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  1. #1
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    Pelizzoli Frameset Workaround...

    I've got a Pelizzoli Corsa GP lugged-steel, road frame that I ordered last year, and love it. It's well made and a thing of beauty.

    It also has one problem. Apparently a few of these frames were produced with the front derailleur mounting fixture brazed on a bit too low. I assume the fabrication jig was positioned incorrectly, or something like that.

    It's not the end of the world, of course, but it is a small hassle. Anyway, the tab is 140 mm from the center of the bottom bracket to the center of the tab's slot. On another road frame in my collection, the tab is positioned at 150 mm from the B/B.

    My question is, rather than go with a compact crankset, I'd like to simply use a reduced tooth count chainwheel - as opposed to the the 'standard' 52 ring.

    I'm building up this frame using vintage Campagnolo Super Record equipment, so I'm thinking a 50-tooth chainring may do the trick, and allow the derailleur to clear the slightly smaller ring for proper function.

    Before I go and order this chainring, do you guys think this solution will do the trick?

    Any suggestions would be appreciated...

    Thanks,
    Jim

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    First of all, congrats on your purchase.

    Love to see some pics, as I have been tempted on occasion to place an order myself.

    Now that the Corsa GP is built with Spirit, even more so.

    What did your builder recommend first of all?

  3. #3
    Senior Member rootboy's Avatar
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    Good question. Not sure but, I kind of doubt you'll get enough "linear" reduction in diameter by going to a 50 tooth ring. There's not that much difference in diameter between a 52 and a 50, I don't think. But, not sure. I don't think I have a 50 T ring but if it'll help I can measure what I have and maybe we can extrapolate.

    Edit: just to see, Cissell, I just went down and measured a 52 against a 48. Both Nuovo Record rings.
    Difference in diameter, peak of teeth, was about 8.5 mm. FWIW.
    Last edited by rootboy; 08-15-12 at 08:34 AM.

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    1) They should replace the frame.
    2) You can increase the height of the slot, but maybe only 2-4mm.
    3) You can run the 50T big ring (perhaps in conjunction with #2).
    4) You could TIG an extension plate on (wet towel and icepack the ST).
    5) You could carefully remove the outer section of the braze-on, touch up paint, and run a clamp on adaptor at whatever height you like.

    Good luck...
    85 Andy Gilmour |85 De Rosa |85 Spectrum |91 Panasonic |92 Chesini |94 Vittorio |95 Batavus |95 Iron Horse |95 Reus |02 Calfee |02 Serotta |04 Serotta |06 Look |11 Meech |14 Red Star

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    I would ask Pelizzoli what they suggest. I would suspect there's still enough adjustment there to use a 52 ring, but it's not clear from your post if you have actually tried it? If it is too tight I would think a 50T would work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Otis View Post
    I would ask Pelizzoli what they suggest. I would suspect there's still enough adjustment there to use a 52 ring, but it's not clear from your post if you have actually tried it? If it is too tight I would think a 50T would work.
    Good advice and test, don't guess. Measure the mount in relation to the BB center of this and another "typical" frame or two.
    Measure the radial measure of a 52 and a 50. If you don't have a 50 I am sure a few here have one and can provide a dimension comparison.
    Decide.
    Personally I would go with a compact crank even an IRD for the "Look".
    48 if you must.

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    According to the Campy front derailleur manual, 140 mm is the optimal measurement for a 48 tooth ring. The good news is that 140 is compatible with anything from 45 to 51 so, go for it, it'll work.

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    Cissell,

    These are all good ideas, but what do you need for gearing?

    What is your preference?

    Will these solutions work for your local riding conditions?

    If not, I'd have them rebuild the frame for you.

    You bought a custom frame and shouldn't have to make do.

  9. #9
    Fat Guy on a Little Bike KonAaron Snake's Avatar
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    Assuming this is true, I'd expect him to repair the frame and pay for shipping. This is not something consistent with a high quality build.

    Before doing that, I'd test it and make sure it's truly off. I can't imagine someone with years of experience making an error like that. If it is true, I'd certainly consider it a major black eye for the builder and a pretty strong reason not to touch things he's built. That's a mistake worthy of Raleigh after a pub crawl. I'm sorry but well made and the error you describe are not two statements that can co-exist.

    I would wager the error is on the part of the person building it up and not the frame maker. For what it's worth, I was told by Bilenky that my Marnati frame needed a special clamp because the MAX tube set was ovalized. He was wrong...Marnati had taken that into account and Bilenky made the comment before putting a clamp to it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by gomango View Post
    First of all, congrats on your purchase.

    Love to see some pics, as I have been tempted on occasion to place an order myself.

    Now that the Corsa GP is built with Spirit, even more so.


