Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-27-13, 01:56 AM   #1101
neo_pop_71
Senior Member
 
neo_pop_71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SoCal
Bikes:
Posts: 827
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdefran View Post
Thinking of doing a rando/commuter build with this, drop bar none the less. Waiting for it to arrive..
Hey jdefran,

I picked up a Seneca off Craigslist a couple years ago, I started to mess with it and sacked it in an gave it to the bike mechanic at the LBS. I'd just done a couple Cunningham Nishiki builds, an Alien with Tange Prestige, and an Ariel with full 4130 frame and fork. The Seneca felt hefty but was finished nicely, lugged crown fork and clean welds. The Seneca was the middle model of the 5 bikes offered by Raleigh in 1985. Once I started pulling it apart I noticed that the steer tube is stamped "high-ten" and based on the "Raleigh Reynolds" frame tubing decal, I figured out the stays were high-tensile steel too. Hence, the 32 pound catalog weight that you found on MOMBAT's Raleigh pages. I've built probably 100 bikes in the past 10 years (for myself, family, friends, or to donate to charities... I've gotten very picky about the quality of the frame since space is an issue and I'll only take on lighter weight frames for my personal use. The mechanic at my LBS built up the Seneca, he rode it for a month and sold it. He didn't like the long top tube coupled with the long chainstays and the slack angles. The bike was good for an around town bike but not really trail worthy was his description. If you're planning a commuter build then the Seneca should make for a nice bike with a stable ride.

Good luck ! ! !
neo_pop_71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-13, 07:09 AM   #1102
jdefran 
Senior Member
 
jdefran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Bikes:
Posts: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by neo_pop_71 View Post
Hey jdefran,

I picked up a Seneca off Craigslist a couple years ago, I started to mess with it and sacked it in an gave it to the bike mechanic at the LBS. I'd just done a couple Cunningham Nishiki builds, an Alien with Tange Prestige, and an Ariel with full 4130 frame and fork. The Seneca felt hefty but was finished nicely, lugged crown fork and clean welds. The Seneca was the middle model of the 5 bikes offered by Raleigh in 1985. Once I started pulling it apart I noticed that the steer tube is stamped "high-ten" and based on the "Raleigh Reynolds" frame tubing decal, I figured out the stays were high-tensile steel too. Hence, the 32 pound catalog weight that you found on MOMBAT's Raleigh pages. I've built probably 100 bikes in the past 10 years (for myself, family, friends, or to donate to charities... I've gotten very picky about the quality of the frame since space is an issue and I'll only take on lighter weight frames for my personal use. The mechanic at my LBS built up the Seneca, he rode it for a month and sold it. He didn't like the long top tube coupled with the long chainstays and the slack angles. The bike was good for an around town bike but not really trail worthy was his description. If you're planning a commuter build then the Seneca should make for a nice bike with a stable ride.

Good luck ! ! !
Thanks for the info, I appreciate it! Now I might have thought a little more about my decision if I read this first then again that's all part of being a tinker-er. I believe I got the frame for a decent price and have all the parts to build it up (handle bar might vary) so I figured what the heck. I'll try some dirt drops first and depending on feel, see if moustache bars work better to compenstate for the long top tube. I did however, try to base the size of the bike via top tube..it's 1 cm longer than my commuter (89 Trek 420).

If anything I'll tell my wife this bike will pull the kids' trailer when we have them
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cache View Post
And who doesn't have space for a folding bike??
jdefran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-13, 08:44 AM   #1103
neo_pop_71
Senior Member
 
neo_pop_71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SoCal
Bikes:
Posts: 827
No way man, there would be no reason to second guess the purchase. My reply was going off your original post regarding building the Seneca up as a rando vs. a commuter... it'll make a fine commuter but given the 30+ pound starting weight in the catalog, it would be a hefty rando bike with full racks and panniers. You could certainly outfit it with light weight components and come in under 30 for sure but doing that seems like a lighter frame would be better served so you end up with a bike in the mid-20 pound range. Either way, I dig the idea of reviving any older steel bike and enjoying the custom build... beats the recycle bin and is way cooler than some crappy Chinese Wallyworld bike!!!

