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  1. #1
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    '79 Peugeot PY10 CP: Pictures and ride report w/new tires



    It's been a while since I've been on the '79 PY10 CP. It never seemed to ride right with the Gommitalia Roller tires it had when I got it - though I am told this is as tires were made specifically for use on rollers (though I've yet to find any hard confirmation of such - a Google search on them only chucks back my own articles).

    Nevertheless, when a pair of well-kept, older Hutchinson Tempo 1 tubulars presented themselves, I swapped tires to see what the results would be out on the road.



    Mind you, the last time I critiqued the ride of the PY10 (with the Gommitalia's), I criticized it for being "lackluster and unexciting," if not downright dull. I put it down - tentatively - as a failure on the part of the tires.

    It took about 10 minutes on the road to realize that this isn't the case. The PY10 is unlike any other French bike I've ridden. It's the stiffest, most unwielding, bone-shaking, teeth-chattering steel frame I've ever known - with either set of tires at a conservative 100PSI. Even smooth pavement transfers the tarmac's subtle texture into the frame. However, I did find that the new tires proved to be much more forgiving for maintaining speed.

    There is one large loop of road in the neighborhood which hasn't been paved in ages, and is roughly on par with chipseal - on that road, I came to wonder how the Peugeot team made it through the Paris-Robaix on the PY10. It's the only time I think I've experienced rolling shutter without necessitating a camcorder

    It still feels like a dead frame too - starting from a complete stop in the 42/17 (or any other gear, lowest bailout being the 42/18) is needlessly taxing, and accelerations feel similarly labored. It does accelerate with planted certainty, but the slightest sprint seems to necessitate cranking out-of-the-saddle. Quite the fun stuff when the dried-out, original Galli brake pads don't particularly fulfill their intended purpose anymore!



    It isn't until the rider looks down at the BB that it all starts to make sense though - it doesn't give. No play. Nothing at all - this frame is virtually immune to torque flex, which is immensely surprising to me, for it's built from the slightly smaller, metric version of Reynolds 531SL. (In contrast, the same diameter Super Vitus 980 tubing on the 1983 PSV-10 is on of the whippiest tube sets in existence).



    Ironically enough, all the cheap (in quality, not in replacement price!) aluminum bits transfer all the power much like the frame - no play, no give. Knowing how bad the Simplex (Spidel) seatpost and Philippe ATAX stem is on these things, they'll probably break beforehand. I'm just surprised they don't soak up any of the rough ride either.

    I was pleased to find that the titanium-rail Ideale 2002 saddle wasn't as much of a hatchet as last time, now that I tilted the nose absolutely parallel with the downtube. Nevertheless, the roughness of the ride made it difficult to stay on the saddle's comfort zone.



    In essence, it's a hard ride in all situations, excluding constant speed scenarios on smooth pavement. Anything else is a real workout. I'm not sure if they meant it to be this way or not, but I'll take bets that Cannondale patterned their ride after this beast.

    It'll remain to be seen whether it's ride will grow on me or not.

    Anyway - in the meantime - some needless glamour pictures of the PY:









    -Kurt

  2. #2
    Senior Member 10speedterror's Avatar
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    certainly a pretty pug!

  3. #3
    jyl
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    johnliu@earthlink.net jyl's Avatar
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    She is so hot looking, that she doesn't have to ride nice.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member cbresciani's Avatar
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    Beautiful color combo, the gold works very well with that color blue.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member bibliobob's Avatar
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    Tell it to just sit there and look pretty....

    Some fatter tires?
    I grow old, I grow old. I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled.

  6. #6
    If I own it, I ride it CV-6's Avatar
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    Try some good tires. The Tempo I is a bottom feeder. And the sidewalls of those do not look too healthy to me....like dry.
    Lynn Travers

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    ISO: Lejeune Champion du Monde Ultra Leger Reynolds 753, 53-55cm

  7. #7
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jyl View Post
    She is so hot looking, that she doesn't have to ride nice.
    It's the reason I decided not to sell it after I did my big parts purge. Too nice a looker to get rid of.

    Quote Originally Posted by bibliobob View Post
    Tell it to just sit there and look pretty....

    Some fatter tires?
    It does that every night at the foot of my bed, alongside my '72 Paramount. I figured it could do some hard work for a change.

    I doubt 25C's would help - it's a very strange riding frame. As much as tires affect the ride of a bike, I'm almost convinced that the frame is the issue in this case, not the tires. I've never seen a frame with zero give at the BB until I took a close look while riding this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by CV-6 View Post
    Try some good tires. The Tempo I is a bottom feeder. And the sidewalls of those do not look too healthy to me....like dry.
    I've considered that possibility, though it wouldn't explain why I've been very pleased with the worn-out Continental Giros on my 1978 Raleigh Pro - and everyone knows that's as low-end as tubulars get. They don't have much rolling resistance.

