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Old 02-01-12, 09:27 PM   #1
himespau 
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building up a vintage fuji mixte - so many questions: touch up paint, etc.

Hi,

I have a fuji gran touring se mixte frame (I thin 1980 or '81) that I'd like to build up for my wife. The part of scavenging parts to make it just the way I want it for the way she'll use it and planning it out is 90% done, so now I need to get to actually doing the work.

The first issue is the paint. (Actually, the first issue is cold setting the frame to take a modern wheel and 8 speed cassette, but I have that planned out using the allthread and nuts with washers method and am picking up the supplies tomorrow at the local Ace.)

So when I acquired the frame, the paint was in pretty bad shape and there was a fair bit of surface rust. A kindly member here (thanks 1eippo), soaked the frame in his oxalic acid bath to take care of the rust (and got out the fixed bb cup that bent my sheldon brown fixed cup remover bolt). But I still have paint in pretty bad shape. Now, my wife said she wouldn't mind riding a bike with some rust, but I'm not going for that. I'd like to at least get all the metal covered and protected. Powder coating is too expensive, and I like the colors/decals, so I just want to touch it up. I know it'll show that it's been touched up, but as long as it's covering the metal and a similar black, that'll be good. I'd like to do it as cost and time effective as possible, but I've never done this before.

Anyway, what I'm working with (no, I don't know what PO did to get it so bad, maybe wanted a new color and decided to take the old off with a razor blade?):







So that's what I'm starting with. Suggestions for the most cost (and labor) effective way to proceed? I'm assuming I'm going to need to lay down some primer and then several coats of flat black paint in the brown spots while using a high grit (how high?) sandpaper to sand down the edges and stroke marks. Any recommended type/brand/source for the flat black paint and primer? I'm assuming, the black wood paint I used to put borders and a chessboard on the coffee table my wife and I built won't work here. Most useful type of brush?
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Old 02-01-12, 09:32 PM   #2
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Next, the fork. As you can see, the paint is also damaged here (also, I couldn't get the fork crown race off the fork, will this be a problem?):




Under the paint, the whole fork appears to be chromed. Would I be better served to strip off the paint, or would it be better/easier to just touch it up?

Last edited by himespau; 02-01-12 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 02-01-12, 09:33 PM   #3
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I'd just get the rust off with some oxalic acid, barkeeper's friend or naval jelly and hit it with rust-oleum spray paint on a nice day outside and hang it in the attic or something to cure for a month or so. If you want to do it with a brush there is an excellent write-up somewhere on randyjawa's my ten speeds that has all lots of good tips. Put a few coats of wax on it regardless of what method you chose.
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Old 02-01-12, 09:36 PM   #4
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Then, there's a cable routing question. On the drive side above the bb shell there's a bracket to route the RD cable back.

On the non-drive side, there's just a cable stop.

How do I get the cable over to my FD and what do I do about the housing once it gets there? Do I need to get a clamp on cable stop and put it just below the FD?
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Old 02-01-12, 09:39 PM   #5
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I've got lots more questions about whether the corrosion on my headset can be polished off and about the quality of th centerpull brakes, but those will have to wait for the pictures to upload.
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Old 02-01-12, 09:42 PM   #6
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On the front derailleur the cable goes through the housing and the front derailleur will have a housing stop built in.
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Old 02-01-12, 09:48 PM   #7
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You could also consider doing a 1x8 setup or something like that if you don't have a FD with a built-in cable stop.
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Old 02-01-12, 09:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
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On the front derailleur the cable goes through the housing and the front derailleur will have a housing stop built in.
Do all FD's have a stop built in? I never noticed it on the bike I ride now (cable is routed under bb shell then straight up to FD I thought, but it's been a while and I'm on painkillers so my brain might be fuzzy). Do I just route from the stop around the seattube and up? Any pictures? Thanks.
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Old 02-01-12, 09:53 PM   #9
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How about this corrosion on the outside of my headset.

Will it polish out (recommended polishing cream?)? Or should I just buy a new headset?
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Old 02-01-12, 09:56 PM   #10
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Also, these are my brakes (came with bike).

