View Poll Results: Is it New Old Stock?
Yes, it looks to be NOS.
12
32.43%
No, it isn't NOS.
12
32.43%
Possible shop build but not really used much.
9
24.32%
I really have no idea... I've smelled too many bicycle chemicals... oh look, puppies...
4
10.81%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll
Does this really look NOS to you?
#1
Panasonic Nut
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Does this really look NOS to you?
I've been keeping my eyes open for NOS Sante components for my '89 Panasonic PICS Team Custom build and this listing recently popped up on eBay. Trouble is (aside from the price) is that it almost looks as if it has been used to me. Take a look and let me know what you think.
#2
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Looks new to me.
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Looks to me that it was installed on a bike, but never really ridden. But IMO a chain has touched the parts.
So no, that's not the definition of NOS.
So no, that's not the definition of NOS.
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#5
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Freewheel definitely looks used!
Shifters possibly look used.
Cranks look new!
Seller seems questionable at best.
Shifters possibly look used.
Cranks look new!
Seller seems questionable at best.
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Looks new but possibly some usage on the freewheel. The NOS wouldn't worry me though if the price was right.
#7
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I agree the cranks and FW certainly have some use hard to tell on the derailleurs. Do the shifters have the little things to cover the cable end?
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#9
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Definitely not NOS from the looks of the crank and FW. I suspect there will be scratches in the inner part of the FD cage too. Cranks and FWs and the FD cage usually show the earliest wear on a component group The seller should just say "very low miles" on it as lots of knowledgable potential buyers will be turned off by the inaccurate description.
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#10
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Obvious rust on the attachment allen bolt on the RD. Freewheel has obvious wear as well.
Most overused term on ebay: "NOS". And when I am buying, I avoid NOS stuff on ebay. First, its almost always NOT NOS. So why do sellers use it? Because NOS stuff goes high, real high, compared to other auctions.
I do not have any NOS bikes, so I really do not need NOS parts. I really don't get the attraction. And even if you score NOS stuff, as soon as you mount it to your bike, it is no longer NOS.
Most overused term on ebay: "NOS". And when I am buying, I avoid NOS stuff on ebay. First, its almost always NOT NOS. So why do sellers use it? Because NOS stuff goes high, real high, compared to other auctions.
I do not have any NOS bikes, so I really do not need NOS parts. I really don't get the attraction. And even if you score NOS stuff, as soon as you mount it to your bike, it is no longer NOS.
#11
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Sure enough, a quick search shows this seller has 26 items for sale, 18 include the term "NOS" in the title...... Buyer beware.
The classic is the NOS Schwinn Speedster he sold recently. Well, first, it did not have a Speedster chainguard. Reading the text of the ad, he admits to using a Racer chainguard, as it was "all he had available". Then later, he admits that only "some of the parts" are NOS. Oh yeah, and some of those parts are not correct for a Speedster. So lets see, if you use available parts that you have on hand (some of which are new), and you randomly put them on another bike, does that turn that bike into NOS?
This all reminds of the guy that had the Harley with over 1 million miles on it! Well, in talking with him, the frame had been replaced several times, and the motor, a dozen times or more, and the wheels, lights, gauges, etc. Turned out the only thing with 1 million miles on it was the VIN tag....
The classic is the NOS Schwinn Speedster he sold recently. Well, first, it did not have a Speedster chainguard. Reading the text of the ad, he admits to using a Racer chainguard, as it was "all he had available". Then later, he admits that only "some of the parts" are NOS. Oh yeah, and some of those parts are not correct for a Speedster. So lets see, if you use available parts that you have on hand (some of which are new), and you randomly put them on another bike, does that turn that bike into NOS?
This all reminds of the guy that had the Harley with over 1 million miles on it! Well, in talking with him, the frame had been replaced several times, and the motor, a dozen times or more, and the wheels, lights, gauges, etc. Turned out the only thing with 1 million miles on it was the VIN tag....
Last edited by wrk101; 05-18-12 at 10:26 AM.
#12
Keener splendor
This set has been used. There's obvious chain wear on the freewheel. There is mild chain wear on the chainrings. The rear derailleur has been mounted and there are scratches at the cable set screw. There is also wear on the jockey wheels.
I do not know what a Sante set is worth, so you'll have to make that decision.
I do not know what a Sante set is worth, so you'll have to make that decision.
#13
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Don't risk it. In fact, as a favor to you I will take PICS frame off your hands. It will help you avoid making such an ill advised purchased. I will PM my address. You can thank me later.
#14
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And by the way, wouldn't a 7 Speed Dura Ace freewheel have the wrong spacing for Sante shifters? I was under the assumption that Dura Ace was its own thing and incompatible with other indexed shimano until 9 speed.
??
??
#15
Senior Member
I know the Sante freewheels used the Dura Ace freewheel bodies. I think the color/finish of the cogs was the only difference. Perhaps Sante=Dura Ace with regard to cog spacing, RD throw and shifter cable pull.
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#17
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The only thing special about Dura-Ace, as far as the "spacing" issue, is that the shifter moves the cable a little less, and the rear derailer's actuation ratio makes up for it by moving a bit further for any given cable movement.
So Dura-Ace shifters and derailers are generally to be kept together when straight-forward parts swaps are made.
The Dura-Ace freewheels, both 6 and 7-speed, have the very same spacing as all other Shimano 6 and 7-speed freewheels, including Sante.
The Sante freewheel shares it's design quite closely with the Dura-Ace freewheel. Very good stuff imo.
In 1997, with the introduction of 9-speeds, the Dura-Ace shifters and derailers were made to be compatible with the other existing and future gruppos.
The weird Dura-Ace-only indexing originated with Shimano's very first SIS gruppo in ~1984.
Savvy mechanics learned that you could attach the cable to the opposite side of the anchor bolt, allowing non-Dura-Ace derailers (including MTB derailers) to work with the Dura-Ace shifters.
The first 9-speed Dura-Ace derailers included instructions on how to install the cable for use with the earlier "weird" Dura-Ace shifters, by routing the cable around the anchor bolt washer's bent tab.
So Dura-Ace shifters and derailers are generally to be kept together when straight-forward parts swaps are made.
The Dura-Ace freewheels, both 6 and 7-speed, have the very same spacing as all other Shimano 6 and 7-speed freewheels, including Sante.
The Sante freewheel shares it's design quite closely with the Dura-Ace freewheel. Very good stuff imo.
In 1997, with the introduction of 9-speeds, the Dura-Ace shifters and derailers were made to be compatible with the other existing and future gruppos.
The weird Dura-Ace-only indexing originated with Shimano's very first SIS gruppo in ~1984.
Savvy mechanics learned that you could attach the cable to the opposite side of the anchor bolt, allowing non-Dura-Ace derailers (including MTB derailers) to work with the Dura-Ace shifters.
The first 9-speed Dura-Ace derailers included instructions on how to install the cable for use with the earlier "weird" Dura-Ace shifters, by routing the cable around the anchor bolt washer's bent tab.
Last edited by dddd; 05-18-12 at 10:55 AM.
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Freewheel: 100% used
Everything else: Looks like 'take-offs'. Not NOS, not new. But probably as close as your going to get.
Make sure the shifters have the little fancy cable covers.
Everything else: Looks like 'take-offs'. Not NOS, not new. But probably as close as your going to get.
Make sure the shifters have the little fancy cable covers.
#20
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Most NOS stuff I have bought have some very slight "shelf wear", just because of the age of the components and I usually can clean them up enough that it does not make too much of a difference. and I'm usually aware of it before I bid on the item and make sure that any slight blemishes I see in the pics is not in/on the typical wear areas that develop when the component is mounted and used on the road. I never ever buy anything without seeing enough pictures to make me comfortable with what I'm paying for.
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#21
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Correction: NOS = New Old Stock. Meaning old merchandise that was never sold to an end consumer. At least that's what it means to me. I've not bought much NOS stuff, but the stuff I have purchased as NOS has been still in its original packaging, never opened. Old, but not used. NOS.
#22
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I thought NOS meant "Not Old Shiet".....
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#23
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Kind of as I was suspecting. It is quite nice but not really NOS from what I could tell. Seemed like a likely shop demo build or something which I am OK with but I certainly wouldn't proclaim it as truly NOS if that were the case.
I've already got several of those components anyway so I can't see paying $300 for the lot. Thanks for the input guys.
I've already got several of those components anyway so I can't see paying $300 for the lot. Thanks for the input guys.
#24
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Kind of as I was suspecting. It is quite nice but not really NOS from what I could tell. Seemed like a likely shop demo build or something which I am OK with but I certainly wouldn't proclaim it as truly NOS if that were the case.
I've already got several of those components anyway so I can't see paying $300 for the lot. Thanks for the input guys.
I've already got several of those components anyway so I can't see paying $300 for the lot. Thanks for the input guys.
#25
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