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  1. #1
    Is a real super guy. Henry III's Avatar
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    eBay appraisals on a someone's golden turd

    I know we've all dealt with folks who think they've got the most amazing bike in the possession because they saw one just like it on eBay or some other place online sell for such and such a price. Well I found this mid 80's TSD Guerciotti on CL last week for $300 right in town. I figured it was gone after I emailed him and no response. So I've been selling some stuff on eBay lately and figured I'd give the guy a call as I had enough fun money for it. It looked fairly decent besides those old Scott bars and the splash tape.

    So gave him a call and he seemed pretty nice and said he still had it and he could meet up near my house since he had some errands to do on my side of town and would bring it along. So I got my hopes up and he was said to look for a newer F150 so he wouldn't be some tweeker or something out of the ordinary to have something like this. He's like it's been in storage for quite a few years and don't see it getting fixed up anytime soon. So here comes the "oh I've seen these things sell on eBay for a grand but it needs a little work so I'm letting it go cheap."

    Well a little work was a huge understatement to say the least. It had full Sante from the headset down to the hubs and everything in between. The frame looked like it was sitting outside and got into a fight with belt sander. The paint was no wax and ride in my opinion. I'm fine with riding them a little rough but there isn't a tube that doesn't have less then a inch long section of rash with rush. Oh wait the headtube is in really nice shape so I take that back. lol

    But overall the frame didn't have any dents, fork was straight, and everything else looked fine. The seatpost just seemed different and then I noticed the binder bolt was loose and there were teeth marks from a wrench on the head of the seatpost...He was like they got it loose at the bike shop I took it so it comes out. I grabbed it and it was totally locked tight. I figured I could handle it and get it out. So here comes the haggling.

    He's like I'm not firm on the 300 even though the shop in town told me with an overhaul I could get a grand easily and restored I could get a couple grand. I'm thinking oh brother one of these guys and this thing looks like it's been sitting outside for a couple of years or his storage unit has a big hole in the roof direct over this bike. Hahaha.

    So right off the start I tell him this is really rough and the picture was pretty deceiving. So he's like gimme your best lowball offer because it's not going to hurt me. I'm like I can't do anything more then $100 as the components have chipped paint or any chrome on parts has rust on them. So he's like $80 and I'm like I $60 and he's like sure. I walk into 7-11(as we met up there) and get change for a 100 and walk back out and give it another look over and ask him $50 and he bites super fast. It's one of those things were you know you could of got it cheaper but I figured for a decent Guerciotti frame and fork for $50 isn't that bad even for a repaint.

    So I take it home and start stripping it down and it's coming apart painlessly until the seatpost. This thing didn't budge and it's some cheesy no name aluminum post. So I flip it over and pop it a couple of times on the concrete and it's totally solid and taking chunks of my driveway. My heart starts sinking lower and this was with penatrating sprayed on both sides and it's soaking down and not just running off. I spray inside of the seatpost and a few seconds later it comes out of the top of the seat lug so that's reassuring. But it took me and my neighbor about 30 minutes with a pipe wrench and a breaker bar. This thing was screaming with each turn and I even broke the top section of the seatpost loose. But it came out and now I've got a scratched up but straight and structually good Guerciotti frame and fork. The Sante group isn't the best so it'll get tossed onto a flipper.

    Sorry for the novel but this evening has been interesting to say the least. lol.

    First the listing
    http://medford.craigslist.org/bik/3131687710.html


    The bike that's in amazing condition for it's age...yeah okay.





    Last edited by unterhausen; 07-17-12 at 12:12 PM. Reason: deleting image w/phone number

  2. #2
    Is a real super guy. Henry III's Avatar
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  3. #3
    Is a real super guy. Henry III's Avatar
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    I've heard of soldering spokes together but JB welding...that's a first for me. Too bad the rear Ambrosio rims is a bit wobbly because their pretty nice once cleaned up. I don't have a stand so I'll take it in and see what the guy down the street can do at my LBS. He only charges $5 bucks so that's good!

  4. #4
    Senior Member Drillium Dude's Avatar
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    "Wonderful condition for its age" - man, that's an Ebay and CL throw-away line if I've ever heard one

    That's a fantastic score for $50, Henry! You know you can sell the parts and get your money back a number of times over and still have a super frame. You may have some pitting to deal with, though

    Nice.

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  5. #5
    Large Member realestvin7's Avatar
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    I wouldn't be complaining. Heck, I'll take that Sante off your hands, too. I bought a broken Guerciotti frame for $60 and the local frame builder said that was a steal. You got a good deal, dude.
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  6. #6
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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  7. #7
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    you might break even.....
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  8. #8
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    i expected to hear about how the seller insisted on a high price.. instead you lowballed him and ended up scoring a great deal...
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  9. #9
    Cottered Crank Amesja's Avatar
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    Nice snag.

