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-   -   The Raleigh that wanted to be a GIOS (http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/832072-raleigh-wanted-gios.html)

cudak888 07-13-12 03:40 PM

The Raleigh that wanted to be a GIOS
 
I picked this so-called GIOS up from the LBS today. I knew it wasn't a GIOS, but it looked good enough to strip of its inappropriate decals and flip:

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/raleigh_grancourse_1.jpg

What got me completely by surprise was what is hidden under the repaint - a 1984 Raleigh Gran Course (or Competition 12, the frames are identical), exclusive to the U.K. market:

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/raleigh_grancourse_8.jpg

I knew the combination of Prugnat P4 lugs, sloping fork crown, and fastback stays felt familiar (the Panasonic Team Professionals, specifically), but I just couldn't place it until I checked the catalogs again.

It's a pretty decent frame, if not that well cared for (one of the seat stays had been curved inwards, which pulled both stays out of alignment - some careful cold setting rectified the problem to the point that it's impossible to tell it was ever damaged to begin with), and the amount of brass on the fastback cluster leaves a bit to be desired, so I'm going to have Mike Terraferma fill it a bit before I do anything else.

It puzzles me to no end why anyone would consider turning something as nice as a Raleigh Gran Course/Competition 12 into a GIOS - after all, they're both nice bikes - but I dare say that's the appeal of the Italian marquees coming through.

-Kurt

Michael Angelo 07-13-12 06:21 PM

I can already see it in Pansonic team Colors, with a Modern Campy 10 Speed Group. I have TA cranks.....

cudak888 07-13-12 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Angelo (Post 14478769)
I can already see it in Pansonic team Colors, with a Modern Campy 10 Speed Group. I have TA cranks.....

It's a 60cm CTT, not a 61. Still interested?

You'd have one heck of a stable with the '86 Team Pro U.S., '72 Carlton Pro, and the 1984 Gran Course done up as a 531C Team Replica clone.

Mike is going to add a bit of silver (or brass) to the stays tomorrow.

-Kurt

Michael Angelo 07-13-12 08:17 PM

I would like to see it after Mike gets done with it.

cudak888 07-13-12 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Angelo (Post 14479168)
I would like to see it after Mike gets done with it.

You got it.

Incidentally, do you think I ought to strip and primer it? ACE spray-on paint stripper does a pretty good job. After all, some of the repaint will be torched off when Mike does the fastback cluster.

-Kurt

cudak888 07-14-12 10:13 AM

Off to Mike's at 12:30. I'll probably strip it down to bare steel when I get back.

-Kurt

rootboy 07-14-12 10:35 AM

A Raleigh, decal-ed like a GIOS, painted like a 73 Motobecane Le Champion. Interesting.

owenmyers 07-14-12 10:52 AM

I've always wanted to make one of my frames into a Gios, Simply because i can't afford one. But in my opinion that is one of the highest levels of classic and vintage sin. What do you think?

cudak888 07-14-12 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rootboy (Post 14480544)
A Raleigh, decal-ed like a GIOS, painted like a 73 Motobecane Le Champion. Interesting.

To say nothing of Raleigh's paint layering, which I discovered as I stripped the frame (following some reinforcement of the stays by Mike, and a number of difficult hours of filing and sanding by me):

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/raleigh_competition12_12.jpg

Underneath the lavender paint job is a dark green finish (indicating this is the Competition 12 and not the Gran Course), and under that a teal undercoat that gave the green color its depth. If there was any question until now about the color of Raleigh's primer, it's red. Bright red:

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/raleigh_competition12_13.jpg

One of the more interesting discoveries was on the seattube at the bottom bracket. The tubing was slightly warped to the touch at this area. I feared damage, but found that the warping was because the "REYNOLDS 531 BUTTED" stamping was located in this area:

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/raleigh_competition12_11.jpg

I had Mike add more brass than was necessary for the repair, for I felt the factory brass was woefully lacking - what's more, we found that the left seat stay had already been repaired sometime in the past (which tends to substantiate my argument that Raleighs with these "shot-up" fastback stays will break if they are not subsequently reinforced). I highly doubt this one will come apart anytime soon.

If you've never filed a brass fillet in a tight space as you see here, you've never quite experienced pure hell. I told Mike not to spend too much time improving Raleigh's shoddy brazing, for fear of keeping it from looking like a Raleigh :lol:

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/raleigh_competition12_10.jpg

Sure looks a lot better with primer:

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/raleigh_competition12_14.jpg

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/raleigh_competition12_15.jpg

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/raleigh_competition12_16.jpg

-Kurt

Michael Angelo 07-14-12 04:29 PM

Nice work, Should I post the seat lug repair he did on the Paramount?

cudak888 07-14-12 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Angelo (Post 14481407)
Nice work, Should I post the seat lug repair he did on the Paramount?

It's a beautiful job; can't see why not.

