Why the double top tube?
01-04-12, 09:47 PM
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Why the double top tube?
Why do bikes like this have a double top tube? I know it isn't vintage, but it does resemble a vintage design.
01-04-12, 10:49 PM
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It's stronger than a single toptube, Pashley's and others use it also but usually on their larger frames.
01-04-12, 11:10 PM
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What is it for?? Unnecessary weight of course. It seems pretty silly on a frame that size.
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01-04-12, 11:18 PM
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You ought to see the ones with double top and downtubes.
They're made that way for absolutely unbelievable abuse - in countries where most of the population is too poor to buy a replacement bike, much less the first one.
-Kurt
They're made that way for absolutely unbelievable abuse - in countries where most of the population is too poor to buy a replacement bike, much less the first one.
-Kurt
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01-05-12, 12:31 AM
#5
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The large frame Rivendell Homer Hilsen has a double top tube.
"The really big ones get double top tubes to make 'em stronger. Most big bikes don't have 'em but should. Really there aren't that many models out there to choose from for tall riders. This is your bike."
"The really big ones get double top tubes to make 'em stronger. Most big bikes don't have 'em but should. Really there aren't that many models out there to choose from for tall riders. This is your bike."
01-05-12, 05:09 AM
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It does make sense for a really large frame. But I see these frames in Latin America and Asia where the average rider is probably shorter.
Most of there frame, like the one in my pic are actually small frames.
Most of there frame, like the one in my pic are actually small frames.
01-05-12, 05:12 AM
#7
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An other oddity about these bikes is that they use a wheel/tire size called 28. I would have to check but it seems larger than a 700 which is also called 29.
Cycling mysteries.
Cycling mysteries.
01-05-12, 05:16 AM
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Maybe softer steel, more likely to bend than alloy steel ?
01-05-12, 05:24 AM
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Aaron
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01-05-12, 05:42 AM
#10
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I would believe that both of these come into play. I know on a larger frame like the Rivendell is makes sense. On the smaller frames it is for pure strength. If you have ever seen pictures from Indonesia or India you should see the massive loads they put on these bikes. Remember these are the pickup trucks of those countries. Only a small percentage of the population can afford something like a small pickup truck.
Aaron
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Passengers and even cargo are often carried on the top tube, this could bend or even permanently deform it. The second top tube would add strength and maybe even act as a back up should the "top" top tube become damaged.
01-05-12, 07:40 AM
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I kind of like them. I'd love to have an old truss frame Iver Johnson.
01-05-12, 08:04 AM
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That is an Indian copy of a Raleigh DL-1. The example in the O.P. has been upgraded to cable-actuated caliper brakes but these would normally have rod-actuated rim brakes.
I've read that the double top tube models of bikes like these are marketed for heavy use, such as carrying large loads. The 24" Flying Pigeon (a Chinese version) is only available with a double top tube, while the 22" model is sold with both single and double top tubes.
I have to imagine that the heavy straight-gauge tubing on these bikes is much stronger than the lightweight tubing on racing bikes and higher-end 10-speeds; so I don't think compensating for "softer steel" is a real issue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_Cycles
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Pigeon
I've read that the double top tube models of bikes like these are marketed for heavy use, such as carrying large loads. The 24" Flying Pigeon (a Chinese version) is only available with a double top tube, while the 22" model is sold with both single and double top tubes.
I have to imagine that the heavy straight-gauge tubing on these bikes is much stronger than the lightweight tubing on racing bikes and higher-end 10-speeds; so I don't think compensating for "softer steel" is a real issue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_Cycles
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Pigeon
01-05-12, 08:14 AM
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Strong > big loads
This one even has a truss on the fork.
This one even has a truss on the fork.
01-05-12, 08:28 AM
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I need this, it will look great next to my Mixte and Rigi
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01-05-12, 08:44 AM
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Yep; my 700 x 22 tubular tires are marked 28".
According to St. Sheldon in his article on tire sizing, 29" is "a marketing term for wide 622 mm ("700c") tires", and "some German tire companies use this non-standard designation [28"] for 622 mm ("700c") tires."
https://sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html
According to St. Sheldon in his article on tire sizing, 29" is "a marketing term for wide 622 mm ("700c") tires", and "some German tire companies use this non-standard designation [28"] for 622 mm ("700c") tires."
https://sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html
01-05-12, 08:52 AM
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Double top tubes are more "manly".
Manly men ride them.
Manly men ride them.
01-05-12, 09:06 AM
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According to Sheldon's tire sizing chart, there's another 28" besides 700c. Interestingly, it's 700B, aka 635 BSD, aka 28 x 1 1/2." Seems likely this is the size for a bike like this, or one of the old ones anyway. From Sheldon's chart:
28 x 1 1/2 635 mm English, Dutch, Chinese, Indian Rod-brake roadsters
(Also marked F10, F25, 700 B)
28 x 1 1/2 635 mm English, Dutch, Chinese, Indian Rod-brake roadsters
(Also marked F10, F25, 700 B)
01-05-12, 09:06 AM
#21
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The 700 in "700C" refers to the fact that the outside diameter of a tire, when mounted on the rim will be about 700mm in diameter. The "C" is part of an old French system that denoted a narrow rim - with "B" being wider, and there must have been an "A" size rim too. So a 700C rim is a narrow rim intended to be used with a 700mm outer-diameter tire.
A 29er tire is bigger than 700mm (about 27.6 inches), so the 700 part of "700C" does not really apply. Also, since some 29er rims are wide, the "C" part really doesn't apply either. So a 700c rim can be used to build a 29er wheel, but technically speaking not all 29er rims are 700C (if you use the real definition). However, if you define a 700C rim as any rim with a 622mm bead diameter, then a 29er rim is a 700C rim.
01-05-12, 09:08 AM
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01-05-12, 09:16 AM
#23
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+1 to this. The 28" used in India is not the 28"/700c of Europe/North America. It's bigger.
If it was than getting my rear wheel issue sorted out while on tour wouldn't have been such an "interesting" process.
https://peacocksrideindia.wordpress.c...e-india-style/
If it was than getting my rear wheel issue sorted out while on tour wouldn't have been such an "interesting" process.
https://peacocksrideindia.wordpress.c...e-india-style/
According to Sheldon's tire sizing chart, there's another 28" besides 700c. Interestingly, it's 700B, aka 635 BSD, aka 28 x 1 1/2." Seems likely this is the size for a bike like this, or one of the old ones anyway. From Sheldon's chart:
28 x 1 1/2 635 mm English, Dutch, Chinese, Indian Rod-brake roadsters
(Also marked F10, F25, 700 B)
28 x 1 1/2 635 mm English, Dutch, Chinese, Indian Rod-brake roadsters
(Also marked F10, F25, 700 B)
01-05-12, 10:57 AM
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Bingo - precisely - and if that isn't convincing enough to all the spoiled Westernites who think they can equate the design of these DL-1's to one of Grant Peterson's ideas, I submit the following:
Note the double top and downtubes:
And, just for amusement, Raleigh's fantastic series of DL-1 + lion advertisements from South Africa:
-Kurt
Note the double top and downtubes:
And, just for amusement, Raleigh's fantastic series of DL-1 + lion advertisements from South Africa:
-Kurt
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Last edited by cudak888; 02-22-21 at 12:04 AM.
01-05-12, 12:19 PM
#25
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I wasn't attributing the idea to Grant, simply using the Rivendell as an example.
Schwinn had double top tube frames in its 1917 Excelsior catalog.
Schwinn had double top tube frames in its 1917 Excelsior catalog.
