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Old 01-26-12, 12:27 PM   #1
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Kind of curious about the GT bike triple triangle thing...

...anybody able to educate me on these? I've read some prior postings that indicated the 2000 and earlier frames were very stiff and fairly well made. Most of what's out there seems to be about their BMX heritage, but I know they were an Olympic supplier (neat paint jobs) and the Lotto team rode their bikes about 10-12 years ago.

What models (if any) are desireable/better than others? I've seen at least two titanium ones out there- opinions?

Discuss!
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Old 01-26-12, 12:42 PM   #2
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The Triple triangle was meant to equal a stiffer rear end, but is really more of a USP / marketing point to differentiate them from everyone else.

For what's desirable, road or MTB, they really don't have a road heritage, it's MTB. or BMX where they started.

For Ti, there was the Xixang which was their premium made in USA Ti MTB frame, with the Lighting which was the made in Taiwan version, both these were pre Pacific & Doral days. The Zaskar is their high end alu MTB, with the Psyclone the high end chromo, however the Zasker name is now applied to a lot of their line up now.

Someone else more knowledgeable can give some info on their road range, but their current range only spec's up to 105 bikes, which are nothing special.
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Old 01-26-12, 01:27 PM   #3
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GT Edge came in steel, aluminum and titanium variants

I vaguely remember there being another road model, can't remember it's name.
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Old 01-26-12, 01:32 PM   #4
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There was the short lived ZRX cyclocross bike.
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Old 01-26-12, 01:39 PM   #5
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There were quite a lot throughout the 90s; edge, fury, force and strike which was polished aluminum if I remember.
I found a Force 6061 AL frame in a dumpster once behind a bike shop and used it for a few years, it was surprisingly alright. The triple triangle didn't add much extra stiffness, I rode it with friction shifting the first year and under sprints I can get the rear derailleur ghost shifting a bit.
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Old 01-26-12, 02:55 PM   #6
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It's essentially 'shortening' the rear triangle to achieve a stiffer rear end. This is done by altering the contact points of the seat stays. There is a small weight penalty. But the added brazing is supposed to stiffen the frame at the seat cluster. IMO, the better idea was Cannondale's cantilevered dropout for reducing the rear triangle geometry. And we know how stiff the 2.8's were.

Others have pointed out that this design has been done before and is called a hellenic frame.

There used to also be an Aero Edge TT bike. I have its carbon fiber fork somewhere in the garage. (Hmmm, maybe I'll mount it onto my Cannondale)

Oh, here's my Tequesta...


GT Tequesta-2 by WNG555, on Flickr

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Old 01-26-12, 03:02 PM   #7
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I'd love to have an old bike with hellenic stays. Check out this example of a new take on an old design.

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Old 01-26-12, 03:49 PM   #8
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I had a Shogun that was a triple triangle, and currently have a GT Saddleback that is.
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Old 01-26-12, 04:05 PM   #9
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My sons mountain bike is a GT Timberline and it's really pretty nice and very light compared to other stuff it's age.
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Old 01-26-12, 04:29 PM   #10
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I use a GT Force with RSX for my road commuter bike - I'll have to find a photo.
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Old 01-26-12, 04:37 PM   #11
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I met some englishmen a few months ago and one of them rode a really nice orange GT MTB converted to a comfort touring rig. Brooks, fenders, panniers and front bag. He said that the frame was really stiff, even with all the gear he had for an extended trip and his admittedly large gut!

I'm curious about a triple triangle after a few GT's too.
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Old 01-26-12, 04:40 PM   #12
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I would like to get my hands on a GT road bicycle. Until recently, I paid little heed to the brand, but then I found this GT Timberline at the Dump...


...and a friend of my father-in-law gave me a GT Windstream...

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Old 01-26-12, 05:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimc101 View Post
The Triple triangle was meant to equal a stiffer rear end, but is really more of a USP / marketing point to differentiate them from everyone else.

For what's desirable, road or MTB, they really don't have a road heritage, it's MTB. or BMX where they started.

For Ti, there was the Xixang which was their premium made in USA Ti MTB frame, with the Lighting which was the made in Taiwan version, both these were pre Pacific & Doral days. The Zaskar is their high end alu MTB, with the Psyclone the high end chromo, however the Zasker name is now applied to a lot of their line up now.

