Harlan

Well gang, I'm one part from completion on my '89 Bottecchia SL and have some questions since I don't remember the last time I put together a bike with 8s ergos.

First order of business: ferrules don't fit in the brake adjusters of my Daytona calipers so I can't use them on that end, but do you use ferrules for the brake housing on the ergo end? I know I should use ferrules on every end of the shifter housings.

Second: how do you cleanly route the cables? Does the shifter cable end up on the outside bend of the bar? Seems uggo.

I'm planning on crossing the right shifter housing to the left DT stop and vice versa, and cross the cables back under the downtube. I've had lots of luck doing that on modern bikes although I doubt 8s needs to be that precise. Seems like the brake housings will be on the inside of the bend, which is okay, but the shifter housings will be pretty uncomfortable on the opposite side of the bar.

Lastly: It seems that Shimano shifter cables will fit into my ergo levers (as well as a Super Record DT lever I have on my keychain), is that kosher? The smaller end made for Campy seems too small and the Shimano end seems just right. Close to being snug but not quite.

ColonelJLloyd 

First: If a ferrule fits, use a ferrule.

Second: Yes, I run the shifter housing on the outside of the bar. Otherwise you're going to have to cross the top of the bar, right? That's where I put my hand; not cool.



Why do you need to cross the shifter cables? I guess this is a problem only encountered on small frames.

Lastly: I use Campagnolo specific shifter cables. I don't want one getting stuck in there.

MileHighMark

Use Campy-compatible cables. Last thing you want is to end up drilling out a stuck cable end.

Route the derailleur cable/housing along the back of the bar. Otherwise you get a nasty "hump" right where your palm rests.

Harlan

Thanks!

I usually cross over because it creates less of an angle for the housing to go through from the shifter to the DT stop. That compass top cap is sweet, by the way.

dddd

As Colonel mentioned, there is room for a ferrule in Campy's levers, butfurther, one is needed there because of the inside shape of the cable port in the lever body.

The opposite is true of Shimano's levers. While a ferrule will "fit" if you were to squeeze the lever hard, it is then really stuck in there, and it's sharp edges will make future housing fitments quite difficult (and likely causing a severe loss of cable tension the first time the brake is pulled as the new housing is forcefully pulled into the squashed ferrule.

Also, Campy's shift cable housings fit properly only with Campag ferrules.

And lastly, crossing the cables under the downtube prevents the housings from readily rubbing paint off of the head tube and/or lugs! It's a good idea, but the rear derailer cable must lie on top of the front derailer cable (under the downtube) for good shifting performance.

RobbieTunes

I've seen them crossed and not crossed. Either way, I guess, but I don't cross them, and even my 10-sp Campys shift just fine.

buldogge

I like to use the Jagwire POP ferrules at the caliper end.

Shimano SIS cable is fine if you want to use it.

As already mentioned, cables routed on back and front of bar, gear cables make a gentle arc in front of the HT.

Harlan

I tried both crossed and uncrossed on this setup, but uncrossed seems to make more sense and is cleaner.

I might just buy some Campy cables as my Shimano cables are used and kinda dirty unless I can find a way to clean them up and grease them.

buldogge

Are you running right-front brake? Left-front routes much smoother.

Right-rear crosses in front of the HT and feeds the rear caliper on the left side...???

Harlan

Yeah, right front because I broke my left elbow 7 weeks ago and now my entire left arm has a ton of atrophy. The hand is pretty weak compared to the right, and I have to have a very light touch on the left.

Right rear wouldn't be any different really, a cable would still go across the HT and the TT internal routing is in the middle. Not an issue.

ColonelJLloyd 

That's how I run mine as well.

dddd

"I might just buy some Campy cables as my Shimano cables are used and kinda dirty unless I can find a way to clean them up and grease them."

I spent some time in the 1990's thinking of how I could scrub the insides of a cable housing clean, and what I came up with has worked well for me ever since.

I get a nice, long used inner wire, and put a whole bunch of kinks in it, bent in all directions. Then I pull it somewhat straight, so the kinks don't cause the wire to be unmanageable.

I then get a spray can of lube/solvent, either silicone (plastic friendly lube) or "Dry PTFE" (also very friendly to plastic surfaces, as these contain no metallic extreme-pressure elements found in bearing greases for example).
I choose a lube with a spray applicator tube that can be heated with a lighter and pulled into a narrower capillary tube then cut off to make a needle tip.

I take a piece of used housing and spray a bit of the solvent-rich lubricant into the housing, then slip the housing over the wire, leaving an inch at the end where the wire doesn't pass thru. That's the end that I then spray a bit more of the "Dry Lubricant" into, using the narrowed applicator straw.

Now, sliding the lubed housing over the bent-up wire scrubs the inner liner clean, and a final brief blast of the lube followed by a blast of air from a presta chuck has the freshened housing ready for re-use.

I wipe down the old inner wire with suspension grease or GripShift Jonnisnot lube and wipe it off completely followed by a lighter final application of a smaller amount of clean lube before installing the housings. I pay attention not to contaminate the lubed inner wire from passing thru dirty cable guides, etc.

This also works for brake cable housing of course, but when re-using SIS shifter housings one should look for cracks and/or excesive shrinkage (at both ends) of the plastic covering and reject any badly-aged SIS housings.