I'd caution you starting down the path of justifying bikes to the misses... there's nothing but the stink eye and the dog house waiting for you if you go there!
neo_pop_71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-13, 02:04 PM   #1104
seely
The Rabbi
 
seely's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 5,085
I wouldn't let the hi-ten stays and relatively generic tubing throw you off. My best-riding, most enjoyable bike is a Miyata I got for free that is just double-butted chromoly with hi-ten stays and fork. Couldn't tell you why, but it just is.

As far as weight goes, think of it this way. A complete bike usually weighs between 25 and 30 pounds. A frame is typically around 1/8th the weight of the completed bike, a relatively small percentage. A one pound frame weight difference (considered to be a fairly significant difference) is going to be the difference between a 27 pound bile and a 28 pound bike -- not a big deal. The weight difference makes a fairly negligible impact on your average speed over distance as well, something like a 0.2 mile per hour reduction for 10 pounds difference if I recall correctly.

I think that would make a pretty ideal touring/rando build myself. At 35 pounds, my Schwinn High Plains is no lightweight but I've never once found that it "feels" heavy on the road.
seely is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-13, 05:17 PM   #1105
wrk101
DRF aka Thrifty Bill
Thread Starter
 
wrk101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The NC Mountains
Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue, 87 Cimarron, 14 frame school custom, 73 Paramount
Posts: 19,959
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdefran View Post
What tires are you using? Also, as Frank mentioned, what else did you do to reduce weight?
I saved 2 pounds with tires alone, going from the comfy, fat Kendas to narrow slicks. Went from older freewheel style wheels to a modern freehub style (lighter wheels, lighter cassette), went with a lighter saddle (had a Ti rail racing saddle), even saved a fair amount on tubes, going from heavy 26 x 1.95 Shrader tubes, to 26 x 1.25 presta tubes, saved between 1/4 pound and 1/2 pound going from vintage bear trap pedals with steel cages to modern alloy caged bear traps (pic below, as found, with crappy plastic pedals). Used my standard KMC Z50 chain.

The new pedals were my only purchase, everything else came from the parts pile.

Now the starting weight of my Cimmaron was way over 30 pounds, as it came with rusty steel fenders, broken rack, quad crankset (homemade), old broken light, etc.

As acquired last fall, at a garage sale. I wish I had a picture of it as found, leaning against a tree, at a garage sale. Looked like a real POS, then I saw the Cimmaron model name (WTF), $15, sale had been going for over 3 hours, picked up two bikes at that one:

__________________
See my vintage steel bike tribute page on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/BillsVintageSteelBikes

Last edited by wrk101; 02-27-13 at 05:36 PM.
wrk101 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-13, 05:22 PM   #1106
frantik
Chainstay Brake Mafia
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: California
Bikes:
Posts: 5,966
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
I saved almost 2 pounds with tires alone, going from the comfy, fat Kendas to narrow slicks.
oh... you had those kenda k838s on there huh? those things ARE comfy like you say, but they weight a lot...7-800g range.. Not crazy to hear 2 lbs lost on tires with those
frantik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-13, 05:33 PM   #1107
wrk101
DRF aka Thrifty Bill
Thread Starter
 
wrk101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The NC Mountains
Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue, 87 Cimarron, 14 frame school custom, 73 Paramount
Posts: 19,959
My favorite bike picture, a close up of that crankset, with the homemade chain guard removed. Look closely, and count the chainrings: 1, 2, 3, 4: Huh??? On the outboard side?

McGiver meets Gomer Pile. That crankset, without the 4th ring, is still on the bike today.

As mounted on bike as found:



With the chain guard removed:


wrk101 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-13, 06:59 PM   #1108
Bikedued
Senior Member
 
Bikedued's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 10,540
I'd have rocked the four rings? Just my kind of madness I guess? And the Raleigh? Why NOT use the frame for a rando, like you planned. With a few choice parts selections following the ways of weinieism, I bet that thing could be 27 and change? The wheels on those bikes weighed a TON, to start with, and add fat knobby tires, etc etc...You can imagine it adds up quick? The cannondale I just finished has two sets of wheels. With Pasela Tourguard tires, it weighs 25.01. With Tioga Psycho knobby tires on nearly Identical rims, it weighs 26.06(IIRC) Wheels and tires account for a lot of weight on most bikes?,,,,BD
Bikedued is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-13, 11:51 AM   #1109
neo_pop_71
Senior Member
 
neo_pop_71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SoCal
Bikes:
Posts: 827
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
My favorite bike picture, a close up of that crankset, with the homemade chain guard removed. Look closely, and count the chainrings: 1, 2, 3, 4: Huh??? On the outboard side?

McGiver meets Gomer Pile. That crankset, without the 4th ring, is still on the bike today.


Man alive Bill... every single time I see that Cimarron in the condition you purchased it, I'm filled with different emotions! My initial reaction is always sadness, the thought of what became of a beautiful lugged/fillet brazed American frame! That's about the time that the anger starts boiling, a $900 bike in the 1980's deserves better treatment! Finally, I chill and end up a bit envious of how svelte you managed to thin out your Cimarron. You've inspired me to shoot for the 25 pound mark with one of my Cimarron projects. My Cimarron that was saved from the dumpster, the paint and "Deerhead" XT components cleaned up so nicely, that's one getting outfitted for use as a commuter. So, my other Cimarron that is getting fresh paint and waterslide decals was to be a commuter but now I'll see how feathery I can build it, if I can get close to yours I'll be stoked! I've got a feeling that my other two stock Cimarrons are never going to see the light of day once I'm done with these two custom builds!

Anyway, thanks for the inspiration and the helpful info, you've certainly raised the bar pretty high but it'll be fun to build a skinny Cimarron!

-D-

p.s. Hey Bill, do you know what year your Cimarron was made? My "dumpster" Cimarron is a 1985, my "sanded" Cimarron is a 1988 "LE" model, I have a 1988 "LE" that I bought new ($859.99 plus tax), and a 1989 red one that I bought from my uncle almost 20 years ago. The parts on yours better matches the later models but the green color was only available in 1985 and on the 1988 "LE" model.



http://mombat.org/Schwinn_Specs.htm
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Funktastic_Cimarron.jpg (96.1 KB, 40 views)
File Type: jpg SchwinnSpecs1985.jpg (100.8 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg CimarronFilletBraze.jpg (91.0 KB, 46 views)

Last edited by neo_pop_71; 02-28-13 at 12:57 PM. Reason: added specs
neo_pop_71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-13, 04:37 PM   #1110
wrk101
DRF aka Thrifty Bill
Thread Starter
 
wrk101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The NC Mountains
Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue, 87 Cimarron, 14 frame school custom, 73 Paramount
Posts: 19,959
Mine is a 1988 LE. I'll check the headbadge for a date.

Thanks for the kind words. I always get a kick out of buyers that tell me "how lucky you are to have found a vintage bike in such great condition""It looks like it never left the garage", etc. I almost have to laugh. I pick up neglected bikes (why, because they are often CHEAP), and revive them. The old steel bikes are so resilient.

I did learn to separate my flickr pics into two accounts. Buyers who saw some of the before pics got spooked. Oops!

So if I encouraged even just one person to do it, that's the reward to me.

My favorite turn around is my chrome Katakura. Started as a rust covered frame, picked up from a flipper in Charlotte. Put a lot of work into that bike, starting with a full OA treatment. Then I grabbed all the Superbe Pro parts I had accumulated over the years, and rebuilt it. It was a really fun project.

It takes imagination, but there are deals out there if you have the time/tools/aptitude/interest/pile of parts.

Last edited by wrk101; 02-28-13 at 04:52 PM.
wrk101 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-13, 06:27 PM   #1111
that_guy_zach 
Senior Member
 
that_guy_zach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: omicron persei 8
Bikes:
Posts: 808
Quote:
Originally Posted by that_guy_zach View Post
This one makes 2 Rock Combos now. Gonna get the original drops back on this one soon.
Wanted to hit some trails this weekend.

that_guy_zach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-13, 07:44 PM   #1112
neo_pop_71
Senior Member
 
neo_pop_71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SoCal
Bikes:
Posts: 827
Great bike that_guy_zach! I vaguely remember Rock Combo model but had totally forgotten about it. Cool story behind the frame, sneaky Mike Sinyard getting another NorCal builder, Scot Nicol, to create and answer to Grant Petersen's Bridgestone's MB-1. That guy has got some tires on him!!! It appears that the Rock Combo was only made in 1989, any idea how many are out there? I've never seen one for sale around SoCal in my 25+ years of building bikes. I dig the steep angles of the head tube and seat tube! How does it handle in the drops?

Thanks!

-D-
neo_pop_71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-13, 08:25 PM   #1113
debit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Bikes:
Posts: 230
Nice, that_guy_zach! I'm loving the pink tape on those dirt drops.
debit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-13, 08:16 AM   #1114
Aemmer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: On the trail
Bikes:
Posts: 555
Rock Combo's were pretty darn cool bikes. I am surprised this and the 87 MB1 with drops didn't catch on, being there is so much interest in drop bar Mtb's today.
Aemmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-13, 12:09 PM   #1115
that_guy_zach 
Senior Member
 
that_guy_zach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: omicron persei 8
Bikes:
Posts: 808
Thanks! I have not taken the one pictured out yet with the WTB drops, But they ride great with the stock BB-1 bars. As far as I can tell they made around 500 of them and they were slow sellers. I have 2 now and am always on the hunt for more. They are not super special or magic bikes but they do a good job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neo_pop_71 View Post
Great bike that_guy_zach! I vaguely remember Rock Combo model but had totally forgotten about it. Cool story behind the frame, sneaky Mike Sinyard getting another NorCal builder, Scot Nicol, to create and answer to Grant Petersen's Bridgestone's MB-1. That guy has got some tires on him!!! It appears that the Rock Combo was only made in 1989, any idea how many are out there? I've never seen one for sale around SoCal in my 25+ years of building bikes. I dig the steep angles of the head tube and seat tube! How does it handle in the drops?

Thanks!

-D-
that_guy_zach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-13, 12:36 PM   #1116
koolerb
Senior Member
 
koolerb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Upstate NY
Bikes: Giant Defy 1, and some others
Posts: 891
Here it is, the "Black Fly!" This is going to be my bike for the Black Fly mountain bike race in the Adirondacks in June.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN0820.jpg (64.9 KB, 71 views)
koolerb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-13, 07:16 PM   #1117
striknein
Goes to 11.
 
striknein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wichita, KS, USA
Bikes: 2015 Soma Double Cross
Posts: 2,585
Making slow, but steady progress:



How are you folks running your front brake cable? I'm having a difficult time using the stem's cable stop without putting a tight bend in the cable. Does anyone have some decent shots of their setup with the bars unwrapped?
striknein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-13, 07:20 PM   #1118
hairnet
Fresh Garbage
 
hairnet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Bikes:
Posts: 12,375
I ended up buying one of these Dia Compe cable hangers
hairnet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-13, 07:22 PM   #1119
frantik
Chainstay Brake Mafia
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: California
Bikes:
Posts: 5,966
I like the fork mounted cable stops myself
frantik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-13, 09:20 PM   #1120
Bikedued
Senior Member
 
Bikedued's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 10,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by frantik View Post
I like the fork mounted cable stops myself

I've even seen some with the cable catchers built in lately. It is definitely a bigger deal with knobbies, but still nice to have something there so the straddle cable doesn't end up on the tire. You might freak out a little on street tread, but with knobbies you either end up ripping the brakes off, or flying over the bars, or both.,,,,BD
Bikedued is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-13, 09:58 PM   #1121
wrk101
DRF aka Thrifty Bill
Thread Starter
 
wrk101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The NC Mountains
Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue, 87 Cimarron, 14 frame school custom, 73 Paramount
Posts: 19,959
I like the dia compe style ones as well, but I use the cheaper ones from Niagara. Simple, and they work. The fork mounted option puts your straddle cable pretty low.

Figures, I can't find them on Niagara's page, even though I got some just a couple of weeks ago....







bill
__________________
See my vintage steel bike tribute page on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/BillsVintageSteelBikes
wrk101 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-13, 10:43 PM   #1122
Aemmer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: On the trail
Bikes:
Posts: 555
Aemmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-13, 11:05 PM   #1123
neo_pop_71
Senior Member
 
neo_pop_71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SoCal
Bikes:
Posts: 827
Quote:
Originally Posted by hairnet View Post
I ended up buying one of these Dia Compe cable hangers
I bought one of those NOS Dia Compe just like hairnet. Just recently I came across this Shimano QR hanger and it's $10.00 cheaper but still has the barrel adjuster.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140471426705...84.m1423.l2649

I think these are even cheaper than the Niagara ones that wrk101 posted, I think those were 5 bucks and change without a barrel adjuster.
neo_pop_71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-13, 11:36 PM   #1124
neo_pop_71
Senior Member
 
neo_pop_71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SoCal
Bikes:
Posts: 827
Quote:
Originally Posted by striknein View Post
Making slow, but steady progress:



How are you folks running your front brake cable? I'm having a difficult time using the stem's cable stop without putting a tight bend in the cable. Does anyone have some decent shots of their setup with the bars unwrapped?
I'm really digging the Stumpjumper striknein, it looks like a champ with the black paint and the "Deerhead" XT set up!

I'm on my third build using the drilled stem cable stop, the trick is getting Odyssey BMX steel braided housing, you can make those tight bends with no issues. The housing is part of Odyssey's "Slic Cable" series, there is tubing inside the housing for perfect braking and release. Here is the current build I'm doing with a Nitto high rise quill stem, SOMA Sparrow bars, and Shimano STI brifters. The flexibility allowed me to run the cable in such a way that it did not obstruct the center hand position near the stem. Initially I tried this set up with the steel/alloy flex housing and there was no way for it to make the bend needed to maintain the central hand positioning. Odyssey was all I ran all those years racing BMX and it's still my go to housing on half my builds. Not even the $100.00 Nokon Cables can match the versatility of the Odyssey, my buddy tried and wasted his dough. Here it is on my Smorgasbord track bike, I love the function and the aesthetic of the steel braiding!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SparrowSTI.jpg (96.4 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg SmorSSfront.jpg (102.8 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg SmorSSbars.jpg (87.7 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg SmorSalsaSS.jpg (80.1 KB, 40 views)
neo_pop_71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-13, 11:59 PM   #1125
Sixty Fiver
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
 
Sixty Fiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: YEG
Bikes: See my sig...
Posts: 27,254
Quote:
Originally Posted by striknein View Post
Making slow, but steady progress:



How are you folks running your front brake cable? I'm having a difficult time using the stem's cable stop without putting a tight bend in the cable. Does anyone have some decent shots of their setup with the bars unwrapped?
I use cross levers which makes for a slightly closer bend to the stop on the stem... a traditional hangar should not pose any problems with routing.

These extra levers lets me get back on the bars when I am descending on rougher terrain and allows for a good heads up position while I am riding in the urban jungle too.

The bike stops exceptionally well from either position and the lever action is rather light off the front.

Sixty Fiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:44 PM.