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Old 02-13-12, 12:20 PM   #1
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Older "New" 105 freewheel compatibility question

I recently picked up a 1987 Bianchi Brava frame which included the BB, crankset, derailleurs and shifters only. The components are Shimano 105 with the selector on the rear derailleur shifter to choose between friction and indexed. I'm wondering if i can use any six speed freewheel and chain or if the indexed option requires a specific freewheel/chain combination because of possibly different cog spacing on the freewheel?
Thanks in advance guys.
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Old 02-13-12, 12:24 PM   #2
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Any shimano/shimano compatible FW should work. I'm not a 100% but I think for the most part 6spd spacing is the same for all vendors. For a chain you need a 6 speed specific chain. 8 speed chains work for 6/7/8 spd, but 5,9, or 10 speed chains will not work.

I like sram chains, like the PC-830.
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Old 02-13-12, 12:37 PM   #3
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Any shimano/shimano compatible FW should work.
Any that use the splined removal tool.....if it's doesn't use the tool below it's NOT index compatible.

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Old 02-13-12, 12:38 PM   #4
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Shimano pre-SIS freewheels will not work well, even if they're 6 speed. The best preformance will come from a Shimano HyperGlide freewheel with the profiled and ramped teeth. This will improve performance over the original Uniglide freewheel. All six speed HyperGlide freewheels are compatible with SIS (Shimano Index System), are readily available and inexpensive. Any 6/7speed, HyperGlide compatible chain will work well.

THe OP should check and ensure that he has a freewheel as opposed to a freehub with cassette cogs. The latter complicates matters slightly as a Uniglide freehub is not compatible with HyperGlide, though there are workarounds.
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Old 02-13-12, 12:40 PM   #5
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you might have a uniglide fw currently.
http://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#uniglide
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Old 02-13-12, 12:45 PM   #6
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+1 on the SRAM 830 chain.

Also I am also not quite sure how the old Suntour Ultra-6 freewheels work with SIS indexing. They are 6 cogs crammed into 120 spacing.
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Old 02-13-12, 12:53 PM   #7
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you might have a uniglide fw currently.
http://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#uniglide

The OP did not get any wheels not FW or Cassette with the bike.

are you sure you need a 6spd? I am not sure what that fancy sram chain cost but I like the basic KMC for about $10

Pics? is that black with celeste decals?
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Old 02-13-12, 12:54 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
Shimano pre-SIS freewheels will not work well, even if they're 6 speed. The best preformance will come from a Shimano HyperGlide freewheel with the profiled and ramped teeth. This will improve performance over the original Uniglide freewheel. All six speed HyperGlide freewheels are compatible with SIS (Shimano Index System), are readily available and inexpensive. Any 6/7speed, HyperGlide compatible chain will work well.

THe OP should check and ensure that he has a freewheel as opposed to a freehub with cassette cogs. The latter complicates matters slightly as a Uniglide freehub is not compatible with HyperGlide, though there are workarounds.
Thanks T-Mar, There was no freewheel or chain on the bike so when i start looking i want to get the right kind...hence the post.
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Old 02-13-12, 12:55 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
Any that use the splined removal tool.....if it's doesn't use the tool below it's NOT index compatible.

Thanks miamijim, i have the tool already, just need the freewheel now.
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Old 02-13-12, 01:05 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
The OP did not get any wheels not FW or Cassette with the bike.

are you sure you need a 6spd? I am not sure what that fancy sram chain cost but I like the basic KMC for about $10

Pics? is that black with celeste decals?
The dropouts are spaced for a 6 speed and the indexed shifter is also 6 speed so i'd prefer to stay with 6. The frame is hmmm... i think lavender or lilac with white decals, it does have quite a few chips and some surface rust so i'm considering a repaint...it may end up celeste with black decals

or at least dark blue and gold
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Old 02-13-12, 06:43 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
Any that use the splined removal tool.....if it's doesn't use the tool below it's NOT index compatible.

In my ignorance, that's news to me. I've had a fairly ancient Dura-Ace FW as well as a Sachs (IIRC) on my 6-sp SIS, that used different tools than the one shown, and never had any shifting issues.

@ The MAX, Again, in my ignorance, I never knew there was any difference between 5-sp and standard 6-sp chain. The cog spacing is virtually the same, no?
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Old 02-13-12, 08:04 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
Any that use the splined removal tool.....if it's doesn't use the tool below it's NOT index compatible.

Thats not correct.

