shoota 

I'm 33 so...

pastorbobnlnh 

The thought process was simple--- I bought 28mm for both my '93 R600 and my '96 SR500, yet in both cases, 28s would not fit!

Therefore I had not much of a choice but to run the 25s.

At the moment my '88 ST400 sits un-built. I have a set of 28s and 32s Gatorskins ready to try--- that is--- when I finally find the time to build it.


Still in a mystery location?

What part of NH?

Yes, under those conditions wider lower PSI tires make sense.

himespau 

[QUOTE=pastorbobnlnh;18032984

At the moment my '88 ST400 sits un-built. I have a set of 28s and 32s Gatorskins ready to try--- that is--- when I finally find the time to build it.



[/QUOTE]
The '85 ST400 I'm building for my wife (with swept back bars for an upright ride) fits 32 Panaracer Paselas with fenders. I don't know why they put caliper brakes on a touring bike, but whatever, the Tektro R559's let me put on some 700c wheels I had laying around (that may play a role in what size tires you can use, probably wouldn't fit fenders with the 27" wheels that were original spec). I really wanted to build that frame up into a touring bike for me, but then I happened into a (rather heavier) '93 Specialized Sequoia frame which is spaced for 135 mm rear wheel, fits 38-42 mm tires with fenders, and has cantilever studs and decided I wanted to build myself a touring bike that could do a bit more off road stuff if needed even though I'll loose a bit of quickness/responsiveness. Still not sure it was the right choice.

mtnbke

33…and talking about which bikes are more comfortable!

mtnbke

You're post threw me off. My Cannondale ST800s came stock with 630 (27") wheels and those beautiful fenders. Why are we assuming fenders wouldn't fit on your ST with the size of wheel set the bike was designed for? Are you using REALLY wide tires?

I bought a Nitto Alloy Mustache bar. Its beautiful. I don't know why I like the stupid little red "heat treated" sticker, I just do. I'm a sucker for Nitto and it goes nicely with my Nitto stem on my ST800. The problem is the mustache bars are too narrow. So I can't use the gorgeous lightweight Nitto M'bar, instead I've got the wider steel Nashbar Mustache bars on my ST now. The Nitto Grand Randonneur handlebars the ST800s came with are too narrow, as well. They shouldn't have used narrow bars on 27" frames.

I mounted my shifters on Kelly Take-Offs on the Mustache bars. I love the setup. I just need replacement hoods for my Suntour Superbe Pro levers. I wanted the SB Pro levers and shifters to match the derailleurs, so I took off the Dia-Compe levers and the Accu-shift barcons. I love my setup. Super comfy, multiple hand positions.

I just ordered three more Nashbar steel Mustache bars with the 21% sale and free shipping that ended this week. I'm putting them on the newer Cannondale tandem, and saving two for my next two ST 800 builds. My all time favorite handlebar now. I'll never go back to drop bars.

I might be the only guy in the world that didn't care for this group of quality bars: Nitto Grand Randonneur 135 handlebars, an authentic WTB Dirt Drop handlebars (48cm), the Nitto Noodle (48cm), of the Salsa Pro road (48cm). Instead I replaced about $275 worth of bars with a $12 handlebar. There is no question though, which handlebars are the most comfortable.

In my book the Mustache bar should be the official handlebar of the Sport Touring bike.

mtnbke

The Contintental TopTouring 2000 tires from my secret stash I just mounted on newer Cannondale tandem didn't fit 700x38 tires. At the very tippy top of the tire there is some "out of round" rubbing on the chain stays north of the tire (not on the sides). With our tandem team weight we really kind of need those 38s. This is a tandem not a racing bike. I'm shocked the tandem doesn't fit 48s, let alone 38s. I thought I sourced a new pair of Schwalbe Marathon Plus 700x35s but they were 45s, and really the perfect tires for the tandem, except they don't fit, obviously as well.

So now I'm looking at putting the Marathon Plus tire on the front of the tandem (feels like a truck instead of a Crit, already with the 38 up there. Like the road is fighting handlebar input). We need to lose some freakin' weight and get down to something appropriate like 32s.

