Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 43
  1. #1
    Senior Member fender1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Berwyn PA
    My Bikes
    I hate bikes!
    Posts
    4,298
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Anybody Use a Shimano Indexed Shifter w/ a Suntour Cyclone Rear Derailleur?

    If so, how did it work and how did you set it up?

  2. #2
    Large Member realestvin7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Tejas
    Posts
    2,736
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Now, why would you go and do a thing like that?
    Build a drop bar do-it-all MTB!
    For Sale / Trade:
    1985 Cannondale Road F/F - 56cm ST/56cm TT
    1988 Cannondale SM1000 MTB F/F 20" ST/ 56cm TT
    Kuwahara Puma MTB F/F - 19" ST/56cm TT
    Trek 7000 MTB F/F -17" ST/55cm TT
    Alpine MTB F/F - 23" ST/59cm TT
    Ross Hi-Tech MTB F/F - 20" - 21" ST/57cm TT
    Peugeot PR10 Road F/F - 62.5cm ST/60cm TT

  3. #3
    Senior Member fender1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Berwyn PA
    My Bikes
    I hate bikes!
    Posts
    4,298
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I am just that kind of guy...

  4. #4
    Senior Member pcb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Bergen County, NJ
    Posts
    291
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by fender1 View Post
    If so, how did it work and how did you set it up?
    That way lies madness!!!!

    They have different indexing philosophies, different derailleur geometries, different cable pull requirements and different cog spacing, so mixing levers/ders isn't supposed to work, and usually doesn't. I'm sure someone will chime in with a workaround that shifted OK for them, this ground has been covered before. Shimano's system is fairly tolerant, so putting a Cyclone rder into an all-Shimano system might give you a better chance of success than putting Shimano shifters into an all-Suntour system.

    I spent a lot of hours trying to help mfrs and dealers get all-Suntour systems to shift reliably, with only moderate success, so I don't even want to think about trying to mix systems. But my nightmares aren't yours, so if sounds like fun to you, give 'er a whirl!

  5. #5
    Rustbelt Rider mkeller234's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Canton, OH
    My Bikes
    1990 Trek 1420 - 1978 Raleigh Professional - 1973 Schwinn Collegiate - 1974 Schwinn Suburban
    Posts
    8,244
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    What generation of Cyclone are you talking about? How many cogs?
    |^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| ||
    |......GO.BROWNS........| ||'|";, ___.
    |_..._..._______===|=||_|__|..., ] -
    "(@)'(@)"""''"**|(@)(@)*****''(@)

  6. #6
    Insane Bicycle Mechanic Jeff Wills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    other Vancouver
    Posts
    6,418
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by fender1 View Post
    If so,
    Nooo!! You're mad, mad I tell you...
    Jeff Wills

    All my bikes.

  7. #7
    Senior Member afilado's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Chattanooga
    My Bikes
    '93 Bridgestone RB-1, '91 Specialized Allez Epic, '85 Raleigh Team Pro, '78 Andre Bertin, early '90s F. Moser Leader AX , '85 Centurion Equipe, '98 Litespeed Tuscany, '89 Klein Quantum, '80 Nishiki Superbe, '83 Peckham, '84 Fuji Opus III
    Posts
    1,172
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Not exactly to the point but as a matter of interest....

    I just recently bought a mid-ninties Specialized Allez Pro set up with Sram index (bar-ends) shifting a Suntour Superbe Pro RD w/Campy 8 speed cassette. Sram/Shimano is same/same, isn't it? Son of a gun worked fine when I test rode it. It's torn down now.

    J

  8. #8
    Senior Member pcb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Bergen County, NJ
    Posts
    291
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by afilado View Post
    I just recently bought a mid-ninties Specialized Allez Pro set up with Sram index (bar-ends) shifting a Suntour Superbe Pro RD w/Campy 8 speed cassette. Sram/Shimano is same/same, isn't it? Son of a gun worked fine when I test rode it. J
    Hokey Smokes! That's mixing three different brands/specs maybe!!! And it worked? Do you know any exorcists? Something unholy happening there...

    Back in the day, when all they made was shifters, SRAM built both Suntour- and Shimano-compatible shifters. Shimano tried to "convince" customers to not buy SRAM by pricing components higher if bought without shifters, or not promising timely shipping. SRAM sued Shimano in the US and won, so when SRAM asked Suntour for samples to design Suntour-compatible levers, Suntour said sure-howdy. That may have been when SRAM's only product was the Grip-Shift, don't remember them having barcons at the time. Not sure whether they were making Campy-compatible in those days as well. I'd guess that once everybody stopped specing Suntour, SRAM cut way back on Suntour-compatible production.

