atalamark

Folks-

I was gonna post about this bike later, once had it together and had better pics but I've run in to a problem.

I've got this old Motobecane Le Champion, I'm thinking this one is very early, its well used but I'm gonna restore and ride it as is.

The bottom bracket was rough, I borrowed a Stronglight puller and got the crank arms off and I'm faced with a bottom bracket I haven't seen before. Its unmarked and it appears as though there is no fixed cup? I took pics of both sides (pardon the crappy flash pics, no light here).

The outer cups are splined all the way around.

What the heck is this and how the heck do I get it off?

Help would be awesome.

(Oh for dating this baby here's the parts: 3T stem/bars, Universal brakes/levers, Stronglight crankset and headset, Lyotard pedals, brooks saddle, Campy derailleur front and replacement Shimaon rear)

thanks!

mark

1 Lugnut

Not sure about this, but Ill take a stab...Late 60's frame?
Phil Wood Maybe...?
Removal tool

atalamark

I took some time to clean the schmutz off around the outter cups on the bottom bracket and I can make out some letters, I can't be 100% but it seems like: MRC 1503 SFZ USA

Not ringing a bell for me thats for sure!

mark

auchencrow

I think you have this.

I would replace it with a new set of Fr cups from Harris (halfway down this page) and a SL spindle.

atalamark

Yeah, looks like its a low end cartridge style setup. I got a buddy dropping off some tools in the morning as well as a box of French bottom brackets, cups, spindles. Looks like I'll have to start fresh!

mark

sailorbenjamin

Hmm. Aint never seen a green Le Champion before. Purty.

repechage

Not very low end at all, its is a Phil Wood bottom bracket, buy the tool from Phil or Park or others and contact Phil, get it serviced, New bearings essentially for a reasonable fee and run it for another decade, or two.
About $140 new. About $40 plus shipping to service. Yes, this is the early style unit but I kind of like them better as the bearings are just a tad larger in diameter.

atalamark

This is Phil Wood? Wouldn't it say so on the unit?

On another idea altogether I measured the bike out, I new it was 58cm c-c on the seat tube but its super short on the top tube, 55cm! Can't wait to ride this baby, hopefully tomorrow.

mark

wayback

Don't suppose you could post a pic of the headbadge on that bad boy?

cudak888 

Phil Wood. In fact, given that it's probably a French BB and that it's been there for a number of years, a Phil BB is the only possible sealed unit it could be. VO's French-threaded sealed BB's didn't come out until sometime last year, if I recall right.

Here's one in a rough Raleigh International. Same generic sealed BB appearance, splined on both sides:



-Kurt

repechage

If / when you remove it on the barrel will be one petite Phil logo etched in. In the 70's a Phil bottom bracket was the thinking man's alternative to a smooth bottom bracket alternative to Campagnolo. Back then they made many different lengths and taper specifications to match all the major crank mfgs. and chain wheel numbers.

due ruote 

Me neither. Very cool. Must have lots more pics.

wayback

^ + 1

Charles Wahl

Depending on the year of the Motobécane, it might have French, or might have Swiss, BB threading. Best to find out. The difference is not in pitch + diameter (same as French) but in that the Swiss-threaded fixed (right) cup is left-hand, rather than the French, which used right-hand-threaded cups on both sides. I don't know PW stuff very well (BBs not at all), but it might be marked.

Green machine pictured is definitely 70s (no braze-ons), and Moto did have Swiss in the 70s, because we have a '77 or '78 Grand Jubilé (also w/o braze-ons) that is Swiss-threaded.

rootboy 

I'd be surprised if that's not a late 60's color. BTW Atalamark, does it have decals on it that say "Le Champion"?

repechage

French retaining rings were dye coded way back, but it quickly came off with even casual cleaning.

atalamark

Folks-

Updates here.

I just ordered the PW removal tool, turns out my buddy didn't have it.

I need to contact the folks at PW and see how long the turnaround is for the BB overhaul. I may just pull the thing and have it done with.