    A dip in the OA tank and that frame will look nearly new.
    '74 Raleigh Carlton Competition w/ Ultegra | '97 Trek 720 Singletrack CX-er w/ 105 | '64 Raleigh LTD-3 modernized w/ all alloy components |'69 Raleigh Twenty | '54 Raleigh Sports

  10. #10
    Senior Member jr59's Avatar
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    I like those scott bars
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  11. #11
    Riding like its 1990 thenomad's Avatar
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    Stop complaining. I've seen and bought worse. Great score for $50 in my market.
    I had a Faggin in my hands from an acquaintance. Bike was living in the guys back yard and it was much worse than yours. No chance of saving the paint or components. Guy insisted it was worth $200 and would rather put it back in the yard for another 20 years than get $50 or more. It was just on the brink of being a lost case so now its in the yard again and I'm sure itll be hopeless in 2 more years.
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  12. #12
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    Interesting negociation!

    Seller : 300$
    You: I could pay $100
    Seller: $80
    You: $60!
    You: 50$!
    Seller: deal!

    Wow, he really wanted to get rid of the thing!

  13. #13
    Is a real super guy. Henry III's Avatar
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    YeahI'm not complaining and even when I offered him $50 he jumped at that which made me wonder if he was going to go for even more. So today I'm picking up some wood bleach crystals and give the group a OA bath. The frame I'm not sure it's going to help out. I may call around on see what it may run to get it powder coated.

  14. #14
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    btw you left his phone number in the picture, you should probably remove it

  15. #15
    Cottered Crank Amesja's Avatar
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    I'm confused at your bargaining strategy. First you say you can't go over $100 which i would have taken as an "offer" if I was a seller. Then you kept lowering your offers?

    As a seller I would have walked away the first time an offer was given and then taken back for a lower one. That leads to bad outcomes IMHO -like a $300 OBO listing turning into a $50 sale.

    Then again, I'd have cleaned that baby off with a complete strip and OA bath for all parts, a frame polish & wax, and a ground-up rebuild/rehab. New cables/housings/pads/bar-tape/bearings/grease etc.

    I probably would have gotten a lot more than the $300 for it after that
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  16. #16
    Fat Guy on a Little Bike KonAaron Snake's Avatar
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    I'm a little confused about the post...and I don't mean this rudely, but are you asking what we think it's worth, bragging about what you paid, or just telling the story of its acquisition?

    I think $300 would have been a bit high given condition and parts...all fixed up and shiney, with those parts, it's what? A $600 bike or so? I think $150 would have been about right...you did well.

  17. #17
    Is a real super guy. Henry III's Avatar
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    I'm not asking what it's worth but just how strange the deal went. He told me to give him my best lowball offer and basically told him it would have to be under a hundred. The fact of the matter is that if it was too much of a lowball offer he would be been offended and told me to shove it. But it's like he was willing to take whatever I had in my wallet quite honestly. I had $236 but in big bills as I was originally going to offer him tops $250 judging from the picture. So I said I'd have to get change as I just had $36 and he actually pondered on that for a minute.

    I mean how can you go from telling me it's worth a $1000 but end up letting it go for just $50? Then he was sure that the seatpost wasn't stuck and that he took it to a local shop and they pulled it out with no issues. They must of used JB weld instead of grease when putting it back in. lol. Either he picked it up cheaper then that and wanted to make a quick buck or he knew of the seized seatpost and figured it was hosed.

    Any options for the group on what to do? The paint on the cranks is flaking heavily around the edges of the mounting hole? The paint isn't something easily found or to be touched up decently I'd think. Just leave it? The rest of the parts should clean up decently but still be rough around the edges. I have a Schwinn Circuit I may toss them onto just to make it a rider right now.
    Last edited by Henry III; 07-17-12 at 10:39 AM.

  18. #18
    Cottered Crank Amesja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry III View Post
    Any options for the group on what to do? The paint on the cranks is flaking heavily around the edges of the mounting hole? The paint isn't something easily found or to be touched up decently I'd think. Just leave it? The rest of the parts should clean up decently but still be rough around the edges. I have a Schwinn Circuit I may toss them onto just to make it a rider right now.
    I expounded about on what I would do with this bike. Clean it up, de-rust with OA and polish the frame. You'd be amazed at how well this works. Much of that rust is merely surface rust over pinhole imperfections in the paint or small chips. Scratches tend to disappear or fade into the background with a good polish with Scratch-X or other similar products.

    Then clean off all the other parts in a similar fashion and rebuild -replacing any consumables that need to be replaced.

    But BEFORE I did any of that I'd check a whole bunch of stolen bike registries for this bike's serial number. Because the way this seller behaved just SCREAMS someone trying to unload hot property. In fact, after reading this account I am reasonably sure this bike has been stolen -either by a prior owner that this guy got it from legitimately, or by himself just recently or a long time ago. Maybe both. But I bet it was stolen at some point and this guy knows it. That's why he was willing to unload it for any cash he could get.

    The PO's may never have registered it and may not have thought to have recorded the serial number before it was stolen so there may not ever be an repercussions and there would be no way to know it was stolen. But I have a feeling that very few legitimate bike sellers would act as squirrely as this one did unless they knew the item they were selling was hot (or used to be hot and had cooled off.) The condition isn't great on this bike -but it's far from being unsavagable. For $50 you basically stole it yourself IMHO.
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  19. #19
    Fat Guy on a Little Bike KonAaron Snake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry III View Post
    I'm not asking what it's worth but just how strange the deal went. He told me to give him my best lowball offer and basically told him it would have to be under a hundred. The fact of the matter is that if it was too much of a lowball offer he would be been offended and told me to shove it. But it's like he was willing to take whatever I had in my wallet quite honestly. I had $236 but in big bills as I was originally going to offer him tops $250 judging from the picture. So I said I'd have to get change as I just had $36 and he actually pondered on that for a minute.

    I mean how can you go from telling me it's worth a $1000 but end up letting it go for just $50? Then he was sure that the seatpost wasn't stuck and that he took it to a local shop and they pulled it out with no issues. They must of used JB weld instead of grease when putting it back in. lol. Either he picked it up cheaper then that and wanted to make a quick buck or he knew of the seized seatpost and figured it was hosed.

    Any options for the group on what to do? The paint on the cranks is flaking heavily around the edges of the mounting hole? The paint isn't something easily found or to be touched up decently I'd think. Just leave it? The rest of the parts should clean up decently but still be rough around the edges. I have a Schwinn Circuit I may toss them onto just to make it a rider right now.
    Got it - I was confused. I think you were totally within bounds and wasn't criticizing. The thousands thing is some guy at an LBS who thinks all vintage italians are rare collector gems. He probably just wanted it gone and was tired of dealing with the hassle.

    I'd leave it.

  20. #20
    Is a real super guy. Henry III's Avatar
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    He named off some local shop and said they were willing to fix it up and sell it for him on eBay. I may swing by and ask them about it and get their story. He has two other bikes listed up and had a Cannondale Black Lightning the other day. Either he's a thief who does a little backround check on what he has or...I dunno what to think. He didn't seem like a thief though as he was with his wife and child in a fairly new and nice Ford F150. He didn't look shady either like looking all around, foaming from the mouth or scratching himself all over like some addict. I'll stop by the police station and ask but if it was stolen why would he have his phone number listed up and be willing to meet at his house besides being an idiot thief. He even called me back after the first call I made to him as he had some errands to do and met up later on.

  21. #21
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    It has led a hard life.
    I am not a fan of these fade color schemes, but with the white crank arms it graphically works.
    A better deal than I would have imagined.
    I would have just passed it up, assuming the price was close to what the seller would be willing to accept.

    I do think the Scott drop in bars were a good idea, if Scott did not have a decent patent on them they would still be in use today in the peloton.

  22. #22
    Ride Fast and Ride Safe! gioscinelli's Avatar
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    Needs a little touch up!
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  23. #23
    Randomhead
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    I deleted the image of the CL listing with the sellers phone number in it. If you want to repost, blur out the phone first

  24. #24
    Chainstay Brake Mafia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry III View Post
    He didn't seem like a thief though as he was with his wife and child in a fairly new and nice Ford F150. He didn't look shady either like looking all around, foaming from the mouth or scratching himself all over like some addict.
    The worst thieves wear suits and ties
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  25. #25
    Cottered Crank Amesja's Avatar
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    Maybe he was the original owner or had it for a long time and suddenly just needed some cash FAST. If he were a flipper I find it hard to believe he paid $50 or less for it and is making much money on it -unless someone gave it to him or he works as a clean-out guy for home foreclosures (I actually met a guy like this who lives North of Chicago who picks up a TON of free old bikes this way and then flips them on CL)

    The fact that he's willing to sell so cheap is a warning sign.

    The fact that he flat-out lied to you about having the seatpost out by the LBS is a warning sign (if it were out he wouldn't have jammed it back in -seems like he tried to get it out, or someone tried to get it out, and failed.)

    The fact that he was willing to drop down from $300 to $50 is warning sign.

    Everything here smells fishy to me. Then again, I'm extra-allergic to stolen property.
    '74 Raleigh Carlton Competition w/ Ultegra | '97 Trek 720 Singletrack CX-er w/ 105 | '64 Raleigh LTD-3 modernized w/ all alloy components |'69 Raleigh Twenty | '54 Raleigh Sports

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