veyrf

I bought this bike and wondering the origin of the repainted frame. I can't identify it.

Components include 79`rear Weinmann brake and Shimano 600 derailleurs. And yes, it has a campy drops.




Thanks for your help.

unworthy1

That BB shell is distinctive but I'm blanking on where I've seen it before. What threading is the BB? and while at it: what size seatpost? Fork looks like a later replacement. Stay end details are also distinctive: European but can't be more specific at this time.

veyrf

Seatpost is 27.2, BB threading - don`t know yet. Fork has the same number as the frame so think it`s original. Someone told me it might be KTM or something british, go figure.

unworthy1

So much for my mis-matched fork theory. Given that seat post it's not French, probably not Swiss (that was one place I might have guessed due to the pointy stay ends), still could be Austrian (didn't know KTM ever made bicycles, but guess they did) though doesn't look like typical Austrian brands we see: A-D, Puch, Steyr, Capo...and I wouldn't rule out British or even Dutch. Any markings on either BB cup? how about just the width of the shell: either 68mm or 70mm (so your measurement has to that accurate).

veyrf

Left BB cup marks - Sugino 35xP1 and the width of the shell is 68mm

As for KTM bicycles - https://www.ktm-bikes.at/

unworthy1

The things we miss here in parochial USofA: every KTM I've ever seen is a motorcycle.
Well, my average is going to suffer a bit more: that's a French threaded cup, one might conclude it's a French frame but what's odd is that you have 27.2 seatpost which usually means an "Imperial" dimension seat tube (if 531 or Columbus). Most French builders would use metric dimensioned tubing (as would most Swiss). Therefore, I'm going back to Austrian: they've been known to use all 3 types of BB threading at one time or another: French, BSC and even Italian on the "Bianchi Puchs"...might even be an Austrian frame with Swiss BB, but can't think of an example.
The BB shell (style as well as number stamping) seems like the best clue, I'll dig around and try to ID it: seems like it might be sand-cast, but don't think it's a Georg Fischer.

puchfinnland

It is not AD or PUCH.
they never did the brake cable braze ons
- my thinking is Brittish or Benelux countries


IT COULD HELP US KNOWING WHERE YOU ARE????

Oldpeddaller

I'd have said Falcon or Viking from the UK, but if the BB is French threaded then it's unlikely. BB shell doesn't look Italian styled if it's from the 1970's.

WickedThump

I think my mid 90's Falcon had the cable guides next to the stops like the ones in the picture.

veyrf

To unworthy1 - why do you think that`s a French threaded cup? I`ve read somewhere that it might be both French and Swiss?. Also think that the BB shell is the key but never saw the one like this.


To puchfinnland - I`m from Ukraine though don`t know how it can help. Here we have (or had) our own bike builders: https://bikecult.com/works/archive/03.../takhionV.html

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A5%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0 %B0%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B4

https://tourist.kharkov.ua/xtarticle/Velosipedue_HVZ_Katalog




This frame I bought from a man who didn`t know what it is, he was selling it as "aluminium" (cause it is light) import from Germany and didn`t know what it`s worth so guess it was a bargain (especially considering this years local popularity of fixed\single speeds).

unworthy1

It's French (very tiny chance it's Swiss) because of the info stamped on that fixed cup: 35 x P1 means FR threading, and I'm pretty sure that Sugino would add an "S" to that if it is Swiss (and has LH threading). And the width is 68mm. You'll know for sure when you try to unscrew it: if it's conventional RH threading or LH, you'll find out the only way.

I did a quick visual search of BB shells and haven't found anything exactly like that one, but seen a couple that are sort of similar, and so I'm going to present another idea: it might be German. Don't know enough about German brands (not many around, especially in the US) to know if they would use FR threading in a BB, but perhaps somebody here knows.
Is the headset a standard threading (British/Italian/ISO) and the stem quill a 22.2mm, or is the stem quill 22.0mm?

BTW: there was a thread earlier this year for a Takhion time trial bike for sale, I think I might have "outed" that one. Very interesting bikes and history!

veyrf

Found something (I guess). Here some info on +GF+ BB:

https://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2/cinelli-lugs-19760-4.html
https://www.cinelliregistry.com/ - 4 bikes with +GF+ BB
and https://www.swissbicycles.com/allegro...tory-pre-1940/

If it is Georg Fischer BB then those other marks "818" might be the year and month of production.

unworthy1

Well I'll be gob-smacked! I didn't look closely at that shot of the underside of your BB shell, now that I do I see it's stamped +GF+, and yes that IS a Georg Fischer...don't know why I assumed it was not, but it doesn't look exactly like the GF shell on my '75 Allegro, so I just assumed. Wrong.
Anyhow, it's sand-cast and a well-respected make, but doesn't necessarily mean a Swiss manufacturer made the frame, since Fischer shells were used in several countries (obviously by Cinelli in Italy for one, as you have found).
The other little detail that reminded me of "Swiss" is how the stay tips (where joined to the DOs) are pointed. This was something I've seen on several Swiss frames, but it's a pretty weak clue to hang anything on.
The 818 (if you're thinking 1981) doesn't jibe with what I think is the likely age of this frame: the long Campay DOs, the nutted brakes and cable routing/bits all are more "'70s" than '81...but one question: do those Shimano 600 shifters use the unique Shimano boss (round with a rectangular "tab") or are they conventional square?