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  1. #1
    "Bike Boom" Addict Frogbutter's Avatar
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    Pronunciation of Bottecchia?

    Can somebody in the know break down Bottecchia phonetically for me?

    Bow tek ia (accent on the tek) is how I have always pronounced it, but I heard it pronounced a different way today. I'm not sure he knew what he was talking about.

    Thanks,
    Cory
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    Senior Member Ed in Toronto's Avatar
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    Here's your answer, straight from Bottecchia;
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC31BnQfLW0

  3. #3
    Senior Member bibliobob's Avatar
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    I think that you basically have it correct.
    I grow old, I grow old. I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled.

  4. #4
    "Bike Boom" Addict Frogbutter's Avatar
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    Thank you both...yes that's how I pronounce Bottecchia, now I don't feel bad about not knowing what he was talking about and asking him to repeat himself.
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    Senior Member Ed in Toronto's Avatar
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    I've heard some people try to pronounce it 'bought-a-cheea'. Because of that, I was unsure of how to pronounce it myself when I was young, even though I had a Bottecchia.

  6. #6
    It's MY mountain DiabloScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed in Toronto View Post
    Here's your answer, straight from Bottecchia;
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC31BnQfLW0
    The C&V version:
    http://diabloscott.blogspot.com/

  7. #7
    "Bike Boom" Addict Frogbutter's Avatar
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    Wow! I need captions.
    1988 Eddy Merckx Corsa-Extra Team Hitachi
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Chombi's Avatar
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    It's similar to how you pronounce the name of the famous Italian painter "Botticelli" but with an short e instead of an i in the middle and think Chia-pet at the end!

    Chombi

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    Senior Member old_dreams's Avatar
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    I would have pronounced it as Bow-Teh-Chia and the video guy does the same at one point. Need to ask an Italian.

    also Bow as in Bow-and-tie.

    Edit: It seems the Italian has spoken. Bow-tek-ia it is.
    Last edited by old_dreams; 01-27-12 at 05:37 PM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member rootboy's Avatar
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    Next: CIOCC. clear your throat and choke at the same time.

  11. #11
    . bbattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
    The C&V version:
    Skip ahead to the 7 min mark to FINALLY see some bicycles.

  12. #12
    "Chooch" ciocc_cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
    Next: CIOCC. clear your throat and choke at the same time.
    Got you covered. Listen how Signore Giovanni "Ciocc" Pelizzoli pronounces his famous nickname:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJHwPqn2jY0
    "A bicycle built by a frame builder has the soul of the builder. A mass produced frame does not have soul. It doesn't know anyone." - Giovanni "Ciocc" Pelizzoli.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciocc_cat View Post
    Got you covered. Listen how Signore Giovanni "Ciocc" Pelizzoli pronounces his famous nickname:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJHwPqn2jY0
    Thanks! Did you check in with this over at that recent Ciocc thread?

    I always seem to mis-spell Sig. Pelizzoli's name. I pledge to do better from now on with that!

    Grazie,

  14. #14
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    "BOW-TECK-KEY-YA" would get you very close.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Citoyen du Monde's Avatar
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    The documentary is great fun to listen to.

    because there are two "T"s and two "C"s in Bottecchia, using standard Italian pronunciation you should pronounce Bot-teck-key-ya with the accent being placed on the second syllable. In Italian whenever you have a "C" or a "G" that is followed by the vowels "A", "O" and "U", teh "C" or "G" becomes hard. IN words followed by an "H" it becomes a hard "C" or "G", hence Spaghetti being pronounces with a hard "G", whereas words with a C or G followed by an "I" or and "E" are pronounced with a soft C or G.

  16. #16
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    The problem with english is the O... the o sounds "ow"... the O is just a plain O like in the word jOb

  17. #17
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    This is a good thread to have bookmarked-

    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ce-that-thread.

  18. #18
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    The Italian "o" can be either "open" or "closed" (the English equivalent of "short" or "long" as in "box" versus "bow"). Unfortunately you can't tell if the "o" sound is long or short by the simply noting whether it's followed by a single or double consonant. You might want any "o" followed by two consonants as in "Botticelli" to be a short o, but it ain't that simple. There's a lot of regional variation. "Bottechia" could be pronounced BOW-TEC-KEY-AH or BOT-TEC-KEY-AH. I'd defer to how Mr. Bottechia pronounces his family name. I have an Italian surname that ends in "-zzoli" (just like a famous bike builder there) and I heard may name pronounced a couple of different way by native speakers, depending on the regions they were in. Northerners tend to use an open "o" in Botticelli, whereas Southerners tend to pronounce it with a closed (or "long" o. For what that's worth.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Citoyen du Monde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neurocop View Post
    The Italian "o" can be either "open" or "closed" (the English equivalent of "short" or "long" as in "box" versus "bow"). Unfortunately you can't tell if the "o" sound is long or short by the simply noting whether it's followed by a single or double consonant. You might want any "o" followed by two consonants as in "Botticelli" to be a short o, but it ain't that simple. There's a lot of regional variation. "Bottechia" could be pronounced BOW-TEC-KEY-AH or BOT-TEC-KEY-AH. I'd defer to how Mr. Bottechia pronounces his family name. I have an Italian surname that ends in "-zzoli" (just like a famous bike builder there) and I heard may name pronounced a couple of different way by native speakers, depending on the regions they were in. Northerners tend to use an open "o" in Botticelli, whereas Southerners tend to pronounce it with a closed (or "long" o. For what that's worth.
    This is simply not the case. There is a "proper Italian" pronunciation that follows precise rules and then there are regionalisms which are dialects and not Italian. Nobody speaking Italian will pronounce Bottecchia without splitting the double consonants. It will simply never occur. BTW, my oldest daughter was born in Vittorio Veneto (the home of Bottecchia)