Are they sufficient (assuming I get new pads), or do I want something more modern?

Finally (for tonight anyway), I was planning on replacing the bb with a cartridge bb that I have laying around. If the shell is 68 mm, it should be english thread and any 68 mm english thread shimano un-55 should work, right?
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Old 02-01-12, 10:33 PM   #11
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That Fuji probably came equipped with Suntour components.
Do you mean cable housing guide on non drive side?
Bottom pull FD with cable stop is what you need. Like this http://the-bici.com/index.php?_a=vie...productId=1336
Just make sure clamp dia fits seat tube.
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Old 02-01-12, 11:07 PM   #12
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That Fuji probably came equipped with Suntour components.
Do you mean cable housing guide on non drive side?
Bottom pull FD with cable stop is what you need. Like this http://the-bici.com/index.php?_a=vie...productId=1336
Just make sure clamp dia fits seat tube.
Thanks for the suggestion. If I can find a clamp on cablestop that fits shortly below the FD, can I just use any old FD that I have? I ask because I have a touring triple crankset I'd wanted to put on this and also already have the matching FD and didn't know if an older FD would work for it. Not necessarily tryin to build it up to original spec, but will if there's no other way.
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Old 02-02-12, 06:35 AM   #13
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I guess I should have stated (if anyone is curious) that I'm not really trying to go period correct here but only want to make reversible changes in case I want period correct later. Right now, the plan is to go with an upright townie style.

So a member here sold me his deore ls 3x8 speed shifters and derailleurs (berofe I noticed the cable stop) and I got a deore ls touring crankset off of ebay. To go with those, I got a soma mustache bar that's atb diameter so the shifters will fit and brake levers from VO. I got some cork tape (and some wine corks) that I'm going to wrap the bars with and shellac to match a honeybrown b72 like saddle. Got some cream colored sks longboard fenders from rivendell (and some hemp twine for finishing the bar wrap) which almost match the aged color of the decals. An aluminum and wood rear rack and some cheap pretty light yellow and black panniers (not the same cream color but complementary) from nashbar and it should all look pretty cute if I can get it going.
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Old 02-02-12, 07:01 AM   #14
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Go to Home Depot and buy Savogran Wood Bleach. It is a white tub with white oxalic acid crystals inside. A spoonful in a gallon of water will take the rust off your headset. If you have a tub large enough, it'll take the rust off your frame but I'd just sand and repaint the frame.

The chrome under the paint on the fork won't be polished; it was meant to be painted over.

It sounds like you'll have several hundred dollars into this bike. Been there; it's fun.
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Old 02-02-12, 09:10 AM   #15
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so most of th rust, other than the headset and seatpost binder bolt area was already taken care of in an earlier oxalic acid bath. The rest of the brown on the frame is smooth like the seller tried to hide the bare metal with brown sharpie, either when he was riding it or before taking ebay pics (an issue I've already taken care of with a partial refund). So I just need to do the headset/binder bolt area and then figure out primer and touch up paint, or so I think.
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Old 02-02-12, 09:31 AM   #16
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I can tell you from experience that you'd be better off using Sheldon Brown's method for coldsetting the rear triangle than the all thread and nuts method, especially when you are bending three stays.
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Old 02-02-12, 09:41 AM   #17
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I have a set of 27" alloy wheels, if you need them.
126mm and accepts a freewheel.
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Old 02-02-12, 11:06 AM   #18
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I can tell you from experience that you'd be better off using Sheldon Brown's method for coldsetting the rear triangle than the all thread and nuts method, especially when you are bending three stays.
Good to know, thanks. I'll look into a 2x4 long enough. The nice thing about the all thread is you can get a second length and use it to align the dropouts after moving them. In theory anyway. That and it's easier to transport when you're car free.
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Old 02-02-12, 11:08 AM   #19
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I have a set of 27" alloy wheels, if you need them.
126mm and accepts a freewheel.
Thanks for the offer. I suppose I could use a 7 speed freewheel with the same shifters, right? Something to consider. The thing is, I measured the dropout spacing and they're only 119 mm. Like the PO tried to go the other way to make it SS and didn't mention it. Either that or in '81 6 speeds were sometimes 120 mm.
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Old 02-02-12, 11:50 AM   #20
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I used an Origin 8 clamp-on cable stop to make a more modern front derailleur (w/o a cable stop) work on my Univega mixte. Everything works perfectly, and it only looks a little funny. You can buy it from amazon or through a shop if you have one that would be willing to order it for you; it should be about $10 either way including shipping. My frame took the 28.6 size.
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Old 02-02-12, 12:02 PM   #21
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I've never actually tried this but I'm planning on it for a resto of a schwinn of mine. For the touch ups try priming the chips and scratches with a good primer then touch up with model car paint that matches the luster and shade of black. Both can be found at a hobby/model shop. Then either spray or paint on some clear coat layers, let it dry/cure for a few weeks (you can probably still work on and ride the bike during this time as long as you didn't smother the bike in clear coat). Then buff and polish down the clear coat. Like I said, I've never actually done it but it should work.

