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Old 01-25-12, 04:28 PM   #1
burcak
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PINARELLO frame identification.. Help Needed!

Hello Folks,

I have a not so easy case in hand I think (well it may be easy for the knowledgeable people, not for me right now..) I’ve just bought a Pinarello frame which is, as the seller told, a Montello from 1985. And at the time I bought it I did not have so much info on them and it sure looks like a Montello. (most paint on the frame is stripped by the seller to prepare for a repaint, so nearly no decals to see). However after some extensive research now I have serious doubts. First of all, as far as I understand the Montellos were only built from SLX tubing, however looking through the seattube there’s no spirals indicating to SLX, and on the Pinarello catalogs between 85-89 Montellos are all shown with bare chromed stays, however mine are painted (although the frame is fully chromed). Otherwise all the details are matching. (photos below..)

Other details: Rear spacing is 128 (Not 126 or not 130 either) The only remains of any decals are; what may be part of a white "O" on the RHS of top tube close to the head lug which can be easily flaked off by fingernails (Can be seen in a closeup photo) And at the foremost top side of bottom tube; presumably the tip of the "leaf-frame" around the writings to celebrate the victories of 84 or 88 etc can be seen. (That is a vinyl sticker different than the "O" material on top. And no clear coat on both) The SR groupset from the bike was dated as 85. But the fork not being original makes me think that it might have been rebuilt at some point. What remains of the paint job is quite nice and seemed original to me.

After some more research I have seen some photos of Treviso's from early 90's which matches quite well with the frame I have, in detail and paint scheme.
http://hilarystone.com/frameset2.html
Look towards the mid section you'll see the 93 Treviso.
That's a probable conclusion too, but still I'm not sure..

I have not yet received any feedback from the seller, about how he concluded that this is a Montello (I cannot easily say he was mistaken right away, because he is a really keen collectionist.)

Meanwhile I wanted to ask your ideas guys. The most important question is;
Does anyone know if Montellos were produced in any other tubing than SLX? (Other than the early models of 82/83. They are painted differently)

I want to restore this bike to its original condt. So identifying it is important for me. I'd really appreciate some help. Here are the photos;

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...599resize.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...600resize.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...98resizez.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...601resize.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...603resize.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...604resize.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...605resize.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...606resize.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...607resize.jpg/

Thanks in advance..
Burcak
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Old 01-25-12, 04:35 PM   #2
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There is little I can tell from the pictures but I can offer a look at my Pinarello Trevisio. Full Columbus SL with Campy drops and eight speed Brifter Campy group. Nice bicycle but too small for me. In fact, one of the best built bicycles I have ever run across...
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Old 01-25-12, 04:59 PM   #3
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Why did someone attack it with a razor blade? was this some kind of torture to get it to tell what model it was?

it looks like it was a nice bike once



Generally chrome that has been painted over is not meant to be seen, it is used as a sort of super primer.
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Old 01-25-12, 05:00 PM   #4
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The bridgeless bottom bracket shell and internal brake cable routing are indicative of a Montello. The helical ridges in a SLX seat tube only extend about 150mm up from the BB shell and they're only 0.35mm thick by 3.5mm wide, so I'm not suprised you couldn't see them looking down the seat tube. Try looking into the BB shell with a strong light or stick your finger in and feel for them. If you want a reference for what you're looking/feeling for, the same ridges are used inside the bottom of the fork's steering column.
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Old 01-25-12, 07:43 PM   #5
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^+1 The rifling in the SLX seat tube is easier to feel than see. And...the little leaf-shaped gussets with the "GPT" engravings that flank the joint between the seat tube and the BB shell (best seen in your second photo) are another Montello hallmark.
The caps of the seat stays at the joints with the seat lug look right also.
You have yourself the genuine article. Whatever it costs you to repaint it, it's worth it.
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Old 01-25-12, 08:29 PM   #6
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It's a Montello. Very nice frame to have.

the investment cast bottom bracket and lack of chainstay bridge mean it is not a Treviso but the higher level Montello. As T-Mar has already said.

