silvercreek

Just when you thought it was over.

After all of the discussions about my '78 Schwinn Campus Green Paramount and considering that Campus Green was not an optional color in 1978, would it be reasonable to assume that this was most likely a special ordered frameset? I realize there were comments about the possibility but if it wasn't a special ordered frameset it could have only been a 1978 serialized factory Campus Green P13-9.

What would the chances be that a stock factory built '78 Paramount could have been painted with a previous year color or it was serial numbered wrong and it's really a '77?

Just throwing this out there for discussion about the most probabilities. Or, is a Provenance Report in order to find out for sure?

lostarchitect 

Does it cost a lot to get a report from Waterford? If not, I'd see if you can get one.

bicyclridr4life

Does Waterford still exist or have the records?

sailorbenjamin

It really needs that clear green Hunt Wilde grip tape.
Pretty bike whatever it is.

AZORCH

I recently called Waterford for information about the paint on my Paramount. To my shock, Richard Schwinn himself contacted me with the information. Whether or not they still have the records for '78, I don't know. But Waterford definitely still exists. (They built my recently shipped Boulder.)

silvercreek

I think I heard it's around $50 for a Provenance Report.

mbbiker

https://waterfordbikes.com/w/services/provenance

Lewis_Moon

That's the price I've also herd. I asked Mr. Schwinn how much it would cost to look up my '83 and he indicated that record keeping during that period could be sketchy.

lostarchitect 

I'd go for it. I'm also going to get a copy of the original build card for my JRJ from the Bob Jackson factory for 20 GBP.

AZORCH

The thing about Bob Jackson is that you may get a different cost quote every time you make contact. (At least that has been my experience. I finally gave up after getting inconsistent responses.)

lostarchitect 

I have it in writing!

Bill Kapaun

Could it be a VERY late 77?

seedsbelize 

I have an early '84 (April) Letour Luxe, painted brown, an option only available in '85. Things happen.

dddd

+1

I have a lot of experience with Schwinns that have both color and parts anomalies with respect to catalog specification, so as far as I am concerned, the catalog spec's should always be taken as +/- 1 year, depending on what time of year the frame was numbered.
Schwinn never intended that the customer would later be referring to the serial number to match their bike to a catalog, and changes in production methods and parts inventories were happening year-round.
They just weren't all that concerned with model year specification back then. Inventories and orders of parts and colors were apparently given far more consideration than having the serial number date agree with that year's catalog spec's, and likely the inventory people (parts), manufacturing people (paint) and marketing people (catalogs and orders) were operating independently to a degree.
It sometimes seems that almost half of the Schwinns out there have mixed-year spec's.

kc0yef 

+1

wrk101

Realize catalogs are printed well ahead of actual production. So decisions get changed, plans modified, different deals with vendors, or whatever.

silvercreek

Well I ordered a Provenance Report for the Paramount. They told me it would be a couple of weeks. We will see whose guess was the closest.

silvercreek

I don't think so with a '78 serial number E7824/1598.

Rabid Koala

I wonder if they give quantity discounts........

silvercreek

I sure would like to see a picture of your 1973 Paramount P-15 Opaque Blue.

DavidW56

+2

I had a '71 Super Sport in Sunset Orange, that the catalog, conventional wisdom and some members of this forum all agreed could not be a '71 in that color originally. But there it was.

cudak888 

None, I asked. Got a reply about "economies of scale" and such. Guess he isn't interested in giving me a break off the $200 bill he could stick me with for digging out four pieces of paper.

-Kurt

Metacortex

I've been thinking that the '71 Super Sport and Sports Tourer "Orange" was really Sunset Orange and not Kool Orange as has been the previous wisdom. I've been looking for evidence to this effect, and it seems you might have it, that is if you are saying your '71 was Sunset and not Kool Orange. If I could see a '71 "Orange" in person I would know for sure. In any case, I think the jury may still be out on this...

pastorbobnlnh 

Silvercreek,

If you followed my thread about the 1975 Sports Tourer I recently bought off VT-CL, one of the mysteries which came to light is that different model year Sports Tourers and Superiors, wore the same letter code in their serial number, "GJ" or July 1973.

mkeller has a "GJ" 1977 Superior. reggieob has a '75 Sports Tourer with a "GJ." mparker also had a "GJ" in a '73 color.

So I echo what dddd states above, "back in the day" Schwinn was not very concerned about what we might be curious about in the early 21st Century!

silvercreek

Thanks for the input Bob.

I order a provenance report and had a brief discussion withsomeone at Schwinn Waterford. They indicated to me that it was very likely that my '78 Paramount P13 was ordered by a bike dealer with the Campus Green color. As you mentioned, Schwinn wasn’t a very good records keeper nor did they follow their own guidelines very well. What still puzzles me is the star stamp on the under-side of the BB housing.