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  1. #1
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    Raleigh Sport upgrade suggestions, ideas HELP!

    Hi, I was given a raleigh sports-late 60's or early 70's bronze green. I thought I was the luckiest girl in the world as I have wanted one for most of my life! The brakes are toast so it does not stop and have only gone on cautious rides. It's in pretty good shape, but not a museum collectors item. I would like to make it a rider as I already have a shiny vintage raleigh in mostly original condition that only comes out on nice days. I commute rather long distances and have hills to deal with.
    The wheels are in poor shape with rust, broken spokes and a damaged front hub. I would like to build new alloy wheels with drum brakes and an internal hub with drum brake like the sturmey archer 5 or 8 speed hubs. As much as I'd like to keep the 3 speed which works well, I have tested it on roads I ride daily and it does not have the range needed. I test road a bike with a 5 speed hub and had no problem flying up hills.
    Aside from stretching the frame and fork a bit to fit the modern hubs are there other issues to give me nightmares and question doing this project? I read on a little vintage raleigh blog that somebody put a new fork on because the original fork drop outs cannot take modern hubs. Is this true or false? It is possible to put a modern drum brake hub on the fork?

    I know there are endless threads on the forum about raleigh sports and wheels. I am trying to decide whether to go up to 700 or down to 650b. I want to keep the fenders and have read that one can fit 32 or 35 width wheels on with fenders.
    Are the new 26x 1 3/8 rims strong enough for internal and drum brake hubs?
    Thanks.

  2. #2
    26 tpi nut. sailorbenjamin's Avatar
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    You're familiar with Sheldon, right?
    http://sheldonbrown.com/raleigh26.html
    I have spoken.

  3. #3
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Personal opinion...

    I would go with the modern SA dyno drum in the front (90mm) and the 5 speed drum in the rear. I would stay with the original 590 rim size and use Sun CR-18 rims. You should be able to reuse the original fork with some slight modifications. Spreading it and filing the slots to widen them up. I believe you will have to cold set the rear frame a bit too. IIRC about 10mm.

    I just built up a set of wheels using CR-18 rims and the hubs I suggested. They happen to be 700c because of the bike they are going on.

    I see nothing wrong with what you are doing, and would probably do the same. I love my old Raleigh Sports/Superbes and the way they ride, upgrading the wheels only makes them better.

    Aaron
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  4. #4
    Senior Member clasher's Avatar
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    I'm in the process of redoing the cables on a winter bike and I use the SA drum brakes... the 5 speed drum needs 130mm dropouts in the rear... personally I think with a 90mm drum in the front, caliper brakes would be all that is needed in the rear, the 90mm 5 speed hub weigh ~1800g on its own. I was running a 70mm drum on a fixed as the only brake and it stopped my 250lbs without any concern. This depends on the terrain and speed you ride though, I plod along rolling hills mostly. I recently build up some cr-18s in the 590 size and they were nice rims at a great price. I think they might be available polished in that size.

  5. #5
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clasher View Post
    I'm in the process of redoing the cables on a winter bike and I use the SA drum brakes... the 5 speed drum needs 130mm dropouts in the rear... personally I think with a 90mm drum in the front, caliper brakes would be all that is needed in the rear, the 90mm 5 speed hub weigh ~1800g on its own. I was running a 70mm drum on a fixed as the only brake and it stopped my 250lbs without any concern. This depends on the terrain and speed you ride though, I plod along rolling hills mostly. I recently build up some cr-18s in the 590 size and they were nice rims at a great price. I think they might be available polished in that size.
    CR-18's are available polished in several sizes. The 700C's that I just built are polished. I want the 90mm drum on the front, the rear I used 70mm because I could not source a 90mm 5speed hub. I have a tendency to over size the brakes on my city bike builds. Fully loaded with groceries I can top 350#. I also shy away from rim brakes on city/utility bikes as a general rule. I prefer the roller/drums for that application, nearly maintenance free and weather proof.

    Aaron
    Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

    ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

    "Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
    RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"
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  6. #6
    Senior Member markk900's Avatar
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    @clasher: where did you source CR18s in 590 in this area (SW Ontario) at a great price? I've been using Alex rims as they are decent enough and under $25 each...but would prefer polished CR18s if I could get them inexpensively....(I'm "frugal" enough to not want to put $200+ worth of wheels on a $60 bike).

