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-   -   1948 Raleigh...What model is this? (http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/839930-1948-raleigh-what-model.html)

Docbilly 08-16-12 10:09 PM

1948 Raleigh...What model is this?
 
Hello guys. First of all my greetings, im new to the forum.
Last sunday I bought from a friendīs father his 1948 Raleigh. Its in pretty good condition and works perfectly well, but its been repainted and both saddle and handlebars have been changed. I already ordered a nice brooks saddle. I would like to know what model the bike is exactly. At first i thought it could be a Raleigh Sports Roadster missing the chainguard, but then i thought it might be a Raleigh Clubman as for the missing chainguard and the pedals. Anyways, any hints u got will helo as Iīm willing to restore the bike the best I can to itīs original state. Here are come pics. Oh serial number AM5503

https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx...pub=SDX.Photos

Thanx a lot!!!

Billy

JPZ66 08-16-12 10:56 PM

Billy,

Welcome! I'm no Raleigh expert, so I can't help you on ID, but I know that more photos and close ups will be requested by others. Very nice looking bicycle though, hope you get lots of enjoyment with it.

Cheers,

Joe

ftwelder 08-17-12 02:48 AM

Hi, anything made in the 40's would be very rare as there was a war going on. The sturmey archer hub usually has a date code under the logo on the shell. month/year so it will look like this 6 49

Usually, the hub will be dated a year earlier than the bike. The shifters also changed over the years, yours should have a long lever on the shifter.

It looks like a sports model to me but beyond the tube selection, the sports and clubman models are pretty close. Roadsters or anything with a full chain case will have additional brackets around the BB area, at least on the ones I have owned.

This is your best source for Raleigh info. http://www.theheadbadge.com/


As the fella already mentioned, we need some nice photos, well lit showing the components and parts. If it is a better model, it may have a transfer mentioning what tubing was used in construction. If you have any measuring instruments or know a machinist, the seat post diameter will be important if you still suspect a club model.

Beautiful bike! The handlebars look like Raleigh "north road" type. These would fit a sports or club model.




I just took another look and those wheels look like 26X 1-1/4". That would be a strong piece of evidence that it is a club model. The rim should have a size stamped near the stem hole.

Velognome 08-17-12 07:13 AM

Cool old Raleigh. The Hub looks Chrome, that and with the repaint I might be a bit suspect that the rear hub is original, but very well might be. The fender eyelets on the stays are of the older style as well as the brake calipers. The shifter looks to be from the pic. a 50/60's vintage. Chainguards can be added or removed so that's not much of a help. Get a good clear picture of the Chainwheel and cranks, also the lugs and the marking on the hubs. Also what is the tire size 26x1 1/4 or 26x 1 3/8? Welcome to the C&V and what a great old machine, make sure it gets lots-o-miles every year!

clubman 08-17-12 07:46 AM

Looks like the rarer 3 pin crank...I figure it's a Sports with the steel mudguards. Nice condition...a keeper!

jrecoi 08-17-12 10:05 AM

Note the wingnuts on the front hub. This along with the fender attatchment braze-ons adds to the Clubman suspicion. Photos of the cranks are needed, 1948 clubmans came fitted with a 3 pin 46 tooth chainring. One last thing, if the hub is original, what cinches the ID is if it is an AM hub for '48 models and an FM for '49.

http://sheldonbrown.com/retroraleigh...an-kohler.html

That rear brake cable is begging for some top tube cable clips. Velo Orange sells them: http://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...ing-clips.html
If you are looking for a period look, a Fulcrum clip and a pulley would do nicely.

clubman 08-17-12 10:51 AM

It's not a clubman. The lugs are more ornate. This is a 48 Lenton Clubman

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3.../headtube2.jpg

No decals, crank and pedals are wrong, the seat tube bands are not original and it would have a single butted 531 decal. Maybe a Sports repaint?

This one may have the smaller bcd 1930's chainring... (courtesy Hilary Stone)

http://hilarystone.com/images/sale%2...aleigh_S46.jpg

photogravity 08-17-12 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clubman (Post 14618338)
It's not a clubman. The lugs are more ornate. This is a 48 Lenton Clubman

No decals, crank and pedals are wrong, the seat tube bands are not original and it would have a single butted 531 decal. Maybe a Sports repaint?

This one may have the smaller bcd 1930's chainring... (courtesy Hilary Stone)

It's definitely a repaint based on the OP's comments. I'll be interested to get some better pictures of the bike's details, that's for sure. :)

BTW, Docbilly asked about this bicycle on the Gentleman Cyclists list earlier today. rhm and I have responded with a little info already.