This is my low-cost way of freshening up all of those lightly-used older bikes with poor cable action.
I save housings for future use as it is often necessary to start with a longer piece of housing and then cut off the ends where they are bent or collapsed.

Again, the choice of lube is very important when we're dealing with the plastic-to-metal sliding surfaces here. Grease intended for metal-to-metal (even most "Teflon-fortified" greases have metallic E.P. additives for bearings, etc) will not give the lowest friction in modern housings.
Suspension greases are suitable, as today's forks use polymer bushings which slide against metal and these lubes are also not overly viscous.
If the GripShift lube is used, only a light film should be used because it is rather thick.

dddd

On the new-looking Yellow Paramount shown, note that those housings, as routed, will rub thru the paint in a week or less.

Adding rubber or foam sleeves to the housing will still rub thru the paint as there is still movement and they move in an environment where abrasive dust is always present.

Even the thickest tape will wear thru rather quickly.

Only by crossing the cables under the downtube can the continuous contact of the housings be eliminated and the paint spared.

I see vintage bikes that have been re-fitted with their original components and shifters after having been updated previously, and the assault on the head tube and lower head lug paint, and often even the head badge, is a real eyesore imo.

ColonelJLloyd 

It's powder coat. I've since added these.

Harlan

I added some rubber donuts to the housings on the headtube, the ones that go around cables on exposed cable frames.

Harlan

Good info, thanks for that. I have new housings and brake cables but do keep my old ones, so I'll just clean up and grease my old shifter cables.

MileHighMark

Running a kinked cable through housing will probably do more harm than good.

Housing is cheap. Replace it along with the cables. Ride and smile.

triplebutted

That's what I do too. And it don't scratch the top tube.

RobbieTunes

I sometimes do the "gentle arc" that bulldogge refers to.



And sometimes I give out more cable, and let them overlap in front a bit.
I don't worry about head tube rub much. It means they're ridden.

dddd

Even with the heaviest, stiff plastic cable-rub protector tape, I've seen housings rub thru it on a road bike.

And the stiff ones definitely don't conform to the radius of the head tube for long, unless you pre-curl them sharply before sticking them on.
...not to mention trying to conform to the edges of the head lug.:-(

It really does make sense on most bikes to cross the shifter housings in front. I always run the brake housing across also, unless it's an old Paramount or Raleigh, etc. with stops on the right side of the top tube.

RobbieTunes

Can't say as I agree fully, but I do understand your point. I've not had a housing rub through anything, yet, and I've begun using the Jagwire rubber protectors on at least two bikes. Then again, I rotate my bikes, so one only gets used one week out of 6, right now.

On two Trofeos I've picked up, tuned and turned over to the owners, the crossed wires, with very minimal use, had rubbed both each other and the bottom of the downtube. I uncrossed those and trimmed the shifter cable housing, and neither has rubbed through yet. Once I find them some more Jagwire rubber housings, I'll put them on their bikes and they should be good to go.

There is minimal rub on this, and I'll live with it, get the Jagwire protectors, but still live with whatever rubs.



And the Jagwire protectors.

dddd

Mark my words, if you put miles on the bike, the only thing that those rubber sleeve things will protect is the housings.

You'll see primer, then metal. Like clockwork.

I agree that the crossed inner wires can wear thru under the down tube.
But, a few points about that:
The contact line is much longer, so much less contact pressure and the wear is many times slower.
The amount of surface movement, due to shifting gears, is far, far less than by the housings being jiggled vertically from road vibrations and from continuous small steering corrections.
Any tape applied under the downtube need not be thick, for the above reasons, and is relatively invisible there.
The same will be true of any needed paint touch-ups.

Harlan

What if my bike is chromed underneath the paint?

Just got the bar tape on. Funny, that tape has been on 4 iterations of 3 bikes. Ultegra 10s on my Cervelo, Sram Force on my Tarmac, Shimano 600 on the Bottecchia, and now Campy 8s on the same bike. It's seen a lot and seems to want to go right back in place each time I wrap it. Pushing it though, it's starting to tear in a few places so this should be it for a while.

Drillium Dude 

I'm late to this party, but I do have one little suggestion to (possibly) solve the cable rub issue.

Take some velcro and affix one piece to the head tube and another on the cable where it will touch the head tube. I'm trying this currently and will be able to give some practical feedback once the weather improves a bit (I can't bear to take my recently-converted beauty out into the rain and muck yet).

Also, on my 8-speed brifters, they came with two thin-walled ferrules that fit tightly into the brake cable socket of the lever body. I pulled them out with a pair of needle nosed pliers to clean them up - they needed a pretty good tug to remove, too, so if you do use this type of ferrule make sure they bottom out in the socket before final brake adjustment.

DD

dddd

"they needed a pretty good tug to remove, too"

That sounds like Shimano levers to me. There's not supposed to be any ferrules used, even though I find them all the time, and really stuck in there. They prevent easy cable housing replacement by preventing the new housing from entering the socket at an angle when the levers are secured to the bars.

Funny you mentioned the Velcro! I've seen a local rider's bike where he used just the fuzzy side of the velcro, stuck to the head tube.
It seems like a very good idea. The adhesive is strong, the material is flexible, and the rate of wear would appear to be low.

You could also cross the cables. The rear derailer cable wire should always rest on top of the front derailer cable.