    -Kurt

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    Quote Originally Posted by CV-6 View Post
    Try some good tires. The Tempo I is a bottom feeder. And the sidewalls of those do not look too healthy to me....like dry.
    I too would vote the tires are telling you more than anything else. For the P/R the tire would be most probably a Clement P/R or Del Mondo. both much wider tires. Those Tempos appear pretty narrow. There were some top notch French tires way back, but you might win the lotto before a set surfaces, and need the winnings to pay for them.

  9. #9
    Senior Member VeloBrox's Avatar
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    Weird. I have 1980 PY10S which I would guess is quite similar (pictures of your bike is what inspired me to buy!).

    My bike is at least as effortless to ride as other vintage racing bikes I've tried, though I agree that the cogset could be more forgiving. Granted, I have not ridden a huge amount of italian steeds, mostly japanese, french and scandinavian bikes.

    If I didn't know better I would say somebody has reinforced your BB internally.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member ftwelder's Avatar
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    Wow, that is a looker! You may just try a different set of wheels if you have something with an easy fit. It seems like a little spoke tension can make a enough of a difference.
    1886 Surrey machinists Invincible, 1900 Nashua, 1937 Raleigh Golden Arrow, 1938 Raleigh Silver Record, 1951 Armstrong tourmalet, 1970 Motobecane Grand Record, 1971 Raleigh Professional, 1971 Gitane TDF, 1972 Legnano Gran Primio, 1973, Peugeot PX-10, 1975 Roberts, 1984 Battaglin Giro, 1985 Grandis Speciale, 2012 FTW

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  11. #11
    Senior Member VeloBrox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftwelder View Post
    Wow, that is a looker! You may just try a different set of wheels if you have something with an easy fit. It seems like a little spoke tension can make a enough of a difference.
    I don't know. It sounds as if several of us (me included) are trying to "save" the bike from cudak's harsh judgement. Could it be the tires? The wheels? Well, what if the entire bike is at fault? Maybe the design of these weren't up to their iconic standard? Or maybe the bike is a conglomeration of riding characteristics unsuitable for cudak?

    What I don't get is that metric 531SL shouldn't have no flex as cudak describes.
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  12. #12
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by repechage View Post
    I too would vote the tires are telling you more than anything else. For the P/R the tire would be most probably a Clement P/R or Del Mondo. both much wider tires. Those Tempos appear pretty narrow. There were some top notch French tires way back, but you might win the lotto before a set surfaces, and need the winnings to pay for them.
    I'd be content with a pair of decent current tubulars with skinwalls, but I'm still not convinced they'll help.

    That said, I'd be willing to do a test if a forum member wishes to lend a pair of previously stretched and used tires that he or she considers a proper riding tubular. I'll mount them, glue them lightly (no sense in more glue residue than necessary), test ride the PY, then return them.

    Quote Originally Posted by VeloBrox View Post
    Weird. I have 1980 PY10S which I would guess is quite similar (pictures of your bike is what inspired me to buy!).

    My bike is at least as effortless to ride as other vintage racing bikes I've tried, though I agree that the cogset could be more forgiving. Granted, I have not ridden a huge amount of italian steeds, mostly japanese, french and scandinavian bikes.

    If I didn't know better I would say somebody has reinforced your BB internally.
    The PY10S should ride the same - it is 531SL as well - but I'm not sure if it shares the same stays, BB shell, or tubing thickness.

    Do you have a photo of your BB shell? I've been told the PY10CP's had stiffened BB shells for the Paris-Roubaix (and the official team bikes had straight-gauge downtubes.

    Quote Originally Posted by ftwelder View Post
    Wow, that is a looker! You may just try a different set of wheels if you have something with an easy fit. It seems like a little spoke tension can make a enough of a difference.
    I know my '82 Superior is sluggish because of spoke tension, but that bike feels "wet-sponge" sluggish. The PY's spoke tension is OK, but it feels weighty, not spongy. Think of the feeling pulling a loaded kiddie trailer behind you with a light, fast bike.

    Quote Originally Posted by VeloBrox View Post
    I don't know. It sounds as if several of us (me included) are trying to "save" the bike from cudak's harsh judgement. Could it be the tires? The wheels? Well, what if the entire bike is at fault? Maybe the design of these weren't up to their iconic standard? Or maybe the bike is a conglomeration of riding characteristics unsuitable for cudak?

    What I don't get is that metric 531SL shouldn't have no flex as cudak describes.
    That includes myself, for I want to get enjoyment from riding this PY10 more than anyone else - but I'm not quite sure it's my style, as you note.

    An onboard video might be in order in regards to its flexing properties.

    -Kurt

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    650B conversion.

  14. #14
    Senior Member VeloBrox's Avatar
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    I can get you pictures of my BB shell (just the outside) when I'm back from work.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  15. #15
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
    650B conversion.
    If I had a pair of 650B's, I'd throw them underneath just to prove that it won't do much for it

    Quote Originally Posted by VeloBrox View Post
    I can get you pictures of my BB shell (just the outside) when I'm back from work.
    Appreciate it. For comparison, here's mine:



    -Kurt

  16. #16
    Senior Member VeloBrox's Avatar
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    I can tell you right off the bat that my shell has a plastic cable guide and no drain holes.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  17. #17
    Senior Member Michael Angelo's Avatar
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    Well.....if it's that bad......wana trade for a Super Mondia???

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    Different riders bring out different flex characteristics. A high cadence, 150 lbs, 200W rider may find a particular frame stiff and unyielding, put a 185 lbs, 350W masher on it and its a different story. It's not the frame it's you . YMMV.

  19. #19
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VeloBrox View Post
    I can tell you right off the bat that my shell has a plastic cable guide and no drain holes.
    Not the PY10CP's shell, then.

    Quote Originally Posted by headset View Post
    Different riders bring out different flex characteristics. A high cadence, 150 lbs, 200W rider may find a particular frame stiff and unyielding, put a 185 lbs, 350W masher on it and its a different story. It's not the frame it's you . YMMV.
    I'm 210, and I can mash when I want to - didn't seem to make a difference on the PY.

    -Kurt

  20. #20
    Senior Member Michael Angelo's Avatar
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    Could have been the pin wheels and tassels on the handle bars, too much wind reistance. Remove and retest.

  21. #21
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Angelo View Post
    Could have been the pin wheels and tassels on the handle bars, too much wind reistance. Remove and retest.
    Oh, look - here comes a Mondia strapped to a Plymouth Belvedere

    -Kurt

  22. #22
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    Hmmm. I know you've probably ruled out this possibility, but never the less: Could the cranks be shorter than you're used to on your other bikes?

  23. #23
    Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race dddd's Avatar
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    What else to explain the ride characteristice than the frame angles?

    I don't know hat this frame's angle read, but it seems close enough to the Thevet era to conjure the ride of my '74 PX10E and PX10LE, both of which have near-vertical head and seat tubes positioned around 76-degrees, with a nearly straight-leg fork blades.
    The ride of my bikes is indeed, beyond "lively" to the point of some noticeable harshness, but payback comes in the hills, whether seated or standing, with the bikes seeming to defy gravity.

    It's woth noting that by 1979, the PX10's angles had reverted to a british-standard 73 degrees, but no saying if the PY models were kept in a distinctly livelier configuration(?).

    BTW, what a great-looking bike! My size-ish, wouldn't mind finding one of those some day.

  24. #24
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hagen2456 View Post
    Hmmm. I know you've probably ruled out this possibility, but never the less: Could the cranks be shorter than you're used to on your other bikes?
    170's - the same as on everything else I have, other than my '82 Superior (175mm TA's). I prefer 175's, but I don't have poor luck on 170's either.

    Quote Originally Posted by dddd View Post
    What else to explain the ride characteristice than the frame angles?
    The '79 PY10 CP has conventional frame geometry in comparison to the steep-geometry variants of the PX10. I am quite sure the PY is 73/73 - the side shot below is quite telling in that respect - but I'll double-check in the morning to be absolutely certain.



    Frankly though, I would be quite surprised if the geometry were to have a significant effect on all possible acceleration scenarios, though I'd expect differences in handling and rider endurance.

    -Kurt

  25. #25
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    I find the characteristics of your PY10 puzzling. I also have a PY10 (1977) that has some flex in the bottom bracket and one of the most forgiving rides of any of my other French or Italian bikes. I can tell yours is the next generation as it sports the newer (back then anyway) graphics, single pivot brake mounts and what appears to be possibly shorter rear chain stays. I notice not much space between the down tube and rear tire. My bike appears to have a bit more space. I also wonder if at some time in your PY's life someone didn't fill the tubes with foam. That was a idea back in the early eighties trying to stiffen frames. Not sure if the foam ever worked out but could be worth a look.IMGP0045.jpg

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