    What did your builder recommend first of all?


    Thanks gomango!

    I'll try to get some pictures here shortly...

    I'm the builder, so that is why I'm digging for some answers. It seems a slightly smaller chainring would indeed clear that 10 mm lower tab, situation.

    Do you think two teeth (50t vs 55t) would do the trick, or is that not enough of a change in circumference?

    Btw, I've been trying to get to the Pelizzoli site, but it's been down for a few days. I've heard through the grapevine that Pelizzoli may be trying to build up frames for a bigger company. Maybe there's some truth to that, as I've heard it's harder for folks to communicate with them (when I was getting mine made, they were extremely great with staying in contact, and quite friendly to boot!) and I seem to recall them showing off a new frameset they were designing for a 'big' client... anyway, pleased give me your thoughts.

    Jim

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    Senior Member himespau's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'd say have them rebuild it for you or ask them to suggest how to work around the problem.
    Punctuation is important. It's the difference between "I helped my uncle, Jack, off a horse" and "I helped my uncle Jack off a horse"


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cissell View Post
    Thanks gomango!

    I'll try to get some pictures here shortly...

    I'm the builder, so that is why I'm digging for some answers. It seems a slightly smaller chainring would indeed clear that 10 mm lower tab, situation.

    Do you think two teeth (50t vs 55t) would do the trick, or is that not enough of a change in circumference?

    Btw, I've been trying to get to the Pelizzoli site, but it's been down for a few days. I've heard through the grapevine that Pelizzoli may be trying to build up frames for a bigger company. Maybe there's some truth to that, as I've heard it's harder for folks to communicate with them (when I was getting mine made, they were extremely great with staying in contact, and quite friendly to boot!) and I seem to recall them showing off a new frameset they were designing for a 'big' client... anyway, pleased give me your thoughts.

    Jim

    Hi Jim,

    Three thoughts here.

    1) Don't give up on the frameset. They are pretty and I've heard from a customer at the shop they ride great.

    2) Talk to Pelizzoli about a charge back for the rings. They should be in "make it right" mode.

    3) Try Buldogge's idea about extending increasing the length of the slot on the tab. Not trying to offend, but if you aren't familiar with frame/metal work, have this billed back to Pelizzoli as well. I wouldn't fiddle with this, but do you have a builder nearby that is top notch? I know they are likely busy, but this shouldn't take them more than an hour of their time.

    As for Pelizzoli's site, I was just on it. Works fine. Clear your cache/history on your browser and it should work fine.

    Please report back on this problem. I am fairly serious about ordering an Aeta for my wife eventually and I'd like to know they took good care of a previous customer.

    Oh yeah, send them a link to this thread. That might get them hopping!

  13. #13
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    As it is August, I would not be surprised that being basically vacation month, this does not really get addressed until September.

  14. #14
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    Thanks all you guys for the helpful suggestions, and the measurements.

    Indeed, I was disappointed when I realized the tab was affixed a bit too low, but like I said, it's not a deal-breaker for me.

    I got it back when Pelizzoli was introducing the new line, and got a really sweet deal. I ordered an unchromed, unfinished (no paint - just a bead-blast finish) frame for $460.00, including fork! The shipment was $55.00, so overall, a terrific price from someone of his history.

    The deal was he was building the initial line of Corsa GPs using new old stock, SL tubing, so I'd imagine he was passing the savings along to his new customers to help introduce the website, and probably get a buzz going. Giovanni himself was doing the brazing on these lugged frames, while the aluminum ones were welded by his son.

    After receiving the nifty frame, I then stashed the frameset for buildup later, after I sourced some (NOS) Campy parts to eventually hang on it.

    I now understand that the pricing has gone up considerably on the Corsa line (different tubesets, as well), but still well below some of the US builders of similar caliber.

    I also understand a handful of these earlier Corsa GP frames did exhibit a slightly misplaced derailleur tab, so apparently whoever did the frame set-ups, or crafted the frame f/d placement tool, did a goof! When I was setting up the purchase of the frameset, the actual contact was Alessandro and he was VERY nice and professional with our transaction - all the way thru delivery. Indeed, I was VERY impressed with the whole matter. I've wanted an Italian frameset such as this for quite a while now, so getting this with minimal hassle, and at a good price to boot, was very special to me.

    Meanwhile, I found out a few other folks had noted their f/d tab was mounted low, and that's when I looked into the matter myself.

    As I mentioned, the tab is at 140 mm up from the b/b (center) while a couple of other bikes I checked in my stash have the tab at 150 mm.

    I know I could raise a stink, but choose not to. People make mistakes and in my case, compromising with a slightly smaller chainring is certainly no biggie to me. Frankly, it doesn't change my opinion of this storied builder one bit.

