Dawes-man

It's me again! I've just spend a couple of hours photographing, cataloguing and uploading photos of my small collection of vintage Carradice saddlebags to Flickr and think they might be of interest to others. While it's easy to find any number of photos of post-1980s bags on the net, I think I've only found a handful of photos of anything from the 1940s to 1960s and most of them were either of bags in very poor condition or showed very little detail.

I bought my first Carradice new, here in Tokyo about 5 years ago. Since then my taste in bikes has moved steadily back in time, as I know has happened to many people on C&V. I started with a 1979 Dawes and am now building a 1949 Rotrax track bike.

As I have bought older and older bikes, so have I been buying older Carradice saddlebags. Most recently I bought a 1960s bag from the same person I got the Rotrax from. Before that I bought a mid-1940s to 1960 bag rather cheaply on eBay. It came with rotted saddle, seat post and side pocket straps and leather side pocket lid trim that was turning to dust. Otherwise, an utterly, IMO, beautiful saddlebag:

[IMG] Carradice saddlebag - mid-1940s to 1960 / Leeds Road works by Dawes-man, on Flickr[/IMG]

The straps:
[IMG] Carradice saddlebag - mid-1940s to 1960 / Leeds Road works by Dawes-man, on Flickr[/IMG]

And the lid trim:
[IMG] Carradice saddlebag - mid-1940s to 1960 / Leeds Road works by Dawes-man, on Flickr[/IMG]

Now refurbished by the Yellow Brothers, 2 friends from my motorcycling days who have a leather workshop near me in Tokyo. BTW, that's what they call their company. I contacted Margaret at Carradice and got new straps and blank chromed leather strips to re-trim the pocket lids and had my friends replace all the rotten parts. The buckles are original:

[IMG] Carradice saddlebag - mid-1940s to 1960 / Leeds Road works by Dawes-man, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG] Carradice saddlebag - mid-1940s to 1960 / Leeds Road works by Dawes-man, on Flickr[/IMG]

These are the 4 bags featured in my Flickr album:
[IMG] 4 Carradice saddlebags from the 1940s to the 1980s by Dawes-man, on Flickr[/IMG]

And a close up of the 1960s long-flap I mentioned above:
[IMG] Carradice saddlebag - early to mid-1960s, North Street works. by Dawes-man, on Flickr[/IMG]

Does anyone else have any old Carradice saddlebags they'd like to post pictures of? I'd love to see anything pre-1980. The Flickr album is at:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/2298367...th/7505971042/

-holiday76

I do not. I have a interesting older karrimor bag from the 60s though. I can take pics.

Btw I love this thread already!

Dawes-man

Glad you like it... and yes, please! A friend here got a vintage Karrimor saddlebag in like-new condition on YahooAuction Japan for a pittance a few months back - it's a beautiful thing. Next time I see him I'll get a couple photos for this thread.

AZORCH

I've got a Carradice bag that I think is the same as the one you posted. It came to me through one of the folks on the CR list; he thought it dated to the 1950's, but to be honest I really haven't followed up on it.





Other than cleaning it up, I've done nothing to the bag. I had considered getting it waxed, but there's really no reason to do that. I use it to carry some fairly bulky loads.

Dawes-man

What a gorgeous bag!! Thank you so much for posting those pics. I think it's older than the Leeds Road one of mine because of the leather straps going all the way up, while mine has a gap, as well as it simply 'looking' older. Any badge? The name of the road will tell you the period it was made in.

Has yours had any work done on it, like the pocket lids retrimming?

I've just had another look at Steve Griffith's article on Carradice on Classic Lightweights. There's a little advert about halfway down the page from the 1936 catalogue which shows a bag that looks like it has the same straps as yours. I wouldn't be surprised if your bag was pre-war. How nice! I've also realised that the bag I thought was 'to around 1985' can't actually have been made after 1979, as that's when the factory moved out of North Street, which is the works address on the label. Good article, that!

AZORCH

Oddly enough, I just stumbled across that article last week. My bag isn't badged at all, although it is clearly a Carradice. I can't find a faded area for the missing patch either, which either means it was constructed that way, or that it was removed right after it was purchased. As for the piping - or anything else for that matter, I've done absolutely nothing beyond a light dusting. The dowel was long since replaced with a square sided piece of lumber which has worn a friction hole in the canvas where the wood terminates. I keep saying I will stop by the lumber yard to get an appropriate dowel and round off the ends but I never seem to remember to do so when I'm there.

Dawes-man

Just found this on Flickr:
[IMG] A trip to Carradice by Hudsonic, on Flickr[/IMG]

Looks like the leather straps go all around like on yours.

AZORCH

Now that is really cool, and quite a find! I'm going to check the measurements against mine this evening to see if they match up. Wouldn't that be something if this turned out to be an ad for the very saddle?

Alex Moll

Great thread. I love the patina of older used bags. I also love your partial re-furb Dawes-man - very well done. Thanks for starting this thread, and sharing pics and info. I bet the price of vintage Carradice just went up a bit!
Cheers,
Alex

Dawes-man

It's a pleasure Alex! Thank you. I do wonder if posting to blogs and forums raises prices of things...