In the meantime.........

I just had to ride this thing, I've never even taken it for a spin as it wasn't built up.

I threw the cranks back on, got the chain cleaned up a bit and took a spin. The brakes aren't even hooked up yet, but I live in the country so I can get away with a little danger!

Anyway the bike seems very nice to ride, I wasn't sure about the shortish top tube. I typically ride a 58cm c-c seat tube but never anything with a 55cm top tube.....they did this because it was a racing bike?

I did notice the frame passed the old "hubs disappear when riding on hoods" test, which I know is a pretty old school way of frame fitting, but hey this is an old school bike.

I'll take more pics tomorrow. Gonna get the brakes set up, I have to order bar wrap and I'm also gonna have to wait until I can afford hoods for the Universal levers.

Oh someone asked if it had a Le Chamion decal, it does not, Le Champion is painted on the frame. I haven't noticed a serial number anywhere. Looks to be all chrome underneath. Paint is thin in most spots.
Rear drops are Campy. Just a touch of Reynolds sticker left on the fork. Also an old bike license sticker from Bouldner Co. from god knows when.

thanks for all the help so far, pics tomorrow.

mark in Maine

Charles Wahl

Yes, but unlike a cup-and-cone right cup, there are threads exposed on this one, so with careful cleaning and observation, one should be able to tell which hand the threading is.

1 Lugnut

^^^ My '74 Grand Record has a Left-Hand threaded fixed cup (drive side). I found that out the hard way. Even the boys a the LBS had a hard time loosening what I had inadvertently tightened! So yes, some Motos might be Swiss?

atalamark

Here's pics as promised.

The brake levers in the pics aren't original, I have the Univerals but one is sadly damaged, so I'm using these instead.

I need one more Campy top tube brake housing ring, better wheels (these are mismatched Campy Tippo/Normandy 27s), white brake housing and tape.

Its a fun ride but honestly its too hard to tell yet, the gears aren't hooked up (today) and the chain is wrecked, its skips. Once I figure that out I can go for a real ride.

Folks, can we figure out the age of this baby?

mark

big chainring 

I'm saying 1969 -1970. Never seen a green one. Thats a prize catch. I think you have to change out the rear derailleur. Campy for sure.

Its just great, enjoy it.

rootboy 

It is tough to date those things as Motobecane didn't include color selections in their catalogs that I've seen. It looks an awful lot like the blue and white one someone owns here, can't remember who right now, which I think is a 71-72, though big chainring may be right too. I wouldn't be surprised if it's late 60's.
It might surprise you, I know it did me, that two top tube cable clips may have been original to that bike. I remember commenting to the owner of that blue one that I thought it was a good idea to leave off the middle clip, to preserve the graphics. He said it came that way and I've since seen scans of other early Le Champions with only two cable clips. My Team Champion came with the more standard three.
BTW, if it's only the lever blades which are damaged and you'd like a replacement set, send me a p.m. I have a spare set which are in nice condition, for very little money. Blades only, mind you. No hardware. Only as a set. I have no need for one. But if it's the brake lever bodies which are damaged I can't help I'm afraid. Nice bike.

atalamark

The brake lever body on one is cracked down the middle, when you tighten the brake to the bar it widens and binds the lever to the body. It could be welded but I tried JB Weld and that was a no go. In the meantime I'll try to snag another brake or whole set. Thanks for the offer though!

mark

atalamark

Oh, yeah, forgot to mention that, the Shimano Altus rear derailleur sure isn't original! It does seem to be pretty nice......for sure I'm gonna stalk an affordable Nuovo Record piece at some point......

mark

wayback

The headbadge on your Le Champion looks similar to the one on my '73 Grand Touring:





I could be wrong, but wasn't the "upsidedown house" badge used in 1973 only?
IIRC '72 and earlier Motos had a fancy decal on the headtube.

Anyway, if you can find date codes on a couple of the components you may be able to verify the model year..