    Again, thanks for the info, guys. I think I'll go with the 50 tooth (thanks to busdriver1959!).

    Jim

  15. #15
    Fat Guy on a Little Bike KonAaron Snake's Avatar
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    I don't mean to stir the pot, but he should be embarrassed to have sent that out for shipment, even as a budget bike. That lack of care really tarnishes a brand and, great deal or not, I would not be satisfied personally. This is a rare instance where I disagree with gomango - I wouldn't go near a frame builder who put his name on anything like that.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cissell View Post
    Thanks all you guys for the helpful suggestions, and the measurements.

    Indeed, I was disappointed when I realized the tab was affixed a bit too low, but like I said, it's not a deal-breaker for me.

    I got it back when Pelizzoli was introducing the new line, and got a really sweet deal. I ordered an unchromed, unfinished (no paint - just a bead-blast finish) frame for $460.00, including fork! The shipment was $55.00, so overall, a terrific price from someone of his history.

    The deal was he was building the initial line of Corsa GPs using new old stock, SL tubing, so I'd imagine he was passing the savings along to his new customers to help introduce the website, and probably get a buzz going. Giovanni himself was doing the brazing on these lugged frames, while the aluminum ones were welded by his son.

    After receiving the nifty frame, I then stashed the frameset for buildup later, after I sourced some (NOS) Campy parts to eventually hang on it.

    I now understand that the pricing has gone up considerably on the Corsa line (different tubesets, as well), but still well below some of the US builders of similar caliber.

    I also understand a handful of these earlier Corsa GP frames did exhibit a slightly misplaced derailleur tab, so apparently whoever did the frame set-ups, or crafted the frame f/d placement tool, did a goof! When I was setting up the purchase of the frameset, the actual contact was Alessandro and he was VERY nice and professional with our transaction - all the way thru delivery. Indeed, I was VERY impressed with the whole matter. I've wanted an Italian frameset such as this for quite a while now, so getting this with minimal hassle, and at a good price to boot, was very special to me.

    Meanwhile, I found out a few other folks had noted their f/d tab was mounted low, and that's when I looked into the matter myself.

    As I mentioned, the tab is at 140 mm up from the b/b (center) while a couple of other bikes I checked in my stash have the tab at 150 mm.

    I know I could raise a stink, but choose not to. People make mistakes and in my case, compromising with a slightly smaller chainring is certainly no biggie to me. Frankly, it doesn't change my opinion of this storied builder one bit.

    Again, thanks for the info, guys. I think I'll go with the 50 tooth (thanks to busdriver1959!).

    Jim
    So I'm assuming you had the paint done before you discovered the problem with the hanger? If not it's an easy fix......

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    Quote Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
    I don't mean to stir the pot, but he should be embarrassed to have sent that out for shipment, even as a budget bike. That lack of care really tarnishes a brand and, great deal or not, I would not be satisfied personally. This is a rare instance where I disagree with gomango - I wouldn't go near a frame builder who put his name on anything like that.
    The pot has been stirred. But I have seen bigger mistakes from bigger "names", and it really isn't the end of the world. But in this case without knowing all the facts (both sides) of the original sale (which sounds sort of like a "blem" situation) I would not dig in too hard.

    If it was shipped un-painted his name was not even on it

  18. #18
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    As this problem was experienced by others... how was it resolved for them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
    I don't mean to stir the pot, but he should be embarrassed to have sent that out for shipment, even as a budget bike. That lack of care really tarnishes a brand and, great deal or not, I would not be satisfied personally. This is a rare instance where I disagree with gomango - I wouldn't go near a frame builder who put his name on anything like that.
    I'd fix it and ride it.

    This one isn't that big of a deal to me.

    If I started recalling all of the odd ball frame experiences/discoveries of the last forty years, there would be many "name" brands that I've seen issues with over the years.

    Pelizzoli's still fine by me.

    End of story.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by repechage View Post
    As this problem was experienced by others... how was it resolved for them?
    That was my original point.

    Very few things can't be negotiated.

    If this was unfixable, I would have a different discussion with the builder.

    As the op is fine with the crank ring solution, I'd chalk it up to one extra step of frame prep for a new build.

  21. #21
    Fat Guy on a Little Bike KonAaron Snake's Avatar
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    @Otis and Gomango:

    I will bow to the wisdom of my betters

    I haven't come across much that was that egregious (assuming it's accurate), but I also have come across far less than my esteemed colleagues. The blem sale comment also has merit.

    Considering the price, you could have a local guy redo the tab and still be quite low...so I think I'll insert foot.
    Last edited by KonAaron Snake; 08-15-12 at 07:54 PM.

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