    Actually, same with more modern IGH and drum brakes.....I calculated building up a decent wheel set with new parts would be around $400...which is more than I paid for any of my C&V bikes....

  7. #7
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markk900 View Post
    @clasher: where did you source CR18s in 590 in this area (SW Ontario) at a great price? I've been using Alex rims as they are decent enough and under $25 each...but would prefer polished CR18s if I could get them inexpensively....(I'm "frugal" enough to not want to put $200+ worth of wheels on a $60 bike).

    Actually, same with more modern IGH and drum brakes.....I calculated building up a decent wheel set with new parts would be around $400...which is more than I paid for any of my C&V bikes....
    I am in US I typically pay ~$35-40usd for polished CR-18's a bit less for the satin finish. My average wheel builds cost $160 a wheel, but I use IG hubs, roller brakes, dyno hubs or drum brakes, all of which run the costs up. But when done they are solid wheels that will last for years of daily use. I also am not afraid to tear a wheel down and reuse hubs on different bikes if the need arises.

    I am building up spare wheels for our Raleigh Superbe and Colt with hubs I got off ebay. I am going back with the correct period hubs, just new rims and stainless spokes. Another odd thing to keep in mind if you are using the steel shell vintage hubs, use spoke washers to help keep the spokes from fatiguing.

    Aaron
    Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

    ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

    "Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
    RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"
    _Nicodemus

    "Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
    Aluminum: barely a hundred
    Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"
    _krazygluon

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    Oh yes I know about Sheldon sailorbenjamin. I have not seen that page, or not read it in a very long time, so Thanks! Very helpful!
    Thanks for your imput. I would like polished rims. Are there enough tire options for the 590 size? I like the tread of the grand bois hetres for example which is what my raleighs have. I would also like to hear from people who have gone with 700 wheels.
    I live in the pacific northwest and do have killer hills, but on work commutes and rides into the nearest town, there are flatter routes and would stick to those. So, still undecided about 5 or 8 speeds.
    Last edited by Heatherbikes; 02-05-12 at 12:36 PM. Reason: forgot something

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    I just looked at the SUN ringle site and they do not list a CR-18 in the 590 size. Do I have to ask around for them?

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    I have a Schwinn LeTour that I am fixing up in the manner Aaron suggests. Can't tell you much yet about this combo, because I've only taken it for one test ride before grad school took over ... 8 months ago. Sigh. This spring. I promise.

    Wheels sure are beautiful, heavy, and cost something that I don't remember on purpose.


  12. #12
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    Wheels were made by the good people (person?) at Ypsilanti Cycle. Fast, friendly service and a cool free t-shirt with wheel purchase.