I've just found this rather nice picture from the cover of a Carradice catalogue from their Leeds Road Works period - I think the bag on the left hand side bike looks like my refurbished one

[IMG] Leeds Rd Catalogue cover by Dawes-man, on Flickr[/IMG]

Dawes-man

Hi AZORCH,

I'm sitting here having another good look at your bag and admiring and thinking... and have a couple of questions, if it's no hassle, and some observations.

Is the pocket lid and inner flap trim leather or maybe fabric? If leather, it looks in pretty good condition compared to the leather trim on the lids of my 2 older bags. And none of my bags has any kind of trimming on their inner flaps. Also, what is that thing which looks like a rivet on the inner flap?

I notice the leather corner reinforcement is smaller than on any of my bags and it gives your bag a finer and lighter look to it. Nice! I also notice that the stitching is white, which Steve Griffith mentions was available on request. That's very nice, too!

The flap inner lining on yours looks like it might be green. Is it! My oldest bag has white while all the others have blue.

Every bag I've got came to me smelling of mould so I've washed them in mild detergent meant for hand washing knitwear and scrubbed them with a soft brush. I was quite surprised how much dirt came out and how black the water. I've also waxed them, using Barbour Thornproof wax as I saw that recommended by Carradice to someone who was quoting an email he got from them, as an alternative to their own wax. I reckon waxing the cloth will preserve it by adding some moisture to the filaments of the threads in the canvas and making them less prone to tearing. I've got an old Karrimor with dried out canvas and it's unusable as it tears easily. Carradice canvas might be very different from Karrimor, though.

I do it by putting the opened tin in a pan of boiling hot water so the wax liquifies and then applying it to the canvas using some old cotton bed sheeting and spread it around as far as it will go, while rubbing it in, before dunking the sheeting in for some more wax. The first time I used an old piece of T-shirt material but that left pieces of cotton from rubbing the rougher canvas. After I've finished the whole bag I go over it with my wife's hairdryer set on hot. It's a meditation to see the wax disappear into the weave of the canvas After waxing the fabric of the bag feels much more pliable, which I think must be a good thing.

YoKev

Drinking my morning coffee, cruising the site, and looking at one of my bikes right beside me. I've got nice Karrimor panniers, are these related to Carradice somehow? A couple of the leather straps need replacing, and, some of the canvas seems to be dried out in places, especially at the buckle mounting points. At this point, will waxing it help at least preserve it for light duty use?

wahoonc

YoKev,

That is a nice set of bags! Karrimor was a contemporary of Carradice, but a different company. I had a set of those bags back in the 1970's. Yes waxing the cotton will help preserve them. Karrimor is still in business, but no longer makes cycling bags.

Aaron

rootboy 

This is a neat, different kind of thread. Nice bags Dawes-Man.

AZORCH

The piping that trims the pockets and inner flaps is fabric, and in pretty darned good condition considering the apparent age of the bag. I would have imagined the piping to take a fair amount of abuse over the years, so Carradice must have used a superior material.

It's an open faced rivet that allows you to tie the right and left flaps down for additional stability. I have a similar sort of arrangement on my Swift Ozette Rando Bag.

Yeah! It is a lovely vintage-ish lime green lining, and one of my favorite things about the bag!

I will likely give the bag a wax treatment - maybe next week since this thread has made it sort of top-of-mind for me. I'll have to look to see where that wax is available. I've seen several recipes for mixing bees wax, paraffin, etc., but it would be prudent (in my mind) to go with a formula recommended by Carradice. DM, if you've treated a large bag previously, how much wax did you wind up using for the process?

Dawes-man

Yeah, given that your fabric trim is in good condition while the leather trim on my oldest bag had disintegrated, and the 2nd oldest shows the start of the same, it seems the cheaper material is better suited to the job. Perhaps that's why Carradice no longer uses leather there... afaik.

So, you have no draw cords sewn onto the the ends of the inner flaps!? All mine do, as in this picture:
[IMG] Carradice saddlebag - mid-1940s to 1960 / Leeds Road works by Dawes-man, on Flickr[/IMG]


However, and although I don't have a photo to post at the moment, the side pockets of this bag each have a couple brass eyelets at the tops of the pockets, presumably for a drawstring to be used in addition to the lids.

Love the green!

The proper name of the wax I used is Barbour Wax Thornproof Dressing. I bought a 200ml tin and have used a little under 50ml for each large bag. I still have around a third left after doing 3 bags. J.Crew does what looks like the same size tin for $12 (which to me is really cheap - it sells here in Japan for around $23). This from the Barbour website:

• How to re-proof your wax product:
• 1.You require a pan of hot water and soft cloth or sponge.
• 2. Choose a warm room or outside on a hot day.
• 3. Stand the tin in hot water to soften dressing.
• 4. Work the dressing well into the garment using the cloth or sponge.
• 5. Pay attention to seams, creases and dry patches.
• 6. Rub in well, don’t just paint on.
• 7. Do not use excess dressing.
• 8. For a 'factory' finish, blow evenly with a hairdryer.
• 9. Hang the garment overnight in a warm place.

