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Old 01-27-12, 11:43 PM   #1
jyl
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Various Questions About My First Ergopower Project - Confused

I'm confused about some things having to do with older Campagnolo Ergopower stuff. Can you guys clear me up?

Basically, I have a pile of parts that will hopefully turn into a bike this spring. I'm starting to worry that the parts won't work together, and am also wondering how to select the remaining parts I need to find. Indexing confuses me! Ergopower confuses me! I'm an old dog trying to learn new tricks.

Here are the parts I have. If there's anything random about the list, that's because some were given to me by a friend, others were picked up on eBay, others came from the used parts bins at the local bike co-op.

I'll ask my questions about each part in [brackets].

1. Brifter levers are Record Titanium, carbon bodies, the pointy-topped older style. I presume these are "early 9 speed". [Q: Are the "early 9 speed" levers functionally interchangeable with the later 9 speed levers that have the current brifter shape? Meaning, as far as the derailleurs, cassette, and hub splines go, early or late 9 speed is all the same? I will be able to swap these levers for a later 9 speed Ergopower brifter no problem?]
2. The right brifter came to me "slightly disassembled", with a note that I'd need to install the replacement G springs that also came with. Comparing the bits I have with Campagnolo's parts diagrams, it looked like I might be missing more than a G spring. Actually the lever looks like a gutted fish with its innards floating around in a ziplock baggie. So I picked up a pair of complete Athena 9 speed brifters, also pointy-topped with carbon "BB" bodies, in case I needed to cannibalize them for parts. [Q: Are parts interchangeable between Athena and Record early 9 speed brifters?]
3. The rear dérailleur is a Record Titanium 9 speed. [Q: There's no such thing as an "early 9" and "late 9" speed Campagnolo derailleur, is there? This will work fine with my brifters?]
4. The front derailleur is a Record 10 speed, braze on.
5. The brakes are Record, the ones just before the current skeleton brakes. Need a few bits (spring, spring saddle, cable clamp, recessed nut, etc) which either came with or I am getting.
6. The crank is Record 10 speed alloy, not Ultra Torque. [Q: I wanted a compact crank, for better climbing gearing, but wanted alloy rather than carbon. As far as I can tell, Campagnolo never made a compact crank in alloy, right? I may end up swapping this for a triple, or growing new legs.]
7. The cables, housings, etc - I bought a new Campagnolo set. [Q: The cables don't care if its a 9 speed or 8 or 10, right?]
8. The headset is integral to the frame.

Now, here are the bits I need to get. Same process, I'll put my questions in [brackets].

9. Still need bottom bracket.
10. Still need wheelset. I've been looking for a Record 9 speed silver hub / Mavic Open Pro rim / 32 or 36 hole / 3 cross wheelset, since I figure that will look vintage enough and hold my 185 lbs for many years. Kind of hard to find this combination, even used, at a reasonable price. [Q: Am I being too picky in thinking the current black, blocky Record hubs look all wrong on an older bike, even a mid-90s frame? I can use any 9-10-11 speed Record rear hub, right? If you were going to get wheels built in Portland OR, where would you go?]
11. Still need the cassette. To affordably get my desired gearing, which is not a racer's corncob, in the fairly old 9 speed variety, I'm leaning toward using Miche. [Q:,Are Miche of fine quality, good-shifting, as light as Record cassettes?]
12. I have a Cinelli quill stem, but am thinking a quill open-face stem would be handy. [Q: Any suggestions, that still look fairly classic, and aren't crazy spendy?]
13. Bars are going to be either something ergonomic or a classic Cinelli drop, haven't decided. Seat will be a Selle Italia Titanium Flite, needs recovering, currently on an old and very badly zig-zagged aero-era Chorus - has to be a 25.4mm so choice is limited, also thought about a Thomson, got outbid for everything else interesting. [Q: Was there ever a 25.4mm carbon seat post? My frame uses a grub screw to secure the seat post, maybe a carbon post is a bad idea anyway.]
14. Pedals are Ritchey Pro Micro Road. Really light for a SPD pedal. They say Ritchey pedals don't work with Shimano SPD 98A cleats, but mine seem to.

Thanks. Sorry for dumping a zillion little questions into one post. None of the questions seemed significant enough to deserve it's own post, so I decided to get them all out there at once.

Last edited by jyl; 01-28-12 at 10:01 AM. Reason: Clarity
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Old 01-28-12, 05:02 AM   #2
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I'll answer the best I can, and let more knowledgeble people correct me. That's the best way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jyl View Post
I'm confused about some things having to do with older Campagnolo Ergopower stuff. Can you guys clear me up?

1. Brifter levers are Record Titanium, carbon bodies, the pointy-topped older style. I presume these are "early 9 speed".

Q: Are the "early 9 speed" levers functionally interchangeable with the later 9 speed levers that have the current brifter shape? Meaning, as far as the derailleurs, cassette, and hub splines go, early or late 9 speed is all the same? I will be able to swap these levers for a later 9 speed Ergopower brifter no problem?

9-sp is 9-sp, but the rear hub/cassette, as far as the Ti goes, may need to be compatible. I think the Ti cassette/hub may have been different. I stand corrected below, I guess? I assumed 9-sp spacing on the cassette, RD movement, and cable pull would be the same. Am I wrong? Good to know stuff....

2. The right brifter came to me "slightly disassembled", with a note that I'd need to install the replacement G springs that also came with. Comparing the bits I have with Campagnolo's parts diagrams, it looked like I might be missing more than a G spring. Actually the lever looks like a gutted fish with its innards floating around in a ziplock baggie. So I picked up a pair of complete Athena 9 speed brifters, also pointy-topped with carbon "BB" bodies, in case I needed to cannibalize them for parts.

