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  1. #26
    Gone World Hepster 23skidoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by custermustache View Post
    I'm with 23skidoo

    I even show you how.

    It's easy.
    A picture is worth a thousand words...
    77 Trek TX300--78 Trek TX-300--79 Trek 510--83 Trek 520--83 Nickel Plated Trek 400--86 Trek Elance 400--75 Gitane Interclub--73 Viscount 'Death Fork SS--76 Viscount Aerospace Pro--80's Diamant Verbinnen--80's Basso--90's Montagner SS--84 SR Explorer MTB

  2. #27
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbakl View Post
    I just grab the dropouts and pull apart, measure, pull, measure. Then check center with my alignment tool and adjust as required. Then square up the dropouts and align the dropout hanger.

    No big deal, really, if you have the tools. Actually, measuring and string work fine too. Any upright primate could do it.
    +1. Piece of cake.

    Keep in mind that every steel frame built by every builder has been cold set. Every one. Any builder that says they didnt either got lucky on a single frameset or is lying.
    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  3. #28
    afraid of whales Mr IGH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbakl View Post
    I just grab the dropouts and pull apart, measure, pull, measure. Then check center with my alignment tool and adjust as required. Then square up the dropouts and align the dropout hanger....
    I mount the frame in a bench vise at the bb with wood planks and move each stay independently. If I have to change from 120mm to 132.5 I move each stay 6mm then set the alignment of the dropouts. I learned this method when I worked for a frame builder back in the 70s/80s. All steel frames get final alignment set this way.

  4. #29
    Fahrrad Mama kiwigem's Avatar
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    This is all really helpful guys, thanks!

  5. #30
    Senior Member TugaDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
    6mm should be able to squeeze in, your choice.

    As far as finding a good shop, ask them if they have any spare parts for older bikes. When they give you the spiel that any bike older than five years is obsolete (happened to me), turn around and leave.
    Great point. I stopped in a shop last year to buy some tubes. While I was there, I was perusing the newer bikes. The shop featured Specialized. I was looking at a Specialized Allez and it happened to be a 9 speed drivetrain.

    A young man came over and asked if I needed help and almost before I could tell him what I was actually there for he began reciting a canned spiel about how 9 speed is now obsolete and his shop is only recommending that people go with 10 speed. I didn't have the heart to ask him how he was going to sell the 9 speed bike with that attitude.

    I also didn't have the heart to tell him that I have a bike from the early '70s, maybe older than his parents, and I'm still able to find parts! Geesh!

  6. #31
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    If you are nervous about cold setting a rear triangle a handful of millimeters wider, think about how curved forkblades get that curve.

  7. #32
    Senior Member custermustache's Avatar
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    Happy to help. That article gets a lot of hits.

  8. #33
    Senior Member himespau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by custermustache View Post
    Happy to help. That article gets a lot of hits.
    Thanks, I really think I might give that a try. Looks like your method keeps the dropouts in alignment too.
    Punctuation is important. It's the difference between "I helped my uncle, Jack, off a horse" and "I helped my uncle Jack off a horse"


  9. #34
    Fahrrad Mama kiwigem's Avatar
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    Of course, now I see that the Sturmey Archer s80 comes in a 120. Wonder if those things are still wimpy? Can't find a recent review. Another thread maybe soon. . .

    Anyway- helpful article, custer. Thanks!

  10. #35
    Senior Member jeirvine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
    I mount the frame in a bench vise at the bb with wood planks and move each stay independently. If I have to change from 120mm to 132.5 I move each stay 6mm then set the alignment of the dropouts.
    Any tips on setting the dropout alignment without special tools?
    The man who dies with the most toys…is dead. - Rootboy

  11. #36
    afraid of whales Mr IGH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeirvine View Post
    Any tips on setting the dropout alignment without special tools?
    I can't imagine how to do it without a set of dropout alignment tools. Anything over about 5mm re-set total (2.5mm per side) and the dropouts need re-alignment. I bought a set of Park dropout alignment tools for < $90 shipped.