Docbilly 08-17-12 01:00 PM

Great Help guys!!! Iīm so exited about this bike as I am a mountain biker who decided to get an oldie to grab a cup of coffee with some style!!!
The bike is definetely a repaint, and the seat tube bands are not original. They were added in the 70s by the guy who repainted it. The only stuff changed was the seat, the handlebars(the originals broke down while the guy was riding in the 60s). Maybe some other stuff got changed as i bought this from a 80 year old dude, who got it as a present from his granny in 1952, formely owned by his elder cousin.
Nice clamps for the rear brake cable!!! It was being held by some nasty tapes i removed to clean the frame. Ill check the Dia Compe clamps wich are really nice, i gotta check if they do worldwide shipping as I love in Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Acording to the rear hub its a 1947 model it reads 5 47. The frame seems a 48 as it reads AM5503. Its getting dark here already, tomorrow Ill rake some nice detailed pictures and ill try to measure the seatpost!!!
Thanx all and lets al figuere out what I bought!!! Whatever it is, I already love it!!!!
Billy

Fenway 08-17-12 05:04 PM

Lawnmower throttle control hardware happens to be exactly the same as some common bicycle parts if you need spare cable fender clips/clamps relatively inexpensively. http://fastenerline.com/532-lawn-mow...ottle-hardware. Most ACE Hardware stores in the US have the specialty hardware box full of the stuff in the loose screws section. ~$1 each or less compared to what is shown on that website.

rhm 08-17-12 05:42 PM

The seat post is probably 25.4 mm. All the old (40's - 50's) Raleighs I've ever seen had 25.4 mm seat posts, including my RRA which is butted 531 tubing and the lightest frame in my fleet.

jrecoi 08-17-12 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenway (Post 14619866)
Lawnmower throttle control hardware happens to be exactly the same as some common bicycle parts if you need spare cable fender clips/clamps relatively inexpensively. http://fastenerline.com/532-lawn-mow...ottle-hardware. Most ACE Hardware stores in the US have the specialty hardware box full of the stuff in the loose screws section. ~$1 each or less compared to what is shown on that website.

This is fascinating, I thought that the Raleigh spring steel top tube clips were rather irreplacable, hence why I suggested the Dia-Compe clips.

sailorbenjamin 08-17-12 09:12 PM

if you look down the seat tube or the head tube, do you see a seam? A plain Sports model will have seams as will some of the slightly fancier models. A 531 bike will have seamless tubing;
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...n/IMG_8117.jpg
Not the greatest pic, it's easier to see in real life.

Docbilly 08-18-12 06:58 PM

Guys!!! Here are the new pics. I looked at the seat tube to take a picture to find wether there are seams or not but Iīm a bit confused and my camera run out of batery just on the last pic, which was precisey this. It looks pretty much as the one u posted before. Tomorrow i can go take a new pic! Here are the new ones lets see what we find!
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=51f84...F576E99C%21348
Thanx a lot guys!!!

Docbilly 08-19-12 12:46 AM

In case you couldnīt get in with the last link!

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resi...LvyQNWxOOGm7m8
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resi...G8bmZ0a4TlqaH0

nlerner 08-19-12 06:10 AM

Lots of nice parts on that rig, including headset clip and stem, cool crankset. I agree it's not a Clubman given the lack of windowed lugs, but maybe a Lenton Sports? The lugs are similar to that on my '50 Lenton Tourist:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-j...uristNew12.jpg

photogravity 08-19-12 08:05 AM

^ I think you're correct Neal... In 1948 it appears they placed the fender stay attachment points to the to the rear of the fork and seatstay instead of at the dropouts. My knowledge of Raleigh bicycles is nowhere as expansive as yours, so I shall defer to you as the subject matter expert.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3074/2...6202a952_b.jpg
Raleigh Lenton Sports 1948 by rebalrid, on Flickr

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3278/2...0dfeacfa_b.jpg
Raleigh Lenton Sports 1948 by rebalrid, on Flickr

jrecoi 08-19-12 09:38 AM

I'm tending to agree with Lenton Sports. The shifter and cable routing is clearly an aftermarket affair, from the 60s-70s, and possibly the rear wheel is also aftermarket. The shifter pulley is still there; normally these are fitted close to the top tube, in conjunction with a fulcrum clip on the top tube. The current arrangement is more typical of the 70s.

We need more information on the stampings on the tire and rim, if it is 26 x 1 1/4 or 26 x 1 3/8, this can help or hinder finding additional tires. 26 x 1 1/4 rims are rather hard to find tires for, at least in the US (and impossible to find in Colombia), although it doesn't hurt to poke around in Buenos Aires. 26 x 1 3/8 tires are much easier to find in the US, I don't doubt that in a capital city like Buenos Aires, you can find tires for this size, particularly in the older, more established bike shops.

