Help to identify Vintage English Bicycle. Odd lugs possibly 1958?
 

Hi there,
Maybe some of you can help with my restoration project? I found this bicycle, and am having trouble identifying the maker.

I cant seem to match the lugs anywhere nor the serial number. Its stamped on the dropout "CS5566". Additionally there is a "101" and a couple "W"'s

The crankset and the cogs are Williams and I think original (cotter pins are so hard to remove) and stamped "AY" which I understand to make them from 1958.
It came with Weinmann Center-pull brakes, which I'm not sure are original.
The wheels included a 1972 three speed sturmey archer hub , but I doubt it is original considering the braze-ons on the frame.

I'm in the process of cleaning and removing all the paint ( It had as many 6 coats of paint on it!!) It is possible the original paint job may have been blue and green? but its VERY hard to tell.
oh and bluemels mudguards

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Hello Karen welcome to the forums. Looks like an interesting project.

rather unusual lockring isn it? Check your local shops and see if anyone has a Cotterpin press. then spray then with penetrating oil a few days before having them try it.

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I don't know what it is, but it's a very nice bike. Might be older than 1958.

'looks earlier to me. Can we have photos of seat cluster, both drops with a contrasting background, bridges? When you are peeling away layers, check for old "mounting" locations (scratches, gouge, small dents) and carefully feel for nails sticking through the lugs. It looks hearth brazed. The BB lug is interesting. Also a measurement between the badge mounting holes would be helpful if convenient.

thanks for having a look I'll post some more photos tomorrow!
oh and I forgot to mention the bottom bracket is Baylis Wiley!

That is tight chainring sizing -- 49-47? I have always liked 49-46, which provides a great half-step progression with 14-16-18-20-23 in back.

It actually is a 49-46

What are the braze-ons on the frame, that make you doubt the originality of the three speed hub? No doubt you are right, I just can't see them very well. The double chain ring also argues against the three speed.

Can you show a photo of the Weinmann brakes and levers?

I to would say earlier at first look but don't pump frame picks date right about what the OP says it is.

The badge mounting holes are 7 cm apart.
Im also including some more photos of details requested. Weinmann 750/999http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=268425http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=268426http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=268427http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=268428http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=268429http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=268430http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=268431http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=268432http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=268433http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=268434http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=268435http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=268436

Well, the standing expert on old British frames is Norris Lockley, who is most easily found on the CR list. That said, I know he is away in France for the coming month or so. He is frequently out of touch while there. Still, you could post this to the classic rendezvous list-serve (classic-rendezvous-lightweight-vintage-bicycles@googlegroups.com). There are a few other British frame experts there, too.

Keep us posted on what you discover. It's an interesting frame.

Ah, right, now I see the shifter bosses. I only saw one before. I'd say yeah, that is consistent with a 1958 date, or a little later. I agree, the Weinmann brake looks like a later one.

2 shifter bosses, so it's not a suicide FD. My 58 Raleigh had a suicide FD.

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a few more bits

The drops look like the bike was ridden fixed. I think it's 30's with shift bosses added later. Sorry to keep bugging you but I would like to see the right frame dropout features.

here it is! Thanks every one for the input.

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1958? Dawes
 

Hi Karen - Very old thread so presumably you managed to identify this old Dawes. I have a very similar frame, minus a couple of gear cable braze-ons, and minus the pump holders that double as brake cable guides - serial no. LS9616. Same lugs, same bb shell, same shifter braze-ons, same toothed dropouts, same grease nipple and I'm pleased to say very similar fork-crown, as I was unsure whether my fork was original, so looks like it was. Mine had been converted to a fixie. I have another couple of Dawes of similar vintage, one of which (BS288) has the same lugs and the same Baylis Wiley bb, but plain bb shell, the other with different lugs but same shell (HS2087)
That shell seems to be fairly common on bike of that age - I have a 1959 Carlton with same shell though no grease nipple.
These old Dawes are hard to date as Dawes lost all their records in a fire, hence my interest. I wonder if yours is earlier that 1958 as the chainset might not be original. If you read this and have managed to get any more info about it in the 5 years that have passed I'd be very interested!