  12. #37
    Senior Member himespau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elcraft View Post
    Himespau, since we are lucky enough to have such a resource, why not take your bare frame to Harris Cyclery in West Newton. They are entusiastic about older quality frames and making them usable with newer componentry. Since you are car free, I could help you get the frame to Harris if you need to. PM me if you are interested

    Thanks for the offer. I've been thinking about heading over there some time. Not sure how long of a ride it would be, but I need a couple of odds and ends (dropout adaptor claws, bb accordion thingy) that I could pick up at my lbs, but I figured if I make it over there I could buy from them as a thanks for all the reading of Sheldon's site I've done. I think I'll give custermustache's method a try though as I'm the sort that likes to do as much as possible myself even though it takes 3x as long that way.
    Punctuation is important. It's the difference between "I helped my uncle, Jack, off a horse" and "I helped my uncle Jack off a horse"


  13. #38
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by busdriver1959 View Post
    If you are nervous about cold setting a rear triangle a handful of millimeters wider, think about how curved forkblades get that curve.
    2:10 for the fork blades
    3:15 for the.....main frame alignment?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0pUiy_TLk8

    [yt]=Z0pUiy_TLk8[/yt]
    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  14. #39
    Senior Member himespau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeirvine View Post
    Any tips on setting the dropout alignment without special tools?
    If you follow custermustache's method, can you just put a couple of extra washers on the other side of the dropout and then tighten nuts out there until the dropout is flush with the allthread? I ask because I have no idea whether it'd work or not.
    Punctuation is important. It's the difference between "I helped my uncle, Jack, off a horse" and "I helped my uncle Jack off a horse"


  15. #40
    Gone World Hepster 23skidoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeirvine View Post
    Any tips on setting the dropout alignment without special tools?
    I take the frame into my lbs along with a rear wheel and my ace wrencher takes about five minutes to align the dropouts and the der hanger for $10 or often as not, a 'catch you later when you've got some real work'. I see the der adjusting tool on CL for sale more than the DO adjusters.
    77 Trek TX300--78 Trek TX-300--79 Trek 510--83 Trek 520--83 Nickel Plated Trek 400--86 Trek Elance 400--75 Gitane Interclub--73 Viscount 'Death Fork SS--76 Viscount Aerospace Pro--80's Diamant Verbinnen--80's Basso--90's Montagner SS--84 SR Explorer MTB

  16. #41
    Senior Member Oldpeddaller's Avatar
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    Nothing to be frightened of here, Folks!

    Firstly, a 126mm OLN hub set up should squeeze right into the120mm rear of a Holdsworth Mistral with only a little flexing of the stays and no great drama. Even better if you can slim down the axle spacers a bit to help (thinner lock nuts, washers etc).

    Cold setting to widen or reduce the clearance between the rear stays of a bike frame is far from difficult, in fact probably TOO easy - it doesn't take much pressure at all to make a large difference. I've done it two ways, with a 4X2 timber and with a piece of all thread and washers and both work fine, if anything the timber is quicker, more effective and easier to control - but that's only my experience. Both ways work - to widen or to reduce the clearance.

    The important thing is to check the frame with string before starting - you'd be surprised how many frames are already 1mm out on one side or the other before you touch them! This can be taken into account and therefore corrected when making the alteration. Go slowly and measure frequently to ensure the drop outs are positioned an equal distance from the frame centre line.

    Once the desired measurement is achieved (on some frames it's necessary to go beyond the exact measurement as the tubes spring back a little when released), always check the drop out alignment to ensure both slots are parallel with the centre line. The Park tool for this is a little expensive for something that's rarely used by amateurs. I improvise this by using two solid rear spindles, bolted into the drop out slots so that the ends of the spindles meet at the centre line between the drop outs. Each is held in place with two nuts and two washers as per Custermustache's threaded bar.

