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  1. #1
    Cycles With Children aloKen's Avatar
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    Cleaning up hub races

    duraAceHub.jpg axleRaces.jpg

    I decided to repack this hub, it was a little rough. The races on the one side look great, but on the other they are terrible. How do I get the races on the left to look like the ones on the right? Does is matter? I've tried scrubbing with a brillo and soaking in simple green. The races inside the hub are bad like these on the axle. Any tips?
    The more I tinker with bikes, the better I understand why it was bicycle mechanics who invented the airplane.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Michael Angelo's Avatar
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    You're going to need a new race, and possible bearing cup in the hub.

  3. #3
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    Axle cone is toast.....you can try to smooth it out with 1000+ grit wet dry sand paper followed by 2000+ but its pretty much a goner. Do the same thing to the hub race....1000+ followed by 2000+ but odds are its a goner too.

    NOS Dura Ace cones are very tough to find and the hub races are even more difficult.
    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  4. #4
    Senior Member randyjawa's Avatar
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    I cannot tell if the race is actually pitted, or just corroded. Sometimes you can clean them up by rubbing the surface with aluminum foil. Once clean, look again at the bearing surfaces. If pitted, best to pitch and replace. If you can't find, then use the very find sand paper to clean and tidy the surfaces to the best of your ability, however...

    The cleaned up races will probably not last long, but at least you will be on the road while you seek out another set. Replace the balls, no matter what. They will definitely be shot, in my opinion.
    Learn how to find, restore and maintain vintage road bicycles at... MY "TEN SPEEDS"

  5. #5
    Cycles With Children aloKen's Avatar
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    I think it's corrosion, the race inside the hub is just as bad. When I opened it up, the grease looked really bad. In the other side the grease looked almost new. Maybe some water got in there and did its thing for twenty years? Thanks everyone for your advice!
    The more I tinker with bikes, the better I understand why it was bicycle mechanics who invented the airplane.

  6. #6
    十人十色 Dawes-man's Avatar
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    I much improved the races and cones on an old pedal I wanted to get use out of by using valve grinding paste, instead of bearing grease, and working the spindle in the pedal by hand. Start off with the old balls, then use new balls, throw them away when they go a dark grey, then new balls as you go from coarse to fine paste.

    The pedal went from this:
    [IMG]
    R0012194 by Dawes-man, on Flickr[/IMG]

    To this:
    [IMG]
    IMG_6212 by Dawes-man, on Flickr[/IMG]

    The general opinion was that the revealed metal would probably be less hardwearing than the original surface, which was probably hardened. But the pedal has gone from useless to usable. If you're interested in the opinions expressed on this work by C&V members, the thread is here:
    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...al-Restoration
    "I bet you'd do the same if they was you." F. Zappa

  7. #7
    Senior Member Lenton58's Avatar
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    Not too long ago I encountered an Atom hub with a galled cone. No replacements avaiable! I chucked the axle in an electric drill, then secured the whole deal. I set the drill to run about 1000 RPM and then used WD-40 and some emery wrapped around a drill bit that approximated the curvature of the race. The result: I can still feel a tug where I could not get all the damage out, but I can adjust the cone tension and the wheel spins and settles at it heaviest point each time. Perhaps it will last for awhile?? I should have used Dawes-man's idea of using a valve paste grind as a finish. Atom/Maillard/ Normandy cones were cheese to begin with. You should have much better luck with Dura Ace!

    From what I can see in the pic, you do not have galling, but rather there is a bit of pitting from corrosion. You should be able to polish at least half of it out. Get some new D-A bearings.

    miamijim:
    NOS Dura Ace cones are very tough to find and the hub races are even more difficult.
    I can't speak to American Shimano supply, but here my LBS can order spares for Shimano going back a surprisingly long way. If you fail to find spares, let me know and I'll see what I can do here.
    Me: I've learned a lot about cycling by my mistakes, and I can repeat them perfectly! My Bikes: Vitus-979, Simplon-4-Star, Gazelle-AB, Woodrup

  8. #8
    十人十色 Dawes-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenton58 View Post
    Not too long ago I encountered an Atom hub with a galled cone. No replacements avaiable! I chucked the axle in an electric drill, then secured the whole deal. I set the drill to run about 1000 RPM and then used WD-40 and some emery wrapped around a drill bit that approximated the curvature of the race. The result: I can still feel a tug where I could not get all the damage out, but I can adjust the cone tension and the wheel spins and settles at it heaviest point each time. Perhaps it will last for awhile??
    Glad that worked out, Lenton!
    "I bet you'd do the same if they was you." F. Zappa

