the hole with silver brazing rod. Sand and repaint the repaired surfaces. If you do it carefully you'll have a nice looking repair and a frame that should be as strong as the original.

  19. #19
    Senior Member rothenfield1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neurocop View Post
    The proper way to fix a dented top tube like this one is to pound a brass or wodden plug (I think it's called a bugie) through the tube to force out the dent. However, you'd need to be able to access the end of the tube to do this, which you might be able to do via the head and/or seat tubes. However, another strategy would be to drill a small (1/8" hole in the TT opposite the dent and use a 1/8" brass drift to force the dent flush with the tube, then plug the hole with silver brazing rod. Sand and repaint the repaired surfaces. If you do it carefully you'll have a nice looking repair and a frame that should be as strong as the original.
    Intriguing!
    Half of the time I fear I may not know what the hell I知 doing; the other half, I知 sure of it.

  20. #20
    WNG
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    You can try the ice expansion trick. It worked for a fellow in the single/fixie forum. There was a link to it in another dent rolling thread here.
    Of course, it might not get cold enough in Monterey, CA.
    Know anyone with a walk-in freezer?
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  21. #21
    Senior Member haddawad's Avatar
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    I would bondo it and touch it up, since it's not structural.

  22. #22
    vjp
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    This, plus the slide hammer method. The other suggestions are pretty silly.

    Quote Originally Posted by haddawad View Post
    I would bondo it and touch it up, since it's not structural.

  23. #23
    Senior Member bibliobob's Avatar
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    I recently rescued this victim of fixterization:



    which, unfortunately for me, has this:



    and this:



    and this:

    I may build her up and ride her, just as she is, because there's no structural damage and she's just so damned beautiful...

    But, I need to find out how much it would cost to get a proper builder to fill it with silver or other filler. And then, either have the builder touch up the paint, or get an auto paint place to mix some up and do it myself.
    I grow old, I grow old. I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled.

  24. #24
    Senior Member gaucho777's Avatar
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    I wouldn't bother with a repair attempt. Maybe if it fit and you loved the frame, then sure. But since it's not your size, it's not worth the trouble to repair and then fix the paint, if you ultimately plan to sell the frame. If I were you, I'd just let the the next owner decide.

    That said, there's also this technique: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...l-frame-repair.
    -Randy

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  25. #25
    Is Right
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    Quote Originally Posted by rothenfield1 View Post
    I'm just becoming awakened to them. This one is a 400. I believe the 300's were Ishiwata tubing. The 400 is 531.

    Nice looking bike! I would just ride it- but if going for a repair, I'd be inclined to try the tack-weld post/slide-hammer technique described by loose spoke. That dent doesn't compromise the frame structurally, IME, and is quite common on everyday riders.

    Anyway cool bike man.

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