  13. #13
    Senior Member clasher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markk900 View Post
    @clasher: where did you source CR18s in 590 in this area (SW Ontario) at a great price? I've been using Alex rims as they are decent enough and under $25 each...but would prefer polished CR18s if I could get them inexpensively....(I'm "frugal" enough to not want to put $200+ worth of wheels on a $60 bike).
    I think I snagged one pair at niagara cycle in person a while back while I was in the states... I've been meaning to enquire at the LBS about them as they seem to be sold from a few different sources online so I imagine norco or one of the other bigger distributers in Canada could list them too. Locally I've bought generic rims that look like CR18s but they don't have any labels, the distributor was babac so any LBS that can order from them could get them, I think they were 20$ a hoop and they seemed true, used them to rebuild an old 3 speed wheelset and was pleased with the outcome. Spoke lengths were the same as the original so that's why I think it's a generic version of the cr-18.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Fenway's Avatar
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    British 26" rims are 590mm also known as 650A. 650B are 584mm rims which will fit your current frame with more clearance for wider tires. 700c rims are 622mm which likely won't fit your frame if it was designed for 26"/650A/590mm rims.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenway View Post
    British 26" rims are 590mm also known as 650A. 650B are 584mm rims which will fit your current frame with more clearance for wider tires. 700c rims are 622mm which likely won't fit your frame if it was designed for 26"/650A/590mm rims.
    700c rims will fit the Raleigh Sports frame. Tis a very tight fit with stock fenders, though. With Planet Bike fenders, not so much.
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    I have a Raleigh Sports that I will be needing a new set of wheels for. I think I will stay with stock 26-1-3/8" but I would like to re-do the shifting cable setup with brazed on cable stops verse clamps.
    Last edited by silvercreek; 02-07-12 at 04:48 AM.
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    Senior Member oldroads's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silvercreek View Post
    I have a Raleigh Sports that I will be needing a new set of wheels for. I think I will stick with stock 26-1-3/8" but I would like to re-do the shifting cable setup with brazed on cable stops verse clamps.
    Curious as to why a brazed on fulcrum. Going for a cleaner look?
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    Yes, I saw that the cr-18 650a rims are out there(so cheap!) and quite a few tires to choose from. There is a shop in Vancouver specializing in vintage bikes and upgrading them, so can get some help there. Might as well stick to the size the frame was meant for, plus the fenders are part of the fantasy I've been having for so many years. My other vintage raleigh has the 26x1/4th wheels and I dread to think what's out there to replace the tires. I'd rather not go down to 650b as I fear there may be pedal strike. I am still deciding whether to go with a 5 or 8 speed hub. I got a 5 speed SA hub on ebay, but still not sure. The 3 speed hub on the bike is great, but not enough range, I recently test rode a bike with the SA 5 speed hub and a bike with the nexus 8 speed. I must say I really like the internal geared hubs, had never ridden one before the past few weeks and am now threatening to throw them on all my bikes.
    I know that I will probably want to ride this bike everywhere so I want it to handle the terrain reasonably. I am also considering a chaincase to further weather proof the bike.
    The filing bit won't be fun.

  19. #19
    Hopelessly addicted... photogravity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heatherbikes View Post
    Yes, I saw that the cr-18 650a rims are out there(so cheap!) and quite a few tires to choose from. There is a shop in Vancouver specializing in vintage bikes and upgrading them, so can get some help there. Might as well stick to the size the frame was meant for, plus the fenders are part of the fantasy I've been having for so many years. My other vintage raleigh has the 26x1/4th wheels and I dread to think what's out there to replace the tires. I'd rather not go down to 650b as I fear there may be pedal strike. I am still deciding whether to go with a 5 or 8 speed hub. I got a 5 speed SA hub on ebay, but still not sure. The 3 speed hub on the bike is great, but not enough range, I recently test rode a bike with the SA 5 speed hub and a bike with the nexus 8 speed. I must say I really like the internal geared hubs, had never ridden one before the past few weeks and am now threatening to throw them on all my bikes.
    I know that I will probably want to ride this bike everywhere so I want it to handle the terrain reasonably. I am also considering a chaincase to further weather proof the bike.
    The filing bit won't be fun.
    Heatherbikes, I think you've got a nice, easily attainable project on your hands. I am of the opinion, as others have responded, that CR-18 rims are your best choice for the bike. Regarding tires here is a list of available 650A tires that I reference quite often. I think you'll find it useful too.
    Last edited by photogravity; 02-08-12 at 04:20 AM.
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  20. #20
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heatherbikes View Post
    Yes, I saw that the cr-18 650a rims are out there(so cheap!) and quite a few tires to choose from. There is a shop in Vancouver specializing in vintage bikes and upgrading them, so can get some help there. Might as well stick to the size the frame was meant for, plus the fenders are part of the fantasy I've been having for so many years. My other vintage raleigh has the 26x1/4th wheels and I dread to think what's out there to replace the tires. I'd rather not go down to 650b as I fear there may be pedal strike. I am still deciding whether to go with a 5 or 8 speed hub. I got a 5 speed SA hub on ebay, but still not sure. The 3 speed hub on the bike is great, but not enough range, I recently test rode a bike with the SA 5 speed hub and a bike with the nexus 8 speed. I must say I really like the internal geared hubs, had never ridden one before the past few weeks and am now threatening to throw them on all my bikes.
    I know that I will probably want to ride this bike everywhere so I want it to handle the terrain reasonably. I am also considering a chaincase to further weather proof the bike.
    The filing bit won't be fun.
    Sounds like a plan to me!

