amirinisrael

I'd like to make some Campy GS/Simplex/F.B. look-alike hubs, with interchangeable parts.
For that I need oddball 9mm x 26 tpi and 10mm x 26 tpi taps and dies.

Such taps and dies were available in the 70's, at least for chasing the threads.
Does anybody have these taps and dies that they are willing to sell, or know where to find them?

This is such a strange size that it was never in any tool catalog or engineering manual.

Amir

ftwelder

Taps and dies won't work for your application (I assume you want the hub to roll smoothly). You need to find someone with a lathe and serious tool room skills. I have seen your inquiries elsewhere. Has no-one come forth to help you yet?

Do you have anything collected for this? Do you have a drawing or a sample piece?

Where did you get that thread specification? I think you may be looking for M9X1 and M10X1. TPI means "threads per inch",mm is metric as you know. No-one uses two different standards for a single fastener unless it is some custom thing.

rootboy 

Though, get this Frank. I never thought Campagnolo would use Imperial threading or fasteners on anything. Until I discovered, with some help and after pulling my hair out for a while, that they used 5-40 machine screws for the Record top tube cable clips. Go figure.

iab

I can't believe that. There is no way Campagnolo/FB/Simplex used a lathe to fabricate their axles. Way too inefficient. There is no doubt in my mind that they used taps and dies to thread their axles and cones/nuts/etc.

As for the OP, why not get a custom tap and die set made? There are plenty of places to do the job, google is your friend.

Doug5150

I'd agree that mixed measurements usually aren't used like that (a thread with a metric diameter but a English threads gauge). It's not impossible but rather unlikely.

Speaking of gauges, the device that you use to identify the number of threads and the units of threads, is called a.... thread gauge.
This page shows a pic of one-
https://www.rhrtools.co.uk/shop2/inde...roducts_id=279
They come in different common varieties (English, metric, Whitworth, acme, square, ect ect) and they do not cost much to buy--the shipping charge may cost you as much as the tool itself. They make identifying unknown thread pitches very easy & accurate,,,,, but you would probably have to order them online as they are a machinist tool that most typical tool stores won't have. The way you use it is, each leaf has cut marks at typical thread intervals and is stamped with a number saying what size that thread interval is. You try sticking the leaf teeth into the threads of whatever part you have, and only the leaf with the matching thread-count will fit perfect.

Also a die will not work for cutting threads very well beyond maybe 2 or 3 diameters of whatever stock it is used on. The die will wander off-center further and further until it jams.
You would probably need to have the axle threads cut on a lathe, as noted.
(The good news here however is that if it really does need a mixed-system thread, that is no problem to do on a lathe... but both the axle and ALL the nuts you needed would have to be lathe-cut.)

rootboy 

Sorry but this just does not compute in my brain, Iab. An automatic screw cutting lathe would be way more efficient that using dies to make axles, I would think. Although I suppose they could have used dies, but probably mounted in a lathe.

ftwelder

I am not sure but I think he is talking about hub shells and threading bearing cups and freewheel interface rather than axles that have rolled threads.

If they were to cut external threads it would in fact be done in a turret lathe with a thread cutting head. In a metal working shop, any device that spins the material rather than the tