DsmBerg

Just obtained this GR. Components look good (although bearings are yet-unopened) but paint is horrible on the top tube, other places the paint is salvageable with some work and maybe some black touch up paint. The RD says 71 and the plastic headbadge indicates earlier than 75, I think.





This leads me to a few questions.

(1) Is this a French BB? The amount of conflicting information on this issue (and Grand Records in general) is breathtaking. I have learned that if there is a single band around the spindle and no "G" then it is French. Is this accurate for any brand of fixed cup or just certain makers? The cranks are TA if that makes a difference.

(2) Has anyone done touch up work on this silver Motobecane paint? I am thinking of repainting the top tube and finessing the rest and I would be interested if anyone has had luck matching this paint, either with duplicolor, professional auto, or even model paint for the smaller chips.

(3) My clear coat has turned to sticky dust in a few places as seen in this photo. Does anyone have experience removing and feathering this problem to look somewhat normal? I have had a bit of success with my thumbnail and a 3M finishing/buffing pad, but it's slow going. Rubbing compound discolors the underlying paint and I am wary about throwing solvents at 40 year old paint. My goal would be to just remove the clear where it has softened and then wax the bike to provide protection.



(4) Is it sacrilege to restore this bike with a repaint? If I did repaint, is there any reason for resale purposes to duplicate factory colors? It seems like a repaint is a repaint, even if it looks original. I have seen one redone in white with gold decals and detail striping and it was really something. I also like the classic silver and black or red and black, though.

I want to get it cleaned up and ride if for awhile before I explore the painting option. I rode it for a bit before pulling the seat and cables and it was really, really great. Shifters worked perfectly after a little cable tightening. No signs of significant wear on most of the components which makes the paint issue a little confusing. It's like someone rode it a few times, covered it in acid, and then left it in a basement for 30 years.

Thanks in advance
-Erik

Geo_08

I believe the BB is french, but don't quote me. I was told so on my GR, which was a 73.

Make sure you get the right sized crank puller before you pull those TA cranks. They are an oddball size.

mparker326

I've had 2 early to mid 70's GR and the BB's were both French. My clear coat did the same as yours. I've just left it. If you are just going to have a nice rider, I wouldn't worry about the paint.

YoKev

Nice looking bike! Do you have the seat?

Check out this recent thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...e+grand+record

DsmBerg

The seat had been replaced but there is a slim (meaning no) chance the seller will call me if she stumbles upon it. She thought it was in the house but couldn't find it.

I have a B17 in my collection that is in bad shape that may be a band-aid replacement. I will probably put a nicer leather riveted seat on it to keep it somewhat appropriate.

I enjoyed the Grand Record thread and I actually had put this one on there before I posted this separate thread with my questions - didn't want to high jack the other thread. Good info in there.

YoKev

Ah, I see it there! Sorry, the silver ones on Page 2 blended together.

unworthy1

Yes it's got to be earlier than '75, and likely earlier than '73. Good chance it's a match to the '71 RD. I'm surprised there's a clear coat on paint from that early, but if that's what it looks like then chances are it's clear lacquer: does it cover ALL the paint (including the black lugs, gold lining and decals)? I'd hesitate to recommend any chemical solvent experiments, but if you are game you might try a little work on something that doesn't show and a Q-tip. The fork steerer would be perfect if it has original paint...you could see if thinner does anything, then move to acetone or lac thinner (which WILL remove lacquer). I might just use a good cleaner wax but rub gently and then live with the results.
Nearly 100% certain that your BB will be FR threading.
These are great bikes, congrats!

jonwvara 

Beautiful bike--I have one in the same color, but with the enameled headbadge. I wouldn't paint it, because I'm not painting mine, which looks to be a little worse than yours.

DsmBerg

Thanks for the info Unworthy1,

Lacquer... that makes perfect sense. I was really baffled by this, having worked with quite a bit of auto paint in the past. Lacquer is new to me. I will experiment with some of the ideas here.

The "clear" covers the silver, the downtube decals, not the seat tube decal or whats left of the Reynolds stickers, and the chrome on the fork blades. It is not on the lugs, including the silver lug at the seatpost, but it does cover the black seat tube stripes. It has held up well on the seat tube, chainstays and fork but not the headtube top tube or downtube.

1 Lugnut

I think your's is earlier than my '74 GR (as stated in other Moto thread). HT Badge pre-dates it. Very early 70's, my guess. You might plow through the Moto Catalogue's to get you closer. I believe my GR has French Threads. I haven't messed w/ it for years. I forget...might be Swiss Threads though? I replaced the orig Stronglight BB w/ A Campy one when I 1st got the bike 30-something years ago (BB size chart). I still have the orig. I will check....

There's also a few listed on Ebay, although most are mid-70's models. The HT badge is key to ID'ing what year yours is...!

Your paint scheme is nearly identical to mine, save for the reversed color scheme on headtube/lugs! Yes, it looks as though the clear-coat is peeling off yours. Might be salvageable if done right. Someone was just talking about removing the top coat on a Tomassini frame, revealing a stellar paint job underneath. Decals are available for a restoration. I did repaint the forks w/ a can of Metallic Silver spray paint from a Hobby shop also. They got pretty scratched up when I working on them, The match was dead-on! But I didn't clear-coat them.

due ruote 

Lovely bike. I would be very, very reluctant to repaint it, given that the underlying paint is in such nice condition. Search the web, and talk to auto paint shops, especially small private ones that have been in business for a long time. If you can find an art conservator who will talk to you, they might have some useful insight. Painting conservation is all about working on one layer and not disturbing the underlying ones.

1 Lugnut

Out of curiosity & because it's a rainy day here in SF, I decided to pull the BB out to check & service it, since it hasn't been done for quite some time. I always knew that the fixed cup was not a Campy cup, but a Tange. Going through my parts, I found two 35x1 fixed Campy French cups for the drive side (RH threads) . I thought, great...easy swap! Even though I have the Campy BB wrenches, I couldn't remove the Tange fixed cup. So I took it over to the LBS & even they struggled to finally get it off for me...Only to find out it's left-hand threads. That brought it all back to me of why I left the Tange cup in there in the 1st place.

So there you have it. Some French bikes have Swiss Bottom Brackets (left-handed threaded fixed cup). I was actually tightening the da** thing...sigh!

If anyone knows where I can get a Campy cup for the drive side to fit my Grand Record...LMK

Rich

eschlwc

'i have seen one redone in white ... it was really something.'

i've seen one too, on the seattle craigslist (vancouver, wa). it's been listed for months. listed as a mb gr with full campy, i wondered, 'why would anyone paint a gr white, then expect to get $800 for it?' of course, over time, expectations diminish.

i see no problem repainting it (if all else fails), but the silver and black is worthy of keeping. if it were a strange early '80s color, one could understand repainting it something different.

post some fine pics when you're done. good luck.

1 Lugnut

Another member (Yellowdog76) posted pics of a Grand Record he fixing-up that looks just like yours...!
It's in the: Show Your Motobecane Grand Record thread.

ftwelder

I used small bits of maroon scotchbrite soaked with a liquid abrasive designed for prepping plastic car bumpers paint. It's difficult to do a good job. The main reason I spent so much time trying to save the original paint was the lug lining. It would be difficult to find someone that could do that.


8 028 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr

Chicago Al 

You mentioned using rubbing compound; 3M makes or at least used to, at least three grades of compounds for auto finishing: basic rubbing compound, 'swirl mark remover' which is finer, and 'Imperial Hand Glaze,' the finest of all, which also has some kind of oil or filler material for scratches.

My own GR, black/red, had basically sound paint with scratches, but also some dull and cloudy places, and the Swirl Mark Remover and elbow grease on a rag worked pretty well on those. I was working on it for a couple of hours yesterday. In one small cloudy area it seemed I was taking off a clearcoat, but with some more buffing that disappeared and it did not spread, so maybe there was not a clearcoat or if I did remove it the edge is completely feathered.

FWIW I would agree about keeping the original paint, but I completely understand you wanting it to be 'just so,' aged but not ugly.

DsmBerg

I will try the finer rubbing compound. I have made a little progress using a technique similar to ftwelder's above. The 3M white buffing pads work pretty well because this stuff is so flaky in places. I agree on the pinstriping, there's just no way to replace that. After a few hours in the garage I think it would be a shame to sandblast this thing. It is looking cleaner already and will be better with the components removed and cleaned.

I would like to fill in the small gaps in the black script downtube logos. Has anyone done this with a paint pen or model paint? Any tips would be appreciated. I think I trust my hands enough to make some very short lines. I think the chips in the decals grab your eye and make the whole bike seem much junkier than it is.


I still think I have to get the top tube repainted. My plan is to take it somewhere to see if they can get the color close, then tape it off inside the lugs and have the tube sprayed. After that, I will place the cable clips over the tape lines for a disguise. May or may not get the Grand Record decals to replace. The difference in paint might be noticeable to my wife but no one else is going to care!

unworthy1

if you go for a partial repaint: there are many auto pant shops that can take an electronic "scan" of you original paint and come up with a formula to match it, then can put paint in a custom rattlecan, It's much more $ than just getting a can of Duplicolor or Rustoleum off the shelf, but should be a better match, plus might be genuine automotive enamel which could be a plus.
If you mask the lugs yourself, better than trying to use tape on those curly-cues get some "friskoid" liquid frisket from an art supply shop: paint it over the lugs and lining, let dry...should peel off cleanly after spraying the silver (mask the rest of the frame with paper and tape, of course).

DsmBerg

Cool I will check this stuff out! As for the custom can, that's probably the way to go.

ftwelder

My paint still has many flaws but the bike still shows nicely. I wouldn't worry about it. Your bike is nice.

jonwvara 

I agree. It's not at all easy to do a paint repair that's an improvement on the pre-repair appearance. Of course, I'm unusually lazy.