    I am mildly changing things around on our Superbe/Colt and Tourist. The Superbe is getting CR-18 rims, stainless spokes and a 4 speed hub. The Colt is getting a CR 18 rims, stainless spokes, coaster brake 3 speed and a dyno hub. The Tourist is getting 5 speed dyno hub, stainless spokes, chain case, rack/stand and a proper white tail and fender reflector....and the torture never stops...

    Aaron
    Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

    ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

    "Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
    RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"
    _Nicodemus

    "Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
    Aluminum: barely a hundred
    Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"
    _krazygluon

  21. #21
    Dane silvercreek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldroads View Post
    Curious as to why a brazed on fulcrum. Going for a cleaner look?
    Yes, I was looking for a cleaner look. Although I'm sure I would be better off leaving the cable setup stock. I also would rather use correct period hubs, just new rims and stainless spokes. I don't know enough about the Raleigh Sports yet to decide which hubs to use. I do like the idea of a built-in generator for lights. As far as the tires, I would perfer stock 1-3/8" but a good quality tire.

    I do like the looks of these rims and hubs but I think I want 36 spokes. Do these hubs have built-in brakes? Is that why the are so large?

    Last edited by silvercreek; 02-07-12 at 04:55 AM.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/20832064@N03/sets/

    1976 Takara Grand Touring
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  22. #22
    Hopelessly addicted... photogravity's Avatar
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    I do not suggest brazing on the fulcrum unless you have the ability to either build your own cables or have a huge stash of nos cables in the proper length.
    --
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    46 Hercules Roadster, 49 Hercules Kestrel, 50 Norman Rapide, 51 Hercules Lion, 52 Hercules Windsor, 56 Hercules Royal Prince, 61 Fiorelli Tandem, 67 Carlton Super Race (IGH), 70 Schwinn Collegiate (IGH), 71 Hercules, 71 STF Hercules, 72 Peugeot PX-8 (IGH), 76 Raleigh Sports, 77 STF Raleigh Sports, 77 Jack Taylor Tandem, Early-80's Mike Appel SC, 84 Davidson Tandem, Late-80's Alpine, 10 Bilenky "BQ" Signature Tandem

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    Dane silvercreek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by photogravity View Post
    I do not suggest brazing on the fulcrum unless you have the ability to either build your own cables or have a huge stash of nos cables in the proper length.
    You are correct. I would just like a cleaner look but I don't think I want to tackle that sort of change. I use a nice set of clamps.
    Last edited by silvercreek; 02-07-12 at 05:14 AM.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/20832064@N03/sets/

    1976 Takara Grand Touring
    1976 Raleigh Technium
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    1978 Schwinn Paramount P13-9
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  24. #24
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silvercreek View Post
    Yes, I was looking for a cleaner look. Although I'm sure I would be better off leaving the cable setup stock. I also would rather use correct period hubs, just new rims and stainless spokes. I don't know enough about the Raleigh Sports yet to decide which hubs to use. I do like the idea of a built-in generator for lights. As far as the tires, I would perfer stock 1-3/8" but a good quality tire.

    I do like the looks of these rims and hubs but I think I want 36 spokes. Do these hubs have built-in brakes? Is that why the are so large?
    IIRC that is a 5 speed hub with drum brake and the front is a dyno drum. I have a similar set of wheels built up. Those wheels are 27", mine are 700c. You can buy the CR-18 polished in the 590 (26x1-3/8") in several different drillings. I just ordered up 3@36 and one @40.

    Aaron
    Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

    ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

    "Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
    RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"
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    "Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
    Aluminum: barely a hundred
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  25. #25
    Dane silvercreek's Avatar
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    I think I will stay with 36 spokes front and back.
    Last edited by silvercreek; 02-08-12 at 04:47 AM.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/20832064@N03/sets/

    1976 Takara Grand Touring
    1976 Raleigh Technium
    1976 Raleigh Sports
    1978 Schwinn Paramount P13-9
    1998 Raleigh SC30
    1954 Schwinn Jaguar
    1954 Schwinn Phantom

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