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Old 02-13-12, 12:29 PM   #1
Rainer_
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Nishiki 4130 - Dad's Old Bike

My wife just picked up a new Felt NZ85. I wanted to ride with her, so my dad offered me his 1980s Nishiki 4130. This is my first road bike.

I have several questions and was hoping I could find answers here.

(1) This bike has rarely been used, but nor has it been serviced much in 20+ years. Anything special I should do to it before putting on more miles? Obviously not looking to drop a lot of money on something so old. I've taken it around the block several times and it rides (to my novice legs) rather well.

(2) The tires say "28-630", "27 x 1-1/4", "C-678-2" and are made by Cheng Shin. They have Schrader valves. I'd like to pick up some spare tubes in case I get a flat farther from home. What tubes should I get? Anything special I need to know about changing out the tubes or inflating them?

(3) Currently it is set up with plank pedals. Are cranks (even back then) pretty standard so I could add modern clipless pedals?

(4) It only has mounting holes for one water bottle cage. Any advice on how to mount a second one? Lots of zip ties?

Any suggestions and advice is GREATLY appreciated!

I've attached a few photos and can certainly take more if helpful.
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Old 02-13-12, 12:53 PM   #2
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1. This really should have all the bearings overhauled. Based on your question I assume you don't work on bicycles and/or don't have the tools. An overhaul will cost quite a bit at an LBS (local bicycle shop), but so will the necessary tools. It's your choice.

3. Crankset pedal threads will be compatible with modern clipless pedals (9/16" x 20TPI) unless it's a really cheap crankset (1/2" x 20 TPI), which it doesn't appear to be. Threading is usually marked on the crankarms by the pedal holes.

2. Any LBS and even a Wal-Mart should have 27" x 1-1/4" tubes.

4. I'd suggest a handlebar mounted cage for the 2nd bottle. Most LBS stock them
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Old 02-13-12, 01:00 PM   #3
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+1 on everything T-Mar said.

Those tires definitely are dried out. You'll want to replace them. I would also replace the rim strips and tubes, then keep the old tubes as spares. Patch them if necessary. Don't forget to carry tire levers, patch kit, and a pump on your ride.

You'll probably also be more comfortable replacing the bar foam with new wrapping.

With adjustment, lubrication, new tires/tubes/strips, new wrap, new brake pads, be prepared to spend around $150. Even then, a 'tune-up' usually doesn't include repacking the headset and bottom bracket. And or course, they won't shine up all those alloy components until it looks like new again. You'll have to do that - cause you want don't want everyone thinking you ride your wife's hand-me-downs.
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Old 02-13-12, 02:36 PM   #4
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Thanks! Really helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
1. This really should have all the bearings overhauled. Based on your question I assume you don't work on bicycles and/or don't have the tools. An overhaul will cost quite a bit at an LBS (local bicycle shop), but so will the necessary tools. It's your choice.
Indeed, I do not work on bikes. What is the potential downside to not getting the bearings overhauled now? Catastrophic failure or just less efficient movement? I can live with the latter; the former sounds like a nightmare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
3. Crankset pedal threads will be compatible with modern clipless pedals (9/16" x 20TPI) unless it's a really cheap crankset (1/2" x 20 TPI), which it doesn't appear to be. Threading is usually marked on the crankarms by the pedal holes.
I looked at the crankarms for threading info, but all they say is "Sugino Forged Japan 170". Any thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
2. Any LBS and even a Wal-Mart should have 27" x 1-1/4" tubes.
Perfect.

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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
4. I'd suggest a handlebar mounted cage for the 2nd bottle. Most LBS stock them
Will pick one up.
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Old 02-13-12, 02:40 PM   #5
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More great info (please keep it coming)!

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Originally Posted by Beach Comber View Post
Those tires definitely are dried out. You'll want to replace them. I would also replace the rim strips and tubes, then keep the old tubes as spares. Patch them if necessary. Don't forget to carry tire levers, patch kit, and a pump on your ride.
Any tires you'd recommend? Can definitely replace the tubes when I replace the tires. What are the rim strips? Wife already bought us the levers, patch kit, and pump, so we're good there.

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You'll probably also be more comfortable replacing the bar foam with new wrapping.
Just cut off the old foam and apply the wrapping? Same general application as say, racquet tape?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beach Comber View Post
With adjustment, lubrication, new tires/tubes/strips, new wrap, new brake pads, be prepared to spend around $150. Even then, a 'tune-up' usually doesn't include repacking the headset and bottom bracket. And or course, they won't shine up all those alloy components until it looks like new again. You'll have to do that - cause you want don't want everyone thinking you ride your wife's hand-me-downs.
Gulp, a bit more than I was hoping to spend. What replacements would you consider essential vs. optional? Perfectly fine having an ugly bike.
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Old 02-13-12, 02:46 PM   #6
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I used these on my Nishiki. Good Tires.

http://www.performancebike.com/bikes...8_20000_400904

Make sure you order Schrader tubes.
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Old 02-13-12, 03:15 PM   #7
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I pulled a 89-90 alu/cromo rear triangle bike out of a friends basement in pretty good shape.

As a non-expert here was my list.

Things which needed love:

Disintegrated tires. Replace with $20-30 ones in 700x28.
Have a mechanic give the quill stem a poke to free it.
Replace 130 bcd 53-42 cranks with something knee friendly, new or used.
New hoods. (No white available to match the white leather bar tape )
Rear hub a little sticky
chain

No help needed:

Seat post
rim tape
pedals (yeah!)
cables and shifting.

I figured it will run $175-225 depending on the crank/rings.
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Old 02-13-12, 04:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
What are the rim strips?
Rim strips are rubber strips that line the inside of the rim, and prevent the end of the spoke nipples from puncturing the inner tube. Your bike looks fairly entry level, so its a safe bet they are old and brittle. They are very cheap.

Just like an aging automobile, one time repair costs can exceed the value of the vehicle. But look at it another way. For about $150 and some of your own elbow grease, you can decide whether you enjoy road riding with the wife. If so, you may want to look at something higher in the food chain next year, and save this for your backup ride. Or you can probably sell the Nishiki for about what you put into it. And if you don't like it, you aren't out the $1000 you'd have spent if the bike were brand new.
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Old 02-13-12, 05:58 PM   #9
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this would get you the basic tools you need..... http://www.performancebike.com/bikes...0_20000_400154 ok to good quality.

and this site would help http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help
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Old 02-13-12, 06:30 PM   #10
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The first thing you need to determine is whether or not the bike fits. If it fits, all that is needed is a bit of grease and some new tires. If there is a so called "Bicycle Kitchen" in your area you could go there for assistance and tools for a very small donation. Do you have a friend who knows about bicycle maintenance? If not, buy a book. Nothing is really that difficult until you start upgrading to more modern parts. The tools you will need are common and minimal.

Next, get the serial number off the rear wheel dropout. This will tell you where it was made and when. Search this forum to decipher.

Is this the Sport model? I have one and use it as my winter commuter. It isn't the lightest or fastest but it sure is comfortable and has the braze-ons for a rear rack and fenders.

But before you do anything make sure it fits!

Matt
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Old 02-13-12, 08:25 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainer_ View Post
Thanks! Really helpful.



Indeed, I do not work on bikes. What is the potential downside to not getting the bearings overhauled now? Catastrophic failure or just less efficient movement? I can live with the latter; the former sounds like a nightmare.


I looked at the crankarms for threading info, but all they say is "Sugino Forged Japan 170". Any thoughts?


You run the risk of destroying the hubs, at which point, you will be shopping for replacement wheels. On the bottom bracket, replacement is not as catastrophic, replacement cartridge bb can be had for around $10 if you shop around. I just bought several last night for $9.95.


I have bought a lot of bikes from the 1980s, I have yet to have found a single one where the bearings and grease were good.

+1 Make sure the bike fits first.

+1 Find a co-op or similar, and they can assist you in completing the repairs.


Your cranks handle standard pedal threading.
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Old 02-14-12, 01:09 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainer_ View Post
My wife just picked up a new Felt NZ85. I wanted to ride with her, so my dad offered me his 1980s Nishiki 4130. This is my first road bike.
Cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainer_ View Post
Obviously not looking to drop a lot of money on something so old. I've taken it around the block several times and it rides (to my novice legs) rather well.
Don't be too quick to dismiss the old gal... Kawamura built fine steel frames. Welcome to the Nishiki Club...

Last edited by vendorz; 02-14-12 at 01:10 AM. Reason: fixed quote
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Old 02-14-12, 08:59 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainer_ View Post
...Indeed, I do not work on bikes. What is the potential downside to not getting the bearings overhauled now? Catastrophic failure or just less efficient movement? I can live with the latter; the former sounds like a nightmare....I looked at the crankarms for threading info, but all they say is "Sugino Forged Japan 170". Any thoughts?
As previously mentioned, all bearings can be replaced if they are worn out. The question is the expense. Worn out hub bearings are worst, as you either have to go through the expense of re-lacing the rims on new hubs or buying new wheels. A new headset, pedals, bottom bracket or freewheel are not verly large expenses, provided you do the work yourself and they do not all need replacing at the same time.