    So I don't know if SRAM ever offered Campy-compatible barcons, but either way, very cool/lucky for you that the mixture works on your Allez Pro.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    7,819
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If the indexing is 7 speed and the rd is for 7 speed i could work. But who knows because I really cant remember if the cyclone pulled the same cable than shimano. Actually I remember seen a cyclone that was produced before indexing (friction), thats why somebody was asking what version of cyclone was.

    If you have the parts to test that is pretty easy and fast. If you are looking to buy a cyclone RD is a risk because suntour had cyclone before introducing indexing and who knows, no idea if the suntour 7 speed freewheels had the same spacing than the shimano ones. I always used friction back in the day so i was able to put any of the wheels i had moving around. If you go friction mode the answer is a big YES, if you go index the answer is who knows.

  10. #10
    Death fork? Naaaah!! top506's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    The other Maine, north of RT 2
    My Bikes
    '71 Gitane Super Corsa, '73 Atala Giro d'Italia, '73 Schwinn Super Sport, '76 Viscount Aerospace Pro, '81 Miyata 710, '81 Lotus Classique, '84 Ross Signature 290s, '84 Shogun 500, '85 Miele Gara, '87 Miyata 512, '89 Centurion Ironman, many more
    Posts
    2,996
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I can't answer for the Cyclone, but I've had very good luck using Shimano indexed shifters with V-Luxe RDs, both short and long cage versions.

    Top
    You know it's going to be a good day when the stem and seatpost come right out.

  11. #11
    Senior Member fender1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Berwyn PA
    My Bikes
    I hate bikes!
    Posts
    4,298
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Was looking to use a first Gen. Cyclone w/ 7 speed sti bar end and a 7 seven speed IRD (modern ramped and Shimano spaced) freewheel

  12. #12
    Senior Member nikkorod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Abington, PA
    My Bikes
    Fanklin Custom, Schwinn Passage, Motobecane Grand Jubilee, Trek 950, Jamis Nova
    Posts
    633
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't think it matters. Isn't the spacing and cable pull determined by the freewheel and shifters? The cyclone is friction and it should move as much as the shifter needs it to.
    Obeying safety rules is acceptable fun.

  13. #13
    Senior Member fender1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Berwyn PA
    My Bikes
    I hate bikes!
    Posts
    4,298
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by nikkorod View Post
    I don't think it matters. Isn't the spacing and cable pull determined by the freewheel and shifters? The cyclone is friction and it should move as much as the shifter needs it to.
    I thought that as well.

  14. #14
    Senior Member ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Louisville
    Posts
    8,159
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by nikkorod View Post
    I don't think it matters. Isn't the spacing and cable pull determined by the freewheel and shifters? The cyclone is friction and it should move as much as the shifter needs it to.
    Not all derailleurs move the same amount for the same amount of cable pulled. Any derailleur will move as much as the shifter tells it to (cable pull), but that doesn't mean it's moving the right distance (to line up over the next cog).
    Bikes on Flickr
    I prefer email to private messages. You can contact me at justinhughes@me.com

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    7,110
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
    Not all derailleurs move the same amount for the same amount of cable pulled. Any derailleur will move as much as the shifter tells it to (cable pull), but that doesn't mean it's moving the right distance (to line up over the next cog).
    Bingo

    Now I want more details on that SRAM/suntour/Campagnolo abomination on the allez. That sounds fun. By ar ends to you mean bar end mounted grip shifters?

  16. #16
    Senior Member jeirvine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    1,091
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Then there is the Suntour issue of unevenly spaced cogs on their "Micro-Drive" 7 and 8 speed systems, with the lower gears spaced closer together than the higher. I had assumed that the shifters would control the different spacing with different index indents, but it could be that the RD's had uneven (non-linear) responses to evenly spaced indexes. Anyone have a clue how that worked?

    If the RD responds linearly, then you might be able to mix and match, using Hubbub cable clamping, Shift-mate adapters, or just plum luck.
    I have the right number of bikes, I just don't have all the right ones quite yet.