Someone else more knowledgeable can give some info on their road range, but their current range only spec's up to 105 bikes, which are nothing special.
I think the Triple Triangle or Hellenic stays go back to the '20s or '30s and was likely a design to make the bike reconizable at a distance like the Hetchins "Vibrant Stays".

this is a '69 sexxy eh?



http://www.hetchins.org/504vm-02.htm
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Old 01-26-12, 06:18 PM   #14
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The only thing I can tell about all those GT track with triple triangle is that GT should have finished those frames better, the welding was so ugly that even tho i know are good bikes the ugliness of the welding just turn me off completely, specially in the drop outs, like saying... "ok we teach you to weld 5 minutes ago so just practice welding all this track frames ok?". Why in the world they did not braze them?? Cost maybe??

The road ones had way better finish and I'm still trying to locate one of those lotto ones, heard the ride is shwweeett...
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Old 01-26-12, 06:44 PM   #15
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I think the Triple Triangle or Hellenic stays go back to the '20s or '30s and was likely a design to make the bike reconizable at a distance like the Hetchins "Vibrant Stays".

this is a '69 sexxy eh?



http://www.hetchins.org/504vm-02.htm
What makes you think that either was intended to make the bike recognizable at a distance? I'm not aware of any evidence to suggest this. On the contrary, I believe it perpetuates an oft-repeated vintage bike myth.

Last edited by Picchio Special; 01-26-12 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 01-26-12, 06:47 PM   #16
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The coolio thing to note about the "Hellenic" stays in the context of steel frames in particular is that it required real skill to braze the stays forward of the butted section of the top tube without overheating the tube.
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Old 01-26-12, 07:19 PM   #17
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What makes you think that either was intended to make the bike recognizable at a distance? I'm not aware of any evidence to suggest this. On the contrary, I believe it perpetuates an oft-repeated vintage bike myth.
Well Well Well this seems to be slightly true. I was just poking about the Historic Hetchins site and ran across a barely readable copy of the patent application where it is claimed that they are for shock dampening.

However it seems that the ID thing was indeed thought to be the reason track riders then used the curly stays.

Fred Hellens develpoed the Hellenic stay design in 1923. so atleast I was close to
being right about something LOL
http://www.hetchins.org/403.htm

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The coolio thing to note about the "Hellenic" stays in the context of steel frames in particular is that it required real skill to braze the stays forward of the butted section of the top tube without overheating the tube.
Check these out the frame on the link above.
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Old 01-26-12, 07:22 PM   #18
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I'd love to have an old bike with hellenic stays. Check out this example of a new take on an old design.

is this a old bike or new bike built to look old? there may be a patent infringment here
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Old 01-26-12, 07:31 PM   #19
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is this a old bike or new bike built to look old? there may be a patent infringment here
Its newish, Bilenky Hetchins Tribute.
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Old 01-26-12, 07:38 PM   #20
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Well Well Well this seems to be slightly true. I was just poking about the Historic Hetchins site and ran across a barely readable copy of the patent application where it is claimed that they are for shock dampening.

However it seems that the ID thing was indeed thought to be the reason track riders then used the curly stays.

Fred Hellens develpoed the Hellenic stay design in 1923. so atleast I was close to
being right about something LOL
http://www.hetchins.org/403.htm



Check these out the frame on the link above.
The vibrant stays actually predate the Hetchins marque - in fact, so the story goes, Hyman Hetchins saw one of Jack Denny's bikes in Jack's shop window and decided they were marketable, leading to their longtime partnership. The myth relates to rules about makers advertising by way of frame decals, but this post-dates many of the famous distinctive British frame designs, including both the vibrant stays and the hellenic design.
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Old 01-26-12, 08:47 PM   #21
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Here is a TT Shogun

http://philadelphia.ebayclassifieds....a/?ad=16274241
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Old 01-27-12, 03:34 PM   #22
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Am I getting this right? The Hellenic stays help to stiffen the rear triangle and the curly stays help to soften the rear triangle? I'm confused.
Pretty bike, anyway.
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Old 01-27-12, 03:37 PM   #23
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As I understand it, the "curly" stays do nothing but look cool.
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Old 01-27-12, 04:19 PM   #24
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As I understand it, the "curly" stays do nothing but look cool.
You'll get no argument from me

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Old 01-27-12, 05:20 PM   #25
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Everything else remaining constant (especially tubing cross section), curly stays will be more compliant than straight ones. To the extent that they are more compliant, they will also be weaker, so it could be that curly stays are made more massive to compensate.
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