-Kurt

puckett129 07-14-12 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cudak888 (Post 14481316)
To say nothing of Raleigh's paint layering, which I discovered as I stripped the frame (following some reinforcement of the stays by Mike, and a number of difficult hours of filing and sanding by me):

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/raleigh_competition12_12.jpg

Underneath the lavender paint job is a dark green finish (indicating this is the Competition 12 and not the Gran Course), and under that a teal undercoat that gave the green color its depth. If there was any question until now about the color of Raleigh's primer, it's red. Bright red:

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/raleigh_competition12_13.jpg

One of the more interesting discoveries was on the seattube at the bottom bracket. The tubing was slightly warped to the touch at this area. I feared damage, but found that the warping was because the "REYNOLDS 531 BUTTED" stamping was located in this area:

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/raleigh_competition12_11.jpg

I had Mike add more brass than was necessary for the repair, for I felt the factory brass was woefully lacking - what's more, we found that the left seat stay had already been repaired sometime in the past (which tends to substantiate my argument that Raleighs with these "shot-up" fastback stays will break if they are not subsequently reinforced). I highly doubt this one will come apart anytime soon.

If you've never filed a brass fillet in a tight space as you see here, you've never quite experienced pure hell. I told Mike not to spend too much time improving Raleigh's shoddy brazing, for fear of keeping it from looking like a Raleigh :lol:

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/raleigh_competition12_10.jpg

Sure looks a lot better with primer:

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/raleigh_competition12_14.jpg

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/raleigh_competition12_15.jpg

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/raleigh_competition12_16.jpg

-Kurt

How long did it take to get it cleaned off? It looks great so far!

cudak888 07-14-12 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puckett129 (Post 14481591)
How long did it take to get it cleaned off? It looks great so far!

I only cleaned off the top half of the paint. About 30 minutes of intensely dirty and caustic work with ACE spray-on stripper. Most of the primer you see will get removed when I take off the remainder.

Even the chromed stays (which were painted over at factory; only the axle contact surface on the dropouts are left unpainted on these examples) remain caked with residue:

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/raleigh_competition12_17.jpg

The biggest irony of it all is that I found out the headtube is off alignment from the seattube - after coming back from Mike's. I was paying so much attention to the rear of this bike, I completely overlooked the front end. Just what I need - more cold setting.

In retrospect, it looks as if the fork blades could use a bit of tweaking too.

It never ends, does it?

-Kurt

zazenzach 07-14-12 08:08 PM

gorgeous bike! nver understood the point of fastback stays.

Michael Angelo 07-14-12 08:47 PM

Shot back stays.

cudak888 07-14-12 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zazenzach (Post 14482023)
gorgeous bike! nver understood the point of fastback stays.

Smashing good looks.

-Kurt

mbzip0 09-21-12 01:29 AM

My apologies for dropping in like this but I recently acquired a 1984 Truimph Gran Course which is identical to the Raleigh Gran Course of the era.

Could anyone elaborate more about these bike please. Searched the net with minor success.

Kurt you say it never got imported to the states?

Velognome 09-21-12 04:34 AM

Hate to say it....but...the ah....well, looks kinda...b.....well, not too straight in the picture.
http://www.kurtkaminer.com/raleigh_grancourse_1.jpg

cudak888 09-21-12 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbzip0 (Post 14757683)
My apologies for dropping in like this but I recently acquired a 1984 Truimph Gran Course which is identical to the Raleigh Gran Course of the era.

Could anyone elaborate more about these bike please. Searched the net with minor success.

Kurt you say it never got imported to the states?

Neither model was imported into the States; especially the Triumph. Secondary Raleigh brand names were pretty much eradicated in our marked by 1973, and by 1982, Huffy management had taken over the reigns of Raleigh's Boston offices and replaced the Nottingham line with Japanese imports (with exception to the SBDU Team Pro).


Quote:

Originally Posted by Velognome (Post 14757799)
Hate to say it....but...the ah....well, looks kinda...b.....well, not too straight in the picture.

Fork was bent back by 2-3 degrees. Already cold set it back into alignment. Frame has no under-lug wrinkling, only the twist that I intend to rectify on a frame table.

-Kurt

Velognome 09-21-12 06:31 PM

Quote:

Fork was bent back by 2-3 degrees. Already cold set it back into alignment. Frame has no under-lug wrinkling, only the twist that I intend to rectify on a frame table.
Cool, glad it pulled straight. Sounds and looks like it had a hard life prior to your ownership.

cudak888 09-21-12 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velognome (Post 14760842)
Cool, glad it pulled straight. Sounds and looks like it had a hard life prior to your ownership.

It did. Here's to it's new, revitalized future :beer:

-Kurt

callig 09-21-12 10:51 PM

2 Attachment(s)
I have a frame that has been identified as a mid 70's Condor Superbe that was painted as a Gioshttp://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=274236http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=274237

cudak888 09-22-12 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by callig (Post 14761521)
I have a frame that has been identified as a mid 70's Condor Superbe that was painted as a Gios

Interesting - and ironic that someone should have done so to a Condor (which, when all is said and done, is on equal if not higher footing than your average Gios).

-Kurt

cudak888 09-23-12 08:05 PM

FYI - no photos just yet, but the Giosaleigh has been cold set, and is now straight as an arrow. The frame now sits on a perfect vertical plane.

Despite all of this, I did find that the factory brazed the rear brake bridge slightly cockeyed, throwing the rear brake bolt about a millimeter off center, though it's not enough to make a difference when a brake and wheel are installed - I've seen much worse on most factory bikes.

-Kurt

JPZ66 09-23-12 08:29 PM

Really great project / resurrection thread Kurt. Can't wait to see more of this coming along !

Cheers,

Joe


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