  9. #9
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    It will be hit or miss. I've tried polishing out the pits/gouges of hub and cone bearing races using various tools and abrasives, and it sometimes seems to work, but only with small/superficial roughness. Problem is that the races were ground on machine tools to an exact geometry and you'd need the same tooling to grind the races back to spec. I've encountered lots of hubs where one of the cone races is messed up like yours, and always the hub race it went with is also messed up (usually cause water and/or grit got into it). Replacing the cone is usually easy, but for the most part a shot hub race means you should get a new hub. Seeing pics like yours should motivate folks to regularly service their cone-bearing hubs.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Barchettaman's Avatar
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    Lenton, regardless of whether the OP takes you up on it, that is an extremely kind offer and another example of why C&V is such a great internet forum. Bravo, sir.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Lenton58's Avatar
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    Barchettaman:
    Lenton, regardless of whether the OP takes you up on it, that is an extremely kind offer and another example of why C&V is such a great internet forum. Bravo, sir.
    I have been on the receiving end of much kindness and care from BF members. It's a great community. What comes around should go around. (Thanks)
    Me: I've learned a lot about cycling by my mistakes, and I can repeat them perfectly! My Bikes: Vitus-979, Simplon-4-Star, Gazelle-AB, Woodrup

  12. #12
    Senior Member Lenton58's Avatar
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    neurocop:
    Problem is that the races were ground on machine tools to an exact geometry and you'd need the same tooling to grind the races back to spec.
    I think you are absolutely right. Polishing on your bench is a desperate measure, but it can buy time and Kilometers — perhaps enough to get you to the next flush bank account and new set of hubs, or some hunted-down spares. Bearing technology and metallurgy has to be much more than what we usually take for granted: casting, forging, stamping, machining, grinding, polishing, tensioning, lubricating, sealing — several hundred years of technical development, engineering and science.

    In the case of Dawes-man's pedals: he may get some more distance due to lighter loads (perhaps) and lower rate of rotation. This came out on his pedal thread.

    In the case of hub bearings: the loads are much greater, and any imperfection we can feel in our hands as we rotate the axle will (AFAIK) be multiplied when it is loaded.

    My opinion from what I have read and perhaps discovered in my workshop: there is a change in cone tension when the hub is fastened to the frame or fork. This changed is variable and relative to the specific hub. Many people may overlook this. Incorrect hub tension may be responsible for a lot of cone wear. And so not only servicing but correct servicing is important. It might be a good time to remind members that a lot of Shimano hubs seem to come out of the factory with tight bearings. I have found this out myself, and now I assume that all new bearings need to be checked out before ridden. That reminds me — I should check out my new Ultegra wheel set. At that grade level, they should be tensioned correctly — but then again they are unmounted. That's where the sealed bearing has some advantage. Shimano still uses loose balls because they believe that they too have advantages.
    Me: I've learned a lot about cycling by my mistakes, and I can repeat them perfectly! My Bikes: Vitus-979, Simplon-4-Star, Gazelle-AB, Woodrup

  13. #13
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawes-man View Post
    I much improved the races and cones on an old pedal I wanted to get use out of by using valve grinding paste, instead of bearing grease, and working the spindle in the pedal by hand. Start off with the old balls, then use new balls, throw them away when they go a dark grey, then new balls as you go from coarse to fine paste.
    One of the bicycling magazines in the 70s featured just such a solution in an article.

  14. #14
    Senior Member irwin7638's Avatar
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    I improved a set in the past by packing the hub with Simichrome polish then attaching the axle to a variable speed drill. I gave them repeated bursts with the drill for about five minutes. They came out better than new. Yours look pretty rough,but it might bw worth a try before replacing them.

    Marc
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  15. #15
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenton58 View Post
    In the case of hub bearings: the loads are much greater, and any imperfection we can feel in our hands as we rotate the axle will (AFAIK) be multiplied when it is loaded.
    I totally agree with Lenton's statement. I've found that other (i.e. non-hub) bearings may have a "hand-feel" that's a bit rough but still function perfectly under load in regular use (e.g. BB's, pedal, and headset bearings), but that isn't the case with wheel hub bearings. For these, I do not accept anything less than absolute rotational "hand-feel" smoothess after servicing. It is impossible to get this smoothness with cone bearing hubs that have bearing races that are pitted or scored beyond a certain point (or other defects, such as bent axles or out-of-alligment bearing surfaces).

    I certainly appreciate the benefits of cartridge bearings, but their benefit over "adjustable" cone & loose bb hubs is mainly that they either work perfectly or they don't, and they supposedly don't require as frequent servicing. As good as they are, they are not perfect. Makers of high-end hubs (like Campy) sgtill use cone & race bb hubs. There is little one can do to routinely service a cartride bearing hub, except to keep it clean and properly tensioned, and perhaps add lubricant, though how you should add lubricant is a matter for debate. You can of course replace a worn out bearing cartridge with a new one, but that is a chore and not really easy.

  16. #16
    Senior Member rothenfield1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barchettaman View Post
    Lenton, regardless of whether the OP takes you up on it, that is an extremely kind offer and another example of why C&V is such a great internet forum. Bravo, sir.
    Hear, Hear!
    Half of the time I fear I may not know what the hell Iím doing; the other half, Iím sure of it.

  17. #17
    Cycles With Children aloKen's Avatar
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    Ok, I got some grinding compound and polish at Auto Zone tonight. I'll give it a spin in the drill and see how it looks.
    The more I tinker with bikes, the better I understand why it was bicycle mechanics who invented the airplane.

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