  17. #17
    Warning:Annoying to jerks RaleighSport's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    STS
    Posts
    5,431
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I've used a cyclone RD with up to 7 speed indexed shimano freewheel/shifter setup without issue, standard install and all, the only trick was setting the limit at the beginning but even that was just basic usual drivetrain setup. Are you looking for some sorta specifics here?
    “Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.”


    ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Emerson in His Journals

  18. #18
    Senior Member fender1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Berwyn PA
    My Bikes
    I hate bikes!
    Posts
    4,298
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by RaleighSport View Post
    I've used a cyclone RD with up to 7 speed indexed shimano freewheel/shifter setup without issue, standard install and all, the only trick was setting the limit at the beginning but even that was just basic usual drivetrain setup. Are you looking for some sorta specifics here?
    No and thanks for letting me know it worked. Not tough to figure out, just did not want to waste a whole lot of time on something with no chance of working.

  19. #19
    Warning:Annoying to jerks RaleighSport's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    STS
    Posts
    5,431
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by fender1 View Post
    No and thanks for letting me know it worked. Not tough to figure out, just did not want to waste a whole lot of time on something with no chance of working.
    FWIW I don't think it matters if it works for someone else or not, when I originally researched to do what your doing I found a lot of horror stories as well as success stories, so results will vary.
    “Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.”


    ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Emerson in His Journals

  20. #20
    Senior Member ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Louisville
    Posts
    8,159
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm gonna pray really hard for it to work for you, fender1.
    Bikes on Flickr
    I prefer email to private messages. You can contact me at justinhughes@me.com

  21. #21
    incazzare. lostarchitect's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    My Bikes
    See sig
    Posts
    3,866
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
    I'm gonna pray really hard for it to work for you, fender1.
    Jebus will fix your bike.
    1964 JRJ (Bob Jackson) San Remo Plus (http://goo.gl/TQinp)
    2000ish Colian (Colin Laing) (http://goo.gl/OgrcU)
    2013 Velo Orange Pass Hunter

  22. #22
    Senior Member fender1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Berwyn PA
    My Bikes
    I hate bikes!
    Posts
    4,298
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Oh sure, pray for my bike but what about me??????

  23. #23
    Senior Member acoffin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    St Louis
    My Bikes
    93 RB1, 81 Schwinn Super Sport, 72 Moto GR, 74 Sports, 74 Nishiki International
    Posts
    377
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have set up Cyclone M2 (can't remember if it was my short or long cage model) to index with Shimano 8 speed. But it was just set up on the stand last winter when I was bored. I never actually rode it.

  24. #24
    Senior Member afilado's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Chattanooga
    My Bikes
    '93 Bridgestone RB-1, '91 Specialized Allez Epic, '85 Raleigh Team Pro, '78 Andre Bertin, early '90s F. Moser Leader AX , '85 Centurion Equipe, '98 Litespeed Tuscany, '89 Klein Quantum, '80 Nishiki Superbe, '83 Peckham, '84 Fuji Opus III
    Posts
    1,172
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hope we're not hijacking the thread with this side issue. Anyhoo......

    To add another bit of info to the mystery, the bike's longtime owner was an employee of Litespeed. And it was a serious daily rider, maybe his commuter. Very nice bike, well-maintained, etc.

    The set-up: Sram manufactured bar-end stubby (2" in length, 2" in diameter) grip shifters > Suntour Superbe Pro (third generation) > Campagnolo Record 8 speed cassette.

    J


    Quote Originally Posted by thirdgenbird View Post
    Bingo

    Now I want more details on that SRAM/suntour/Campagnolo abomination on the allez. That sounds fun. By ar ends to you mean bar end mounted grip shifters?

  25. #25
    Bianchi Goddess Bianchigirll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Camp Hill, PA
    My Bikes
    Too many to list here check my signature.
    Posts
    18,997
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    This is interesting as I will be trying a similar thing over the winter. I think if the Cyclone is designed for indexing it might work but the 1st gen (non index) may not.

    I am going to try and use 600DT shifters and Sprint RD but transplane shimano pulleys and a 7spd cassette. I did have a 600 I8 RD running on Suntour index barcons for a few years and it worked OK so who knows.
    Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto (2), '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '88 Trofeo, '86 Volpe, '89 Axis, '79 Mixte, '99 Mega Pro XL Ti, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

    Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '86 Bertoni (sold), '09 Motobecane SS, '98 Hetchins M.O., '09 K2 Mainframe, '89 Trek 2000, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •