Saw a Tommaso but way out of my reach
08-17-12, 07:27 AM
#1
aka: Mike J.
Thread Starter
Saw a Tommaso but way out of my reach
I stopped in at a local shop this week during lunch thinking it might be the one that had a touring bike listed on the local CL recently, but it wasn't them. I wandered over by the consignment bikes and saw this Tommaso, really clean and nice looking. I only got one pic, non-drive side, not full frame, cell phone shot, so sorry about that.
Any guesses on what year or model it might be? How do these Tommaso's ride? Where do they fit into the Italian steel steed heirarchy (doesn't really matter to me, more just curiosity)? It did look really nice. This one could concievably (sp?) bump the Colnago out of my basement, asking price is around the same for both, thinking about it some, probably no chance that it will happen, so posting this just to perpetuate the day dream a while longer. It did look really nice though.
I will post the only pic of the Tomasso that I have, and I will also post a pic of my Colnago for you to compare it to. Feel free to give me your opinions, should be interesting to hear what others think.
Edit to add: The Tommaso had a 6-speed freewheel on back, not quite a corncob but not far from one, my Colnago has an 8-speed cassette. Both would work fit-wise. Not sure if the Tommaso had original paint though since it looked way too clean and perfect.
Any guesses on what year or model it might be? How do these Tommaso's ride? Where do they fit into the Italian steel steed heirarchy (doesn't really matter to me, more just curiosity)? It did look really nice. This one could concievably (sp?) bump the Colnago out of my basement, asking price is around the same for both, thinking about it some, probably no chance that it will happen, so posting this just to perpetuate the day dream a while longer. It did look really nice though.
I will post the only pic of the Tomasso that I have, and I will also post a pic of my Colnago for you to compare it to. Feel free to give me your opinions, should be interesting to hear what others think.
Edit to add: The Tommaso had a 6-speed freewheel on back, not quite a corncob but not far from one, my Colnago has an 8-speed cassette. Both would work fit-wise. Not sure if the Tommaso had original paint though since it looked way too clean and perfect.
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Last edited by treebound; 08-17-12 at 07:43 AM. Reason: added stuff
08-17-12, 07:53 AM
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Looks like the Tommaso might be NOS. Not many people would do an authentic repaint on one and recreate the Ten Speed Drive importer decal on the seattube.
I can't tell if that's C-Record or Croce D'Aune from the photo. How much are they asking for it? Might be worth it.
-Kurt
I can't tell if that's C-Record or Croce D'Aune from the photo. How much are they asking for it? Might be worth it.
-Kurt
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08-17-12, 08:03 AM
#3
aka: Mike J.
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$1,500 on the consignment tag.
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08-17-12, 08:14 AM
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Wow! That's a nica bike! I'm glad it's not my size, but the parts are worth more than the frame if parted out. I would love the have such a beautiful stallion in my limited collection. Get the bike!
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08-17-12, 09:01 AM
#5
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I believe your Colnago is a Master Olympic, is that right? I don't know jack about that Tommaso model but many people, myself included, consider the Masters to be the best riding steel frames out there. But everyone is different.
Also, the Tommaso looks bigger than your Colnago, are you looking to go up a size?
I believe Tommaso was a house brand for 10-speed drive.
Also, the Tommaso looks bigger than your Colnago, are you looking to go up a size?
I believe Tommaso was a house brand for 10-speed drive.
08-17-12, 09:14 AM
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"Tommaso" were the house brand of importer/distributor Ten Speed Drive. Contract built in Italy (Billato) and finished in the US (alignment/facing/paint) They are good bikes, but personally they have no cachet to me.
08-17-12, 09:15 AM
#7
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Beautiful Tommaso and Colnago, both of them.
I believe Tommaso was a house brand for the importer, Ten Speed Drive. TSD, as everyone knows, imported bikes for Guerciotti, Mondonico, Rossin, among many others. The frame itself could have been built by any one of those builders. The Columbus frame tube sticker is your best bet for identifying the tubeset. I can barely make out, but looks like 2 letters, so I'll bet a Campy derailleur it is Columbus SL. That was the gold standard for race bikes back in the day, better than Cromor or Aelle, but not as fancy as SLX. The fancier Columbus tubesets like TSX, EL/OS, and others came later.
That looks like custom-ordered paint. The TSD frames were typically painted in the US for better quality, and you could pay up for custom paint schemes. The yellow-orange-red 3-color-fade is a classic 80's TSD paint scheme and still looks beautiful to me.
I love my collection of Guerciotti's, hence the screen name. I've owned a LeMond Team Z with similar full Campy C-Record group . Candidly, though, unless it is to be a pristine show bike or sunday rider, I'd stick with the Colnago with more modern components. Since Tommaso was a house brand, it won't have a real collectibility premium like a Guerciotti, Poghliaghi, Merckx, or Colnago. And the performance out of the C-Record group was poor compared to a modern group.... Those C-Record Delta brakes are beautiful but scary.