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citoyen du Monde View Post
    This is simply not the case. There is a "proper Italian" pronunciation that follows precise rules and then there are regionalisms which are dialects and not Italian. Nobody speaking Italian will pronounce Bottecchia without splitting the double consonants. It will simply never occur. BTW, my oldest daughter was born in Vittorio Veneto (the home of Bottecchia)
    There is ceratinly a "standard" Italian pronunciation, just as there is a "standard" English pronunciation...though it does vary between the English-speaking countries. My point was that Italian pronunciation does have regional variations, most marked between North and South. These pronunciation differences are not dialects. Regional Italian dialects are quite different from standard Italian as regards not only pronunciation but also vocabulary and syntax. The dialect of Emila-Romagna, for example, is heavily influenced by French (from the Court of the Duchess of Parma) and is totally incomprehensible to someone who speaks only standard Italian. The same goes for Napolitano.

    Folks from my ancestral town (in the hills outside Positano) would pronounce Bottechia as "Bow-Te-Key-Ah" even when speaking "standard
    Italian." Those from Veneto undoubtedly pronounce it differently. As I said in my post, I'm happy to defer to the way Signore Bottechia pronounces his own name.

    BTW, "standard Italian" is a fairly recent phenomenon. Italy was unified in the mid-19th Century and Italian wasn't "standardized" until the late-19th/early-20th Century. The standard Italian that emerged has been described as "Lingua Toscana in Boca Romana," which is to say, the Tuscan language (dialect) spoken with a Roman pronunciation. This is exactly the speech you hear if you tune into RAI TV...

    Many Italians who pronounce Italian differently might take offense at being told their speech is "not Italian."

  21. #21
    Senior Member Citoyen du Monde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neurocop View Post
    There is ceratinly a "standard" Italian pronunciation, just as there is a "standard" English pronunciation...though it does vary between the English-speaking countries. My point was that Italian pronunciation does have regional variations, most marked between North and South. These pronunciation differences are not dialects. Regional Italian dialects are quite different from standard Italian as regards not only pronunciation but also vocabulary and syntax. The dialect of Emila-Romagna, for example, is heavily influenced by French (from the Court of the Duchess of Parma) and is totally incomprehensible to someone who speaks only standard Italian. The same goes for Napolitano.

    Folks from my ancestral town (in the hills outside Positano) would pronounce Bottechia as "Bow-Te-Key-Ah" even when speaking "standard
    Italian." Those from Veneto undoubtedly pronounce it differently. As I said in my post, I'm happy to defer to the way Signore Bottechia pronounces his own name.

    BTW, "standard Italian" is a fairly recent phenomenon. Italy was unified in the mid-19th Century and Italian wasn't "standardized" until the late-19th/early-20th Century. The standard Italian that emerged has been described as "Lingua Toscana in Boca Romana," which is to say, the Tuscan language (dialect) spoken with a Roman pronunciation. This is exactly the speech you hear if you tune into RAI TV...

    Many Italians who pronounce Italian differently might take offense at being told their speech is "not Italian."
    As best as I know, I am the only one here on C+V who works as an Italian linguist. In fact, both my wife and I work as Italian linguists. Not only do we speak the language fluently, we also deal with Italian linguistics on a daily basis, we do so for Italian governmental bodies and many of the most prestigious Italian companies. My wife furthermore graduated at the very top of her class (summa *** laude) from the Università degli Studi di Padova in lingua e letteratura (One of the very best universities in Italy for linguistics). NO Italian, no matter where they come from, would ever neglect to divide double consonants when pronouncing a name. To say otherwise shows ignorance. So your suggested pronunciation Bow-Te-Key-Ah is simply wrong. All Italians will pronounce it bot-tek-key-ah with potential variations in pronunciation relating to openness of the vowels and the length of consonants, but not in how the name itself is broken down.

    As regards people being offended to be told that they do not speak Italian, this too is simple not the case. The only people who might possibly be offended are those who live outside of Italy and have never received an Italian education. People in Italy are blissfully aware of the regionalisms and happily embrace them. In fact most revel in the regional distinctions. You are more likely to find people insulted by being told they speak Italian than to be told that they don't speak Italian.

    BTW, when I first went to Naples in 1988, when my Italian language skills were still quite rudimentary, I was accompanied by three female friends, including one from Milan. I had no problems understanding the Neapolitan dialect, whereas my Milanese friend found it undecipherable. I have also not had any difficulties with the dialects of Emilia Romagna. The Friulan and Sardinian languages on the other hand are beyond me.

  22. #22
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    Whew! Glad we worked that one out. Next up: acheiving whirled peas.

  23. #23
    "Bike Boom" Addict Frogbutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 753proguy View Post
    Whew! Glad we worked that one out. Next up: acheiving whirled peas.
    Wow what have I done?
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by 753proguy View Post
    Whew! Glad we worked that one out. Next up: acheiving whirled peas.
    OK. For the sake of whirled peas and to bring us back to the real reason we read BF (to discuss bikes), I retract my comments about the pronunciation of Sig. Bottechia's name! Even though I grew up speaking standard and dialectical Italian quite fluently, have lived in Italy (for several years in the 1980's), and have a Laurea (not in linguistics but in a technical/scientific discipline) from the Universita degli Studi di Modena, I'll concede that I am not a certified "expert" in the Italian language.

  25. #25
    . bbattle's Avatar
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    My boss is Italian but from the Northern section that was part of Austria. Naturally, his first language is German. I'd repeat how he says Bottechia but it would make Citoyen's head explode.

    Being from Alabama, I pronounce it Bo-tech-ee-uh.

    Would anyone like my favorite collards recipe? The mention of whirled peas has made me hungry.

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