Whatever you do, DO NOT powdercoat this frame.

Yes, chrome that is not glossy was originally painted over. My 1984-ish Treviso is totally chromed but the chrome only looks good where it was meant to be shown.
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Old 01-25-12, 09:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbattle View Post
It's a Montello. Very nice frame to have.

the investment cast bottom bracket and lack of chainstay bridge mean it is not a Treviso but the higher level Montello. As T-Mar has already said. ...
But note that the '93 Treviso on the Hilary Stone website linked in Burcak's original post also lacks a chainstay bridge and has internal cable routing. I've never seen a Treviso without a bridge so if someone had tried to pass that one off as a Montello I might have been fooled, since that has always been my "first-glance" test. But it doesn't have the gusset at the bottom bracket, so Treviso it is, as labelled.
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Old 01-25-12, 09:54 PM   #8
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Here's my '97 Pinarello Vuelta, a more modern bike. I agree with the others.....you have a very nice frame there.



















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Old 01-26-12, 07:43 AM   #9
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Thanks a lot for all the opinions and photos!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
it looks like it was a nice bike once
Yes it was I suppose.. and will be again The attack on the paint was done with a grinder actually! Still as vulgar..

I am quite positive that there are no spirals inside the seattube; the last photo I’ve added shows it to some extent, I’ve checked it with stronger light and finger too.. Also the seller too said it was built from SL tubes as far as he remembered (but still not being very sure) when I bought the frame. So if anyone owns or knows a Montello made of SL, this may be a Montello. Otherwise an early 90s Treviso possibility still stays on.

Yes, the bridgeless BB, inner brake cable routing were unique to Montello in the 80s. But as far as I understand what was used on the top class Pino model in 80’s made its way to the lower model later on, as usual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by randyjawa View Post
There is little I can tell from the pictures but I can offer a look at my Pinarello Trevisio.
This is getting more and more confusing; looking at your Treviso and the 93 Treviso frame on Hilary Stone website I have noticed some more differences to mine; yes the gussets on the BB are not there on both. (But a similar BB shell is present on this 97 Vuelta?) Especially the connection of seatstays to seatlug on my frame is reminiscent of the Montello. On none of the Trevisos I’ve seen this detail.

Any ideas from the serial no? HH345

I’d appreciate any more photos and info that might give some idea.. These were really helpful!
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Old 01-26-12, 10:27 AM   #10
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I really don't think this is a later Treviso or whatever. The critical details are the Campagnolo dropouts and lack of a pump peg. The bridgeless Treviso use the later Pinarello branded dropouts and have a pump peg. I'm not sure exactly when the Pinarello dropouts were first used, but they were in place by 1989 and the Treviso still used a chainstay bridge that year. Pump pegs where in place by 1986. So, the OP's bicycle should be pre-1986. The OP's bicycle also does not appear to have a second set of bottle bosses and, if true, that would further corroborate the era.

The only other Pinarello that I'm aware of from pre-1985 that used the internal brake cable routing are the ARCO LA84, Prestige S and Tre Cime. The ARCO LA84 definitely did not use the bridgeless bottom bracket shell and had the easily recognized, oval SL tubing, so it's definitely ruled out. I'm not sure if the Prestige S and Tre Cime had the bridgeless bottom bracket shell, but I doubt it, as it's not mentioned in the catalogs, yet it was a highlighted feature in all the catalogs featuring the Montello.