Darth Lefty 

It's a Stronglight Delta headset and the decal is post-factory; so probably is the headset. There's no sign of there ever having been a clearcoated XR800 decal as shown in the catalog. I've only seen one other so far in the 1996 Ronald McDonald MTB livery and it also did not have any XR800 decal. It has the CAAD3, downtube, made-n-America decals under the clearcoat. All the other decals (Alcoa, fork blades, CODA, etc.) were a decal kit from Cannondale and also applied after clearcoat, probably by the owner. I don't know anything about the history of this frame. It came to me with the Paul brakes, the Stronglight headset, a steel mystery stem, and that's it. The catalog shows it with CODA brakes and welded stem. Every one I've seen for sale has the cantis replaced, at least, usually with Avids, and has been from a later year. The seller said he harvested a 30-speed drivetrain off it which is a mystery since it would have shipped with 16-speed 105. The wear on the paint indicates the bike was thoroughly used.

fleslider 

FWIW: Im 41 and and have a 1989 Cannondale Road bike It was a bare frame model, I use it for most of my riding, and do not find it harsh at all, Its fun and responsive, I have rode Aluminum bikes since 1990 when i got my first one. what they dont do is flex. and as Mtnbike mentioned, that the steel frames flex. I crashed in 1988 on a 1987 Trek 560 that flexed so bad it dropped the chain off the chainrings as i was out of the seat climbing a hill.

but then again i am a tall rider at 6'3". all ive ever found was that the steel bikes were more comfortable, but if i wanted alot of comfort i would buy a cruiser or a Hybrid. The Cannondale and (I also have a Klein) are fast stiff frames. i get out of the seat and start cranking.. i dont get flex from that BB. unlike the Steel frames.

Are the steel bikes cool.. yes they are i love the old steel also. i have a Trek 560 and a couple Centurion Ironman's they are nice bikes, but i cant hammer the pedals like i can with my cannondale.

Like other have mentioned steel and Aluminum bikes are comparing apples and oranges. you like comfort etc.. get a steel bike. If you are looking for a bike that handles and is nice and stiff for power transfer.. get Aluminum. Its up to each rider and what they like.

himespau 

ST400s only came as framesets and they were designed for fenders, but with 28 mm max tire size for 27" wheels. PastorBob was saying he was going to try 28 or 32mm tires to see which would fit on his '88, and I was commenting that if he used 700c rims, he could use either with fenders (though 32's are rather tight), but if he used 27" rims, he'll likely be limited to 28's with fenders or 32 without (depending on how his gatorskins compare to my paselas for actual width - which often varies widely from advertised width).

I do love the Kelly Take-offs for a touring bike. It's so nice to have something so basic where so little can go wrong. I hadn't thought about what putting them on a mustache bar would do for hand positioning. My wife's ST400 actually has the mustache bar from Soma with the mtb bike bar width, so it has LX integrated flat bar brake/shift levers back on the flat part and CX style interrupter levers on the curves where you'd normally put the brake lever. Gives her the upright position she wants but also a more forward position for tucking in going downhill or fighting the wind.

pastorbobnlnh 

I am planning to run fenders. Thanks for your wise and actual experience. Now the variable to contend with will be the difference in published tire width and actual tire width.

BTW, I have a set of Paul centerpull calipers to run on this bike. Should be the next best thing to cantilevers.

I find it funny how we settle into a specific handlebar that we each find, for our own personal self, to be the most comfortable set.

For me it has become the Schwinn drop bars found on the Continentals, Sports Tourers and Super Sports of the 1970s. They are a Randonneur style made by GB. I love these bars, and when they are set up with a tall stem, I'm in heaven! Whenever I spot a junked Continental at the dump, I say a little prayer that the bars aren't bent as I approach the bike for the first time!

A set of these bars will go on my '88 ST400. When the bar tape on either my '93 R600 or my '96 SR500 wears out, I might try a pair on them just for kicks. Might look a little ugly with the integrated shifter/brake levers at an angle other then 90 degrees, but it will be worth the try.

I've always wanted to try a set of Dirt Drops, but I know I'd find 48cm too wide. I like my handlebar on the narrow side, 40cm or less. Which is kind of different for a big guy.

mtnbke

I don't know who gave you the information that ST400s were only frame sets. That's just not true.

The first year of the ST400 (or different models on the Sport Touring line) was in 1985. Looking through catalogs you'll see all the different specs year-to-year for the ST400 bike builds:

Vintage Cannondale - Cannondale Catalogs

Kelly Take-Offs work great on the Mustache bars. I'm just disappointed with my Nitto Mustache bar begin too narrow. The Nashbar steel Mustache bar is perfect, but doesn't have the same cache. I'm not one of those cyclists that will pretend something I have fits when it doesn't or is good when it isn't. Conversely, neither am I agenda driven to the point where I can't acknowledge when a component that doesn't have high zoot factor is a great component. Would I prefer my Nashbar Mustache bar be manufactured or distributed by Cinellli or Nitto, sure. I'd even be willing to pay $100 for a set if they were. They are that good. As it is I don't complain too much that ordering three more for my other Cannondale tandem and ST builds only came to a little over $30 bucks, I just ordered more tools and kits with the money I saved.