Q: Are parts interchangeable between Athena and Record early 9 speed brifters?

Springs, pins, etc should be. Some parts are different quality materials, but as far as I know, the same.

3. The rear dérailleur is a Record Titanium 9 speed.

Q: There's no such thing as an "early 9" and "late 9" speed Campagnolo derailleur, is there?
I don't know. I would assume 9-sp = 9-sp. Designed to move a chain across a 9-sp hub in increments based on the amount of cable pulled.

Q: This will work fine with my brifters?
As far as I know, Yes.

4. The front derailleur is a Record 10 speed, braze on. No problem.

5. The brakes are Record, the ones just before the current skeleton brakes. Need a few bits (spring, spring saddle, cable clamp, recessed nut, etc) which either came with or I am getting. Brakes is brakes.

6. The crank is Record 10 speed alloy, not Ultra Torque.
Q: I wanted a compact crank, for better climbing gearing, but wanted alloy rather than carbon. As far as I can tell, Campagnolo never made a compact crank in alloy, right?
Centaur made a square taper 110BCD crank. I see there were others, also.
Rings may be hard to come by, but FSA makes plenty of rings that fit.

7. The cables, housings, etc - I bought a new Campagnolo set.
Q: The cables don't care if its a 9 speed or 8 or 10, right?
Correct.

8. The headset is integral to the frame.

Now, here are the bits I need to get. Same process, I'll put my questions in [brackets].

9. Still need bottom bracket.
Will depend on the crankset. Chorus, Record will take a 102mm bb
Veloce, Centaur will take a 111mm, I believe. Not sure about Athena, Mirage or anything else.

10. Still need wheelset. I've been looking for a Record 9 speed silver hub / Mavic Open Pro rim / 32 or 36 hole / 3 cross wheelset, since I figure that will look vintage enough and hold my 185 lbs for many years. Kind of hard to find this combination, even used, at a reasonable price.

Q: Am I being too picky in thinking the current black, blocky Record hubs look all wrong on an older bike, even a mid-90s frame?
A matter of taste. Even 8-sp hubs can be upgraded in many cases.

Q: I can use any 9-10-11 speed Record rear hub, right?
I think so. I like the "older" 9-sp hubs, but a hub that works, works. Again, I think the only glitch was with a Ti cassette/Ti hub that had a fit issue with other parts, and that may have been 8-sp. Someone will correct me, or Sheldon will have it outlined.

Q: If you were going to get wheels built in Portland OR, where would you go?
I don't know. I'd go on BF and ask.

11. Still need the cassette. To affordably get my desired gearing, which is not a racer's corncob, in the fairly old 9 speed variety, I'm leaning toward using Miche.

Q: Are Miche of fine quality, good-shifting, as light as Record cassettes?
Record is better, but 2-3x as much. There are other brands, too.

12. I have a Cinelli quill stem, but am thinking a quill open-face stem would be handy.

Q: Any suggestions, that still look fairly classic, and aren't crazy spendy?
No help there, maybe a Cinelli frog, but I've only seen them in black.
I've seen other open-front quill stems here. Others here would know.

13. Bars are going to be either something ergonomic or a classic Cinelli drop, haven't decided. Seat will be a Selle Italia Titanium Flite, needs recovering, currently on an old and very badly zig-zagged aero-era Chorus - has to be a 25.4mm so choice is limited, also thought about a Thomson, got outbid for everything else interesting.

Q: Was there ever a 25.4mm carbon seat post?
I don't know; many prefer Thomsons to carbon posts.

14. Pedals are Ritchey Pro Micro Road. Really light for a SPD pedal. They say Ritchey pedals don't work with Shimano SPD 98A cleats, but mine seem to.

Thanks. Sorry for dumping a zillion little questions into one post. None of the questions seemed significant enough to deserve it's own post, so I decided to get them all out there at once.
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Last edited by RobbieTunes; 01-28-12 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 01-28-12, 07:05 AM   #3
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WOW, what a huge list. In a nutshell early nine sp derailleurs have different actuation ratio than the late model 9 & 10 sp. They don't play well together. Good luck.
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Old 01-28-12, 09:16 AM   #4
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Why don't you think your pointy Ergopower right hand lever is an 8-speed? That would change things.

There were several aluminum compact cranksets made by Campy: Veloce, Centaur, and I thought there may have been a Record, but not sure. The first two need a 111 mm BB while the Record if you find one needs 102 as has been said. A carbon Record compact is a super crankset, but a new 102 BB is an expensive item.

Seatposts: if you can find a Thomson that fits, get it. They are (check the numbers!!!) comparable in weight to most carbon and lighter than some, and the two-bolt saddle attachment allows you to do very fine adjustment of saddle angle and repeatible installations. And it's aluminum, which your vintage frame was designed for.
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Old 01-28-12, 09:57 AM   #5
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The lever blades say "Record Titanium 9 Speed", which is why I assume they are early 9 speed. Actually I like the current Ergopower shape better, but oh well.

As for the spendy bottom bracket, as far as I am concerned most every new Record part is expensive. I plan to find the bottom bracket used.

Thanks for the information on the Thomson. It may actually look better with my frame than the Chorus will, I think. And thanks for the actuation ratio information. I may retreat back to friction after this!

On the hubs . . . is there a way to tell from a eBay seller's pictures if a "9 speed" hub is early 9 or late 9? The splines must be different? I've run across some affordable older Record hubsets where the seller doesn't know much about them, no even the generation or year.
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Old 01-28-12, 10:07 AM   #6
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Rear hubs 9-10-11 speed compatible. 8 speed is different all together. So..if you find 10 or even 11 speed hubs, they'll work just fine. Just get a matching front hub.
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