    By placing an axle cone on the 'inside end' of each with the thick end facing the other spindle, it's easy to see if the gap between these cones is even. If not, it's clear which drop out needs to be realigned and in which direction. By placing a tube on the outside end of that spindle (outside the drop out) and applying pressure, the errant cone can be observed to line up properly. Job done!
    Last edited by Oldpeddaller; 01-11-12 at 01:38 PM. Reason: error
    Oldpeddaller - The older I get, the better I used to be !!!" ***** If at first you don't succeed - hit it with a hammer.

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  17. #42
    Senior Member
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    http://timmcgivern.wordpress.com/200...bicycle-tools/

    Scroll down to the bottom of the page for some home made dropout alignment tools. I don't know how sturdy the eye bolts would be though. I'm all for having my shop align the dropouts then checking the dérailleur hanger at the same time.. Probably the easiest repair of the day.

  18. #43
    Senior Member Oldpeddaller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbruening80 View Post
    http://timmcgivern.wordpress.com/200...bicycle-tools/

    Scroll down to the bottom of the page for some home made dropout alignment tools. I don't know how sturdy the eye bolts would be though. I'm all for having my shop align the dropouts then checking the dérailleur hanger at the same time.. Probably the easiest repair of the day.
    Hey, thanks for that link - Good idea to use copper for a head set cup remover!
    Oldpeddaller - The older I get, the better I used to be !!!" ***** If at first you don't succeed - hit it with a hammer.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  19. #44
    Senior Member himespau's Avatar
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    Does all thread only come in one diameter? If not, what diameter do you use?
    Punctuation is important. It's the difference between "I helped my uncle, Jack, off a horse" and "I helped my uncle Jack off a horse"


  20. #45
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    One of my bikes uses a wider wheel than intended, and I haven't cold set it. Another bike of mine has been cold set. It's not a big decision. If, by squeezing a wide wheel in or by cold setting inaccurately, your stays are not perfectly centered, it doesn't really matter. You won't feel it.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
    Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

  21. #46
    Senior Member
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    It does come in different diameters, use either 5/16 or 3/8 diameter

  22. #47
    Senior Member Hoss Cartright's Avatar
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    All these years I've been putting 126mm 6 and 7 speed upgrades into old 120mm 5-speed frames and spreading the frame apart with my thumbs.. Hmm? For some reason I always thought it was no big deal to open the thing 3mm on each side.. Oh, my poor Paramounts! Oh my poor Super LeTour.. Yiikes! I learn something every day..
    This week I'm going to quiz two famous frame builders and a couple of unbiased pro mechanics I know. Just to hear what they have to say.
    This has been an interesting read, I can't wait to see how it ends.
    '72 MERCIAN VINCITORE ~ MY PARAMOUNTS - '72 P15-9, '72 Chrome P13-9, & '73 P10-9 ~ '87 all 'Campy' Cannondale Team Comp ~ '95 Bob Jackson ~ '04 Cannondale R600

  23. #48
    Can'tre Member 3alarmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldpeddaller View Post
    Hey, thanks for that link - Good idea to use copper for a head set cup remover!
    Use steel electrical conduit in the appropriate diameter......lasts longer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrierman View Post
    No wonder everybody hates you.

  24. #49
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    Can anyone help me? I have a Scania frame that somebody bent the rear triangle to fit 6-speed, and I'm told that the bike is worth more with the original 5-speed freewheel, and cottered steel cranks. What is the best method for bending the stays back to the 120mm axle? Right now it looks like a Serotta back there.

  25. #50
    Fahrrad Mama kiwigem's Avatar
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    Sooo, the result of all this hand wringing is. . . I just had a lightbulb go off in my pea brain. I grabbed my tape measure, ran downstairs to the frame, and- wait for it- the damned thing has ALREADY BEEN COLD SET!!! Genius, I am.

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