Darth Lefty 

You are aware I'm sure of the newer wider Rivendell variant? Of course its price is several times the steel Nashbar.

Nitto Albastache (new Moustache) Bar 26.0 - 16244

Soma has a few such things, too, in a wider variety of shapes.

mtnbke

Thank you! I had seen those, but I just ignorantly assumed they were still too narrow. The Albastache is only 0.5cm narrower than my Nitto Mustache bars, if I had bothered to look. That's going to be the motivation for me to go Premium to make that trade happen. I'll give up 5mm of width and spend another $80 per bar to get these. Nitto bars were the original spec on my ST800s so these will be perfect. I might keep the steel Nashbar Mustache bars on the tandem. The tandem cockpit is a little more sketchy, and I put a lot more strain on the bars than I do on my single.

D1andonlyDman

Last year, I bought a 3.0 series C'dale Crit frame circa ~1989-1990 to build up as a learning experience, because someone locally was selling one in my size, with several reasonable parts already installed, for $100, and including wheels I already had, my entire build cost me about $200.

What I found was this: The thing is wicked fast. It climbs like an F15. It's also the harshest bike I've ever ridden - and the fastest. But I'm a 55 year-old recreational rider, and I have no use for the thing at all. But if I was racing crits on a budget, I'd ride the thing in every race. But never anywhere else. It is what it is - a bike that is highly optimized for short distance racing. It's noticeably quicker on sprints and climbs than my two best steel bikes (an SLX Tommasini Super Prestige and a Paramount PDG Series 7), and certainly competitive with my Carbon bike (a Trek Y-Foil - which has been banned from most racing). But comfort-wise, it's not in the same league as any of those 3 bikes.

At the end of the day, it taught me what I wanted to learn from it, about Aluminum, and about me as a rider, for a very small investment. I doubt that I'll ever ride the thing again. But that's because I have no intention of racing ever again. If anyone actually wants one of these C'dale Crit bikes (it's 55 cm size), contact me. But you've been warned.

OldsCOOL

I have the '88 Crit and it is my main roadie. Nothing recreational about it. The harder you ride it, the more you appreciate it. Fast, indeed. You can feel pedal surges.

pastorbobnlnh 

My nephew is visiting from TN. This morning he races the bike leg on a team for the local sprint triathlon. Last night we dialed in my '93 R600 for him to ride. Once again, he is psyched to race on my "rocket ship" (as he calls it). He raced in his college days and continues to ride quite a bit (both road and MTB), and currently works for Lynskey Performance (makers of the original Litespeed), so knows a thing or two about high performance bikes.

Three years ago when he last did this race he clocked the fastest bike time on my R600. I'll post later how he does this time around.

himespau 

Yeah, that's right. It was the ST300 that came out the year before that was a frameset only. I get them mixed up in my head, because I was trying to ID the frame I'm working on and it had a serial number indicating a 1984 build date, but characteristics found on the ST400 rather than the ST300.

gugie 

Try it, you'll like it! I ride 42s at ~50psi on my weekend bike, it helps A LOT with crappy roads. There's been a lot of study on what makes a fast tire recently, and skinny ain't it.

pastorbobnlnh 

Nothing like quoating yourself!

My nephew rode the second fastest time on my R600, 12 seconds off the best bike time, by a guy on a CF Time Trail Machine, wearing a skin suit and a pointy helmet. So I guess it is a "rocket ship." His average speed was 21+ mph.

mtnbke

But how could he stand it, going so fast with that "harsh" ride the whole time?

mtnbke

One of the most knowledgeable people around in our tandem community, TandemGeek, on these forums knows all about rolling resistance and what makes a faster tire is lower rolling resistance, not a narrow tire. Interestingly when you read his blog posts he still seems to stick with the "narrows" because he likes how they feel, I mean he sticks to just Vredsteins in a given size not just any tire in that size. I think someday he'll permanently upsize. For some cyclists being able to carve corners faster might be more important than just lower rolling resistance and going faster overall.

But you are right, super skinny tires are being revealed to NOT necessarily be faster. Wider tires with lower pressures that have lower rolling resistance than a given skinny (with higher pressures) are actually faster.

gugie 

Damn, didn't think I'd see the day when you'd say I was right about something. Thanks!

OldsCOOL

A good way to continue where you left off.

pastorbobnlnh 

Well beaten--- indeed!!!

websterrr

I came across this frame from 1989 according to the SN. I've never seen this paint job before on one of their road frames though. Has anyone else? I've seen similar paint on some of their old mountain bikes.