So what does the OP have? It could be a factory error. Somebody grabbed the wrong tubes (I'd still want the OP to feel inside the down tube, chain stays and calibrate his finger on the steerer, just to be sure). It could also be custom. Finally, it could be a spec unique to the distributor/importer, if it's a non-USA market frameset.
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Old 01-27-12, 02:17 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
I really don't think this is a later Treviso or whatever. The critical details are the Campagnolo dropouts and lack of a pump peg. The bridgeless Treviso use the later Pinarello branded dropouts and have a pump peg. I'm not sure exactly when the Pinarello dropouts were first used, but they were in place by 1989 and the Treviso still used a chainstay bridge that year. Pump pegs where in place by 1986. So, the OP's bicycle should be pre-1986. The OP's bicycle also does not appear to have a second set of bottle bosses and, if true, that would further corroborate the era.

The only other Pinarello that I'm aware of from pre-1985 that used the internal brake cable routing are the ARCO LA84, Prestige S and Tre Cime. The ARCO LA84 definitely did not use the bridgeless bottom bracket shell and had the easily recognized, oval SL tubing, so it's definitely ruled out. I'm not sure if the Prestige S and Tre Cime had the bridgeless bottom bracket shell, but I doubt it, as it's not mentioned in the catalogs, yet it was a highlighted feature in all the catalogs featuring the Montello.

So what does the OP have? It could be a factory error. Somebody grabbed the wrong tubes (I'd still want the OP to feel inside the down tube, chain stays and calibrate his finger on the steerer, just to be sure). It could also be custom. Finally, it could be a spec unique to the distributor/importer, if it's a non-USA market frameset.
Thanks a lot! These are good and solid info; interesting details to know.. and these at least clarify the era.
Yes, I have once again checked the inside of the seattube and chainstay, visually and by finger.. Ready to be convinced by any evidence of a slight protrusion But still.. nothing at all. Also the paint-work remains a question mark?
After you mention about the other possible models I've made a quick check.. See this '84 Prestige S, identical to mine except the BB shell:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qoSjF4NTrs
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Old 01-27-12, 07:35 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burcak View Post
See this '84 Prestige S, identical to mine except the BB shell
It appears the bike in the video runs the shift cables internally, evidenced by braze-ons just below the shifters on the downtube....another difference, when compared to your frame.
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Old 01-27-12, 08:49 AM   #13
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Yes, the bridgeless BB, inner brake cable routing were unique to Montello in the 80s. But as far as I understand what was used on the top class Pino model in 80’s made its way to the lower model later on, as usual.

Youre right, my '98 Pinarello Asolo (mid - range model) has those features.
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Old 01-27-12, 10:07 AM   #14
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It could be a gavia IMO, the only thing that doesnt match the Gavia is that the gavia has a real logo in the front tube not a decal, some pinarello's come with decals in the front tube. Cant see any holes so I assume your came with a decal??

The other thing that doesnt match the Gavia i had is the chroming in the seatstay/seat tube joint area, that cap doesnt have chrome in the gavia i had.

With pinarello is so hard to guess sometimes because besides the geometry all the bikes were identical in colors and chromings
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Old 01-27-12, 04:12 PM   #15
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I think the Gavia used TSX rifled tubing.
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Old 01-27-12, 08:14 PM   #16
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The gavia i had was just plain SL. Some stuff is pretty inconsistent with some manufacturers once u take the paint off heheheh
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Old 01-29-12, 10:39 AM   #17
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I've just got some feedback from the seller confirming that the decals of the bike were original. Actually the reason for stripping the paint was flaking decals underneath the clearcoat as he told me before. And he sent me this example of how the bicycle looked like as he got it. Well everything matches one to one with this one. So I will settle down with this I guess
http://www.velociao.com/2011/pinarello-montello-1983/

Thank you all for all the info and contribution once again!
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Old 01-29-12, 11:38 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burcak View Post
I've just got some feedback from the seller confirming that the decals of the bike were original. Actually the reason for stripping the paint was flaking decals underneath the clearcoat as he told me before. And he sent me this example of how the bicycle looked like as he got it. Well everything matches one to one with this one. So I will settle down with this I guess
http://www.velociao.com/2011/pinarello-montello-1983/

Thank you all for all the info and contribution once again!
That's most definitely a beautiful bike.
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