Overall, in the long run, I think it benefits to learn bicycle mechnanics and invest in tools. A co-op is great learning experience. If you don't have one, there are many great on-line sources but I prefer books, as I like having the instructions in front of me while I work. Most used book shops have a wide variety of repair manuals available at reasonable prices.

As for the pedals, sometimes the thread are marked on wrench flats. If not, remove the pedal and compare the threaded end to the one from your wife's bicycle. A 1/16" difference in diameter wil be readily noticable, if you have the smaller size.
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Old 02-14-12, 11:48 AM   #14
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Great info. Thanks!

I did ask and the bike was tuned up a few years ago, but I guess the tires weren't replaced. I think that will be the first thing I take care of (replacing the rim strips then as well).

Definitely on board with trying this bike out before deciding whether I want to plunk down $1000 on something new.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beach Comber View Post
Rim strips are rubber strips that line the inside of the rim, and prevent the end of the spoke nipples from puncturing the inner tube. Your bike looks fairly entry level, so its a safe bet they are old and brittle. They are very cheap.

Just like an aging automobile, one time repair costs can exceed the value of the vehicle. But look at it another way. For about $150 and some of your own elbow grease, you can decide whether you enjoy road riding with the wife. If so, you may want to look at something higher in the food chain next year, and save this for your backup ride. Or you can probably sell the Nishiki for about what you put into it. And if you don't like it, you aren't out the $1000 you'd have spent if the bike were brand new.
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Old 02-14-12, 11:48 AM   #15
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Perfect. Will grab a pair ASAP!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 Wheels View Post
I used these on my Nishiki. Good Tires.

http://www.performancebike.com/bikes...8_20000_400904

Make sure you order Schrader tubes.
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Old 02-14-12, 11:49 AM   #16
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I have a bunch of tools for general garage work, but several of those look specific to bikes, so I'll grab that set. Thanks for the recommendation and the link to the repair page!

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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
this would get you the basic tools you need..... http://www.performancebike.com/bikes...0_20000_400154 ok to good quality.

and this site would help http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help
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Old 02-14-12, 11:51 AM   #17
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The bike seems to fit fine. I'm the same height as my dad (6'0") and I had a friend help me roughly adjust it to get the fit a bit better.

Does anyone know of a "Bike Kitchen" in the Los Angeles area (I'm in the Miracle Mile / Mid-Wilshire area)? I do have a couple friends who cycle and will be dropping them a line soon as well.

Indeed, this is the Sports model.

Thanks for the advice!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hangtownmatt View Post
The first thing you need to determine is whether or not the bike fits. If it fits, all that is needed is a bit of grease and some new tires. If there is a so called "Bicycle Kitchen" in your area you could go there for assistance and tools for a very small donation. Do you have a friend who knows about bicycle maintenance? If not, buy a book. Nothing is really that difficult until you start upgrading to more modern parts. The tools you will need are common and minimal.

Next, get the serial number off the rear wheel dropout. This will tell you where it was made and when. Search this forum to decipher.

Is this the Sport model? I have one and use it as my winter commuter. It isn't the lightest or fastest but it sure is comfortable and has the braze-ons for a rear rack and fenders.

But before you do anything make sure it fits!

Matt
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Old 02-14-12, 11:53 AM   #18
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I think finding a coop to help with some of this is a great suggestion! Definitely do not want to destroy the bike. It was tuned up about five years ago, but has since sat unused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
You run the risk of destroying the hubs, at which point, you will be shopping for replacement wheels. On the bottom bracket, replacement is not as catastrophic, replacement cartridge bb can be had for around $10 if you shop around. I just bought several last night for $9.95.


I have bought a lot of bikes from the 1980s, I have yet to have found a single one where the bearings and grease were good.

+1 Make sure the bike fits first.

+1 Find a co-op or similar, and they can assist you in completing the repairs.


Your cranks handle standard pedal threading.
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Old 02-14-12, 11:59 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainer_ View Post
...I did ask and the bike was tuned up a few years ago, but I guess the tires weren't replaced. I think that will be the first thing I take care of (replacing the rim strips then as well).