6 speed SIS was common in the late 80's. My 88 World sport had it, My wifes 87 Terry is 6 speed SIS with a freewheel and 100% stock with about 50 miles on it. The trick is making sure you have a freewheel with the right spacing or just going to Niagra's site and buying one. if in doubt. The bonus is its a modern ramped Freewheel. $11 bucks http://www.niagaracycle.com/index.php?cPath=4_5_58_5801


EDIT: look at the side of the shifter and make sure of what you have. It should have "6s" for a 6 speed printed on the bezel around where you select friction or index. if it has "7s" its a 7 speed etc.

Last edited by Grim; 02-13-12 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 02-14-12, 09:53 AM   #13
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Thats not correct.

6 speed SIS was common in the late 80's. My 88 World sport had it, My wifes 87 Terry is 6 speed SIS with a freewheel and 100% stock with about 50 miles on it. The trick is making sure you have a freewheel with the right spacing or just going to Niagra's site and buying one. if in doubt. The bonus is its a modern ramped Freewheel. $11 bucks http://www.niagaracycle.com/index.php?cPath=4_5_58_5801


EDIT: look at the side of the shifter and make sure of what you have. It should have "6s" for a 6 speed printed on the bezel around where you select friction or index. if it has "7s" its a 7 speed etc.
Thanks for the link Grim. It is a six speed btw.
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Old 02-14-12, 10:50 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
Any that use the splined removal tool.....if it's doesn't use the tool below it's NOT index compatible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by old's'cool View Post
In my ignorance, that's news to me. I've had a fairly ancient Dura-Ace FW as well as a Sachs (IIRC) on my 6-sp SIS, that used different tools than the one shown, and never had any shifting issues.

@ The MAX, Again, in my ignorance, I never knew there was any difference between 5-sp and standard 6-sp chain. The cog spacing is virtually the same, no?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim View Post
Thats not correct.

6 speed SIS was common in the late 80's. My 88 World sport had it, My wifes 87 Terry is 6 speed SIS with a freewheel and 100% stock with about 50 miles on it. The trick is making sure you have a freewheel with the right spacing or just going to Niagra's site and buying one. if in doubt. The bonus is its a modern ramped Freewheel. $11 bucks http://www.niagaracycle.com/index.ph...h=4_5_58_5801?
I believe Jim's original statment is correct, with some clarification. Any Shimano freewheel using the splined, thin wall removal tool is SIS compatible. This design was first used on the 1985 Dura-Ace MF-7400 freewheel. In 1986, Shimano flowed it down to their New 600EX and Z-series freewheels. All the freewheels used the same, even spacing between cogs. The only difference was the cog finsh and the freewheel body mechanism.

Older Shimano designs were not SIS compatible due to spacing variations between cogs. However, it was possible to get some to index satisfactorily across most of the cogs and it was also possible to retrofit UniGlide cogs and SIS spacers, in some instances.

After SIS came out, other manufacturers adopted SIS cog spacing, notably Sachs-Huret, so it is possible to find non-Shimano, SIS compatible freewheels. Aalmost all current freewheel production is SIS compatible.

So, what I think Jim was trying to say was that you can be sure it's SIS compatible if the freewheel uses the splined thin wall remover. However, if it doesn't, it may not be SIS compatible and you have know the spacing of the freewheel cogs.
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Old 02-14-12, 05:13 PM   #15
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You can convert any 126mm freewheel hub into SIS by threading an SIS compatible FW (HG, even Suntour AP) onto it. It's a very common upgrade. In fact, if you've already got 105 shifters, you might as well make the jump to 7 speed. You may need a 105SC RD for the additional range and maybe a washer, if it's tight around the dropouts (the 7 speed cog will be a tad thicker, see pic). You can still use the 105 6 speed shifter to index up to 6, with the RD's stop screw stopping you at the 7th gear, sans click. Here's an UG 6 vs HG7:


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Old 02-14-12, 08:15 PM   #16
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You can convert any 126mm freewheel hub into SIS by threading an SIS compatible FW (HG, even Suntour AP) onto it. It's a very common upgrade. In fact, if you've already got 105 shifters, you might as well make the jump to 7 speed. You may need a 105SC RD for the additional range and maybe a washer, if it's tight around the dropouts (the 7 speed cog will be a tad thicker, see pic). You can still use the 105 6 speed shifter to index up to 6, with the RD's stop screw stopping you at the 7th gear, sans click. Here's an UG 6 vs HG7:

Thanks Kanegon, i found a 6sp FW that should work fine and already have a SRAM chain stashed away so should be good to go
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