Finally, the Tommaso brand has been taken over by some new modern importer, and they are busy cranking out cheap fixies, aluminum bikes, carbon frames, commuters, etc out of some factory in China. All the kids are riding Tommasos now. There's nothing wrong with that, of course, as that is exactly what TSD did with the name in the '80's. But that means any collector brand value is now going to be shot, almost as badly as the Masi name.
Personally, I'd love to rock that bike. But I also think your Colnago is a better classic value. YMMV.
-- Guerc
I believe Tommaso was a house brand for the importer, Ten Speed Drive. TSD, as everyone knows, imported bikes for Guerciotti, Mondonico, Rossin, among many others. The frame itself could have been built by any one of those builders. The Columbus frame tube sticker is your best bet for identifying the tubeset. I can barely make out, but looks like 2 letters, so I'll bet a Campy derailleur it is Columbus SL. That was the gold standard for race bikes back in the day, better than Cromor or Aelle, but not as fancy as SLX. The fancier Columbus tubesets like TSX, EL/OS, and others came later.
That looks like custom-ordered paint. The TSD frames were typically painted in the US for better quality, and you could pay up for custom paint schemes. The yellow-orange-red 3-color-fade is a classic 80's TSD paint scheme and still looks beautiful to me.
I love my collection of Guerciotti's, hence the screen name. I've owned a LeMond Team Z with similar full Campy C-Record group . Candidly, though, unless it is to be a pristine show bike or sunday rider, I'd stick with the Colnago with more modern components. Since Tommaso was a house brand, it won't have a real collectibility premium like a Guerciotti, Poghliaghi, Merckx, or Colnago. And the performance out of the C-Record group was poor compared to a modern group.... Those C-Record Delta brakes are beautiful but scary.
Finally, the Tommaso brand has been taken over by some new modern importer, and they are busy cranking out cheap fixies, aluminum bikes, carbon frames, commuters, etc out of some factory in China. All the kids are riding Tommasos now. There's nothing wrong with that, of course, as that is exactly what TSD did with the name in the '80's. But that means any collector brand value is now going to be shot, almost as badly as the Masi name.
Personally, I'd love to rock that bike. But I also think your Colnago is a better classic value. YMMV.
-- Guerc
08-17-12, 09:23 AM
#8
aka: Mike J.
Thread Starter
The Colnago is a Master Light, got it from a one-man shop near where I used to live before he lost his Colnago dealership agreement which was transferred to a bigger operation.
I haven't measured the Tomasso, but the guy at that shop said he thought it was around a 56cm ctc, or so. I was thinking of trying to work a swap with my Quattro Assi fixed gear track bike but don't think the shop or the bike owner would go for it. So if someone wants to go for the Tomasso then feel free, all I ask is that I get to test ride it for a few blocks (but not mandatory). It just really stood out from all the rest of the bikes near it, really really sweet looking bike in person. Would be neat if someone here got it and could post a ride report.
Edit: And thank you Guerc for the detailed thoughts, appreciated and helped to decide to keep this as just a lunchtime infatuation. Still, it does look real nice in person. I think I'll take the Colnago out for a ride around town tomorrow morning, I've been riding my more pedestrian bikes lately so I think I need to re-fresh myself with the ML.
The Tomasso is at South Shore Cyclery in Cudahy, WI. Seems like a nice shop, only been there once now but will have to make it a point to stop in again.
I haven't measured the Tomasso, but the guy at that shop said he thought it was around a 56cm ctc, or so. I was thinking of trying to work a swap with my Quattro Assi fixed gear track bike but don't think the shop or the bike owner would go for it. So if someone wants to go for the Tomasso then feel free, all I ask is that I get to test ride it for a few blocks (but not mandatory). It just really stood out from all the rest of the bikes near it, really really sweet looking bike in person. Would be neat if someone here got it and could post a ride report.
Edit: And thank you Guerc for the detailed thoughts, appreciated and helped to decide to keep this as just a lunchtime infatuation. Still, it does look real nice in person. I think I'll take the Colnago out for a ride around town tomorrow morning, I've been riding my more pedestrian bikes lately so I think I need to re-fresh myself with the ML.
The Tomasso is at South Shore Cyclery in Cudahy, WI. Seems like a nice shop, only been there once now but will have to make it a point to stop in again.
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Last edited by treebound; 08-17-12 at 09:32 AM. Reason: added edit text
08-17-12, 09:26 AM
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Not entirely unreasonable. A bit high, but not unreasonable.
The subcontracted Bilatto frames are of excellent quality (Masi Nuova Stradas were made by Billato as well, for instance), and the TSD paint jobs are unparalleled.
-Kurt
The subcontracted Bilatto frames are of excellent quality (Masi Nuova Stradas were made by Billato as well, for instance), and the TSD paint jobs are unparalleled.
-Kurt
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Last edited by cudak888; 08-17-12 at 05:32 PM.
08-17-12, 10:42 AM
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I believe your Colnago is a Master Olympic, is that right? I don't know jack about that Tommaso model but many people, myself included, consider the Masters to be the best riding steel frames out there. But everyone is different.
Also, the Tommaso looks bigger than your Colnago, are you looking to go up a size?
I believe Tommaso was a house brand for 10-speed drive.