Definitely on board with trying this bike out before deciding whether I want to plunk down $1000 on something new.
Tune-ups are generally restricted to adjusting derailleurs and brakes, truing the wheels, lubing the chain, ensuring correct tire pressure and checking that everything is tight and safe. Typically, they do not include cleaning and re-greasing bearings. You should do this, at least for the hubs. Next in line would be the bottom bracket, then the headset. Sounds like you're going clipless for the pedals anyway, so they're a toss. Ride the freewheel it it croaks. New HyperGlide compatible freewheels are inexpensive and increase the shifting perforamnce vastly, though a new freewheel will almost certainly require a new chain too.

Edit: BTW, I'd appreciate the model and serial number of your Nishiki, for my database. TIA.

Last edited by T-Mar; 02-14-12 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 02-14-12, 12:05 PM   #20
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Thanks! Very much look forward to putting on some miles on this bike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vendorz View Post
Cool.



Don't be too quick to dismiss the old gal... Kawamura built fine steel frames. Welcome to the Nishiki Club...
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Old 02-14-12, 12:07 PM   #21
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Happy to learn to do basic maintenance assuming it isn't too difficult/expensive.

Any beginner repair book in particular you recommend?

Good suggestion to compare my pedals to my wife's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
As previously mentioned, all bearings can be replaced if they are worn out. The question is the expense. Worn out hub bearings are worst, as you either have to go through the expense of re-lacing the rims on new hubs or buying new wheels. A new headset, pedals, bottom bracket or freewheel are not verly large expenses, provided you do the work yourself and they do not all need replacing at the same time.

Overall, in the long run, I think it benefits to learn bicycle mechnanics and invest in tools. A co-op is great learning experience. If you don't have one, there are many great on-line sources but I prefer books, as I like having the instructions in front of me while I work. Most used book shops have a wide variety of repair manuals available at reasonable prices.

As for the pedals, sometimes the thread are marked on wrench flats. If not, remove the pedal and compare the threaded end to the one from your wife's bicycle. A 1/16" difference in diameter wil be readily noticable, if you have the smaller size.
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Old 02-14-12, 12:09 PM   #22
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Ha ha, half that sounds like Greek (bottom bracket, headset, freewheel, etc). Will start reading up!

Really appreciate you taking the time to respond!

When I get home tonight, I'll look up the serial number on the bike. I believe the model (at least the one sticker I remember) read 4130.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
Tune-ups are generally restricted to adjusting derailleurs and brakes, truing the wheels, lubing the chain, ensuring correct tire pressure and checking that everything is tight and safe. Typically, they do not include cleaning and re-greasing bearings. You should do this, at least for the hubs. Next in line would be the bottom bracket, then the headset. Sounds like you're going clipless for the pedals anyway, so they're a toss. Ride the freewheel it it croaks. New HyperGlide compatible freewheels are inexpensive and increase the shifting perforamnce vastly, though a new freewheel will almost certainly require a new chain too.

Edit: BTW, I'd appreciate the model and serial number of your Nishiki, for my database. TIA.
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Old 02-14-12, 12:16 PM   #23
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4130 is the type of steel used to make the bike, 4130 is a mid grade.

If you are more of a visual person than a reader, YouTube will have some videos on how to do some of the repairs.
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Old 02-14-12, 12:18 PM   #24
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another option for a water bottle cage is to buy yourself a metal one and then use hose clamps (or p clamps) to hold it to the frame. You'll want to put electrical tape or bits of an old tire or something underneath the clamp so as not to scrape up your paint, but it's another option to try.
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Old 02-14-12, 12:48 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainer_ View Post
Ha ha, half that sounds like Greek (bottom bracket, headset, freewheel, etc). Will start reading up!

Really appreciate you taking the time to respond!

When I get home tonight, I'll look up the serial number on the bike. I believe the model (at least the one sticker I remember) read 4130.

Details from park. don't get overwhelmed lubing/overhauling breaks really breaks down to take appart, clean, look for wear, lube (grease), put back to gether and adjust

Also ask your dad when the last time the hubs, botttom bracket and headset were greased....

bottom bracket http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-...racket-service

hubs http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-...and-adjustment

derailler http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-...illeur-systems

handlebar stem seat post http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-...-and-seat-post




headset http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-...service#adjust (lots about take cups and crown race off...ignore just look ast assembly and adjust)

brakes http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-...ice-and-repair

freewheel/cassette http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-...ewheel-service

chain http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-...ir-and-service
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