The stem looks like it has a crack at the handlebar clamp, you might want to check the diameter of the handlebar, Sheldon Brown warned that stuffing a 25.4mm handlebar in the 23.8mm handlebar clamp can cause the kind of crack seen here. This is a bit of a mixed blessing, on one hand, the stem may or may not be fatally stuffed, on the other hand, this frees you to buy a classic looking stem that fits currently available handlebars.

Docbilly 08-19-12 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrecoi (Post 14624531)
I'm tending to agree with Lenton Sports. The shifter and cable routing is clearly an aftermarket affair, from the 60s-70s, and possibly the rear wheel is also aftermarket. The shifter pulley is still there; normally these are fitted close to the top tube, in conjunction with a fulcrum clip on the top tube. The current arrangement is more typical of the 70s.

We need more information on the stampings on the tire and rim, if it is 26 x 1 1/4 or 26 x 1 3/8, this can help or hinder finding additional tires. 26 x 1 1/4 rims are rather hard to find tires for, at least in the US (and impossible to find in Colombia), although it doesn't hurt to poke around in Buenos Aires. 26 x 1 3/8 tires are much easier to find in the US, I don't doubt that in a capital city like Buenos Aires, you can find tires for this size, particularly in the older, more established bike shops.

The stem looks like it has a crack at the handlebar clamp, you might want to check the diameter of the handlebar, Sheldon Brown warned that stuffing a 25.4mm handlebar in the 23.8mm handlebar clamp can cause the kind of crack seen here. This is a bit of a mixed blessing, on one hand, the stem may or may not be fatally stuffed, on the other hand, this frees you to buy a classic looking stem that fits currently available handlebars.

Wow i didnt see that stem crack!!! Iīll go check it right now. If it does you say I shpuld get a new stem wich handles thicker handlebars? I should measure both. I found these
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1950...item4606a5fdb4
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Rale...item2c67781de0

But if the handlebar is 25.4 and the clamp is 23.8 it can break again right? Im not sure if there are many vintage looking stem and handlebars around!

clubman 08-19-12 12:09 PM

Dallas...is this your 48 Lenton Sports too? Some pretty.

Velognome 08-19-12 12:49 PM

Maybe a repainted Super Sport? Hmmmmm?

photogravity 08-19-12 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clubman (Post 14624989)
Dallas...is this your 48 Lenton Sports too? Some pretty.

I wish it was mine! :) It is actually a bike someone on Flickr has.

jrecoi 08-19-12 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Docbilly (Post 14624954)
Wow i didnt see that stem crack!!! Iīll go check it right now. If it does you say I shpuld get a new stem wich handles thicker handlebars? I should measure both. I found these
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1950...item4606a5fdb4
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Rale...item2c67781de0

But if the handlebar is 25.4 and the clamp is 23.8 it can break again right? Im not sure if there are many vintage looking stem and handlebars around!

The vintage Raleigh stems have that same small diameter clamp, and are shorter than the original stem. Actually what I was suggesting was taking the stem from a 70s or 80s road bike (or new if it is available in a bike shop), 50-60mm stem length and use that.

The current suspicions that we have about its origins indicate that it originally came with drop handlebars combined with a short stem, a setup displayed by photogravity's bike. Another possibility which might be forced on you due to the availability of quill stems in BA, is using the combination of a longish stem, combined with a Porteur bar as demonstrated by nlerner's bike.

Velognome 08-20-12 08:49 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

http://www.bikeforums.net/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Docbilly http://www.bikeforums.net/images/but...post-right.png
Wow i didnt see that stem crack!!! Iīll go check it right now. If it does you say I shpuld get a new stem wich handles thicker handlebars? I should measure both. I found these
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1950...item4606a5fdb4
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Rale...item2c67781de0

But if the handlebar is 25.4 and the clamp is 23.8 it can break again right? Im not sure if there are many vintage looking stem and handlebars around!



The vintage Raleigh stems have that same small diameter clamp, and are shorter than the original stem. Actually what I was suggesting was taking the stem from a 70s or 80s road bike (or new if it is available in a bike shop), 50-60mm stem length and use that.

The current suspicions that we have about its origins indicate that it originally came with drop handlebars combined with a short stem, a setup displayed by photogravity's bike. Another possibility which might be forced on you due to the availability of quill stems in BA, is using the combination of a longish stem, combined with a Porteur bar as demonstrated by nlerner's bike.
Rather, find a set of small diameter bars and keep the stem. Long stems sometimes look odd. I picked up this Raleigh/Lenton stem and handle bar set a year of so ago for just a few $ on Ebay...they're out there, you just gotta be patient
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=268415

clubman 08-20-12 08:58 AM

Here's another steel Raleigh variant from back in the day. Lenton Sports and Clubman?

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-V...00/lenton1.jpg


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