Dawes-man

As wahoonc has already answered, 'Yes'.

I notice that your panniers look very similar to the Karrimor saddlebag I mentioned above, but the fabric has actually ripped at the buckle mounting points you mention. I also notice that your bags have the same grey plastic trim on the lids. They look like they were made in the same period except yours have a later style badge than mine. I'll take a couple photos of my saddlebag tomorrow and post them. They are very nice looking panniers you have there!

AZORCH

Nope, mine are drawn through the donut rivets. I'll make some pictures and post later on if I get a free moment.

Um, it's 107 degrees today and supposed to get hotter tomorrow. Hot enough, you think?

Dawes-man

Close up of a side pocket showing 2 brass eyelets for a drawstring and the leather trim.

IMG] Carradice saddlebag - mid-1940s to 1960 / Leeds Road works by Dawes-man, on Flickr[/IMG]

Dawes-man

Here are some pics of the Karrimor saddlebag I got a few months back. The canvas has really dried out, unlike any of the Carradice bags I have. That could just be because of the way it's been stored but I suspect there is a fundamental difference in the canvas used by the respective companies:

[IMG] Untitled by Dawes-man, on Flickr[/IMG]

Particularly as the canvas at the buckle mounting points has ripped on this bag and YoKev reports the same area on his panniers have dried out:

[IMG] Untitled by Dawes-man, on Flickr[/IMG]

Although this bag has the same plastic trim for the pocket lids as YoKev's bags:

[IMG] Untitled by Dawes-man, on Flickr[/IMG]

...it has an earlier name badge:

[IMG] Untitled by Dawes-man, on Flickr[/IMG]

As I mentioned previously, a friend bought the same Karrimor saddlebag as mine in as-new-condition and it's a very handsome thing indeed. Seeing it was the reason I bought this one, which is, unfortunately, beyond repair, IMO. I did consider repairing it but it rips just about wherever you yank the fabric. A very good case for YoKev to give his a good waxing, IMHO.

photogravity

This bag was one that I won on an eBay UK auction a few months back. It has been sitting on the sidelines waiting for me to put it into service which I have finally done by placing it on my Bilenky 650B Constructeur Tandem. I don't remember the specifics of the auction, but it seems the bag was supposed to be from some time in the 70's or 80's. The construction seems to be well done and uses the older pieces of cotton cloth that you tie together instead of the newer style drawstring. One other thing I noticed is that the leather straps on the bag are much thicker than on new Carradice bags.


Carradice Nelson Longflap - 1 by Sallad Rialb, on Flickr


Carradice Nelson Longflap - 2 by Sallad Rialb, on Flickr


Carradice Nelson Longflap - 3 by Sallad Rialb, on Flickr

photogravity

This is another bag that I won on eBay UK a few months back. It has still not been placed into service, but will be soon. This bag is of similar vintage as the Vintage Carradice Nelson Longflap though I don't know for sure since I'm not a Carradice bag expert by any means. All I can say is that it seems quite similar to the other bag with the old style cotton ties and the very thick leather straps.


Carradice Cresta - 1 by Sallad Rialb, on Flickr


Carradice Cresta - 2 by Sallad Rialb, on Flickr


Carradice Cresta - 3 by Sallad Rialb, on Flickr

Shaneferd

Great thread, Dawes-man. I've narrowly missed out on a Carradice Lowdown, and a pair of their frame panniers for my luggage kit.

It's a shame about the moribund condition of your Karrimor canvas, That yellow lined saddlebag would be a perfect match for my rear panniers.
Is there perchance a tag inside the bag that reads Lowdale? That would designate it as a shallower sack for seat/tire clearance.

Mine are all tagged H.W. Carradice, front/rear panniers in black & green. I'd love to acquire a narrow H.W. for my '52 J.Taylor curved tube.

Dawes-man

I am very much looking forward to that! I can wait... I know how it can get


Er, let's see... what's that in C? What!!? The only place I've been that hot is Khartoum in the Sudan, where it was 45C, or... 113 degrees. Yeah, I think that should do it!

Dawes-man

I have the same bag, a Nelson Long-flap, but with Carradice in white on a black background, which made me think it was slightly later than yours (being more of a departure from the white Leeds Road Works and North Street badges) but looking at the reflector construction I think it may be later. It'd be great if there was someone who had bought them both new and remembered when

Another thing that makes me think mine is later is the abbreviation of the factory address to the simpler 'Carradice of NELSON - ENGLAND' as that strikes me as a 'more modern' presentation:

[IMG] Untitled by Dawes-man, on Flickr[/IMG]

I wonder how it goes...

In any event, I think it's safe to say that both our bags were made after the factory moved from North Street in 1979, otherwise I don't see their logic in dropping North Street from their labels while they were still there.