Also, the Tommaso looks bigger than your Colnago, are you looking to go up a size?
I believe Tommaso was a house brand for 10-speed drive.
All of my Masters, in various forms, have been superior riders.
Fun to own as well.
No way I'd swap out a Master Light for a Tommaso.
Heck, I wouldn't have swapped any of my Supers either.
08-17-12, 12:52 PM
#11
aka: Mike J.
Thread Starter
re: Colnago paint: I cringe a little anytime I see someone read "SoftPaint" on the frame, then see their thumbnail elevate and begin to head toward the paint. I guess it's a wet paint sign sort of thing.
I don't know if that is what Kurt is talking about regarding the Colnago paint, the lack of hard coating or whatever it is or isn't.
Build quality, if that is regarding the frameset then it seems fine to me, if to the components added then I got it as a frameset and the shop owner built it up with some Shimano 600 stuff he had available which works just fine as long as I ride and lube it enough to keep it functioning correctly. This year I had to lube/flush the brifters to get them working again due to lack of use.
As to the Tommaso (which apparently I spell differently in each posting) I might wander back by there tomorrow at lunch to check the size and fit, just out of curiosity of course.
If I do get back there I will try to verify the components as well. It is a nice looking bike in case I didn't mention that before. 
I don't know if that is what Kurt is talking about regarding the Colnago paint, the lack of hard coating or whatever it is or isn't.
Build quality, if that is regarding the frameset then it seems fine to me, if to the components added then I got it as a frameset and the shop owner built it up with some Shimano 600 stuff he had available which works just fine as long as I ride and lube it enough to keep it functioning correctly. This year I had to lube/flush the brifters to get them working again due to lack of use.
As to the Tommaso (which apparently I spell differently in each posting) I might wander back by there tomorrow at lunch to check the size and fit, just out of curiosity of course.
If I do get back there I will try to verify the components as well. It is a nice looking bike in case I didn't mention that before.
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08-17-12, 01:03 PM
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I like your current Colnago better, but I understand the feeling of needing to try something new. Just don't do something you'll regret later.
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08-17-12, 02:23 PM
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what do you think of this tommaso?
https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/bik/3210347519.html
it's been on seattle's cl so long, he might take $450 for it, as is. seems like a good deal...
https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/bik/3210347519.html
it's been on seattle's cl so long, he might take $450 for it, as is. seems like a good deal...
08-17-12, 04:18 PM
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I think they are great bikes! Here is my '87 TLX (SLX tubing) and the catalog reference.
https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalog...o88(tsd)/2.jpg
https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalog...o88(tsd)/2.jpg
08-17-12, 05:38 PM
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I think they are great bikes! Here is my '87 TLX (SLX tubing) and the catalog reference.
https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalog...o88(tsd)/2.jpg
https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalog...o88(tsd)/2.jpg
08-17-12, 05:50 PM
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I miss Ten Speed Drive and their Italian lines. I remember their ads in the bike magazines in the 80's. Where are the people that were behind the TSD concept now? Anyone know?
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08-17-12, 06:07 PM
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^ I have no idea, but I do have my TSD bicycle. 
08-17-12, 06:13 PM
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At some point in the past I found a catalog of the TSD Bilatto Guerciottis and Tommasos with the frame specs. What I found most interesting that both makes had some models with 74 degree heads and some with 72. The inexpensive Guercs were 74 but in the middle of the line changed to 72. The Tommasos started with 72 but switched to 74 at their mid point. I guess it gave a distinct difference in feeling between the two TSD brands.
https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/tommaso88(tsd)/
https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/tommaso85(tsd)/
08-17-12, 06:32 PM
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Those catalogs are great. I'd like to find one for my 85 Guerciotti.
08-17-12, 06:35 PM
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08-17-12, 06:35 PM
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08-17-12, 06:47 PM
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Last edited by cbresciani; 08-17-12 at 06:56 PM.
08-18-12, 12:11 AM
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https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalog...ciotti85(tsd)/
Wow... Just wow.... Thanks...
In 1991 or so I had a TSD / Guerciotti catalog with all the custom paint jobs available. All sorts of 3-color fades, smoke effects, etc. I kept it for about a decade, then lost it. Anyone ever see one of these catalogs?
Wow... Just wow.... Thanks...
In 1991 or so I had a TSD / Guerciotti catalog with all the custom paint jobs available. All sorts of 3-color fades, smoke effects, etc. I kept it for about a decade, then lost it. Anyone ever see one of these catalogs?
08-18-12, 06:13 AM
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Many people think Tommaso are italian bikes, well they are but technically they are not. As for who made them, probably billato but even scapin and bianchi back in the day were making bikes for other guys. Some of the original lmonds were billato, other ones scapin, other ones who ever was able to build them. Bertoni worked with bianchi but i believe some models were built by scapin, With all those american/italian built bikes you wont know who really made them probably ever unless you knew some insider that could confirm the sources of the frames.
1500 is not a bad price if new and with those components, if used 1500 is too much.
1500 is not a bad price if new and with those components, if used 1500 is too much.