As for the brakes, you can pick up decent sets from the same vintage on ebay at a good deal if you scope them out for long enough.
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Old 02-02-12, 08:34 PM   #22
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I used an Origin 8 clamp-on cable stop to make a more modern front derailleur (w/o a cable stop) work on my Univega mixte. Everything works perfectly, and it only looks a little funny. You can buy it from amazon or through a shop if you have one that would be willing to order it for you; it should be about $10 either way including shipping. My frame took the 28.6 size.
Ok, so it wasn't a stupid idea then. Good to know it might work.

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I've never actually tried this but I'm planning on it for a resto of a schwinn of mine. For the touch ups try priming the chips and scratches with a good primer then touch up with model car paint that matches the luster and shade of black. Both can be found at a hobby/model shop. Then either spray or paint on some clear coat layers, let it dry/cure for a few weeks (you can probably still work on and ride the bike during this time as long as you didn't smother the bike in clear coat). Then buff and polish down the clear coat. Like I said, I've never actually done it but it should work.
Hmmm, spraying on a clear coat from a rattle can. That had never occurred to me. Does that look decent? I'd heard someone say that model paint wasn't all that durable for him, but with a rattle can clear coat on top, that might just protect it. Sorry if I sound like an idiot, but how do I know what a good primer is? Again go talk to model shop people? Would a car part store maybe have touch up paint that'd work?
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As for the brakes, you can pick up decent sets from the same vintage on ebay at a good deal if you scope them out for long enough.
So the brakes I have aren't very good? I'd heard that most centerpulls from that era were essentially all the same, so it only mattered that you get good pads. Might have to look for some new ones then.
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Old 02-03-12, 08:00 AM   #23
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If those brakes work fine, then by all means use those, you probably won't need anything too high performance for this bike anyway. I thought you were unhappy with them or they didn't work for some reason. From what I can gather the rattle can clear coat won't look great when you first spray it on or during the drying process, but after you buff and polish it it should look good. I have heard that that stuff can take a while to dry, especially if you do a number of coats. A auto parts store will probably have the color you need because it's just black. Model stores are good because they usually stock a larger selection of colors.
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Old 02-03-12, 12:04 PM   #24
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Finally (for tonight anyway), I was planning on replacing the bb with a cartridge bb that I have laying around. If the shell is 68 mm, it should be english thread and any 68 mm english thread shimano un-55 should work, right?
Check the shell. It might be 70mm (and english thread). If so, I've had luck with Shimano cartridge BB's by replacing the NDS cup with one from a mtb BB. The cups are labeled 68 or 73 and are externally identical but engage the cartridge at different depths internally (if that makes any sense). If it's a 68mm shell the UN-55 will fit the BB shell but the chainline and chainstay clearance, etc will depend what crankset is used.
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Old 02-03-12, 12:49 PM   #25
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Yeah, I'd used my calipers on it and it came out to 67.9 or something, so I'm pretty sure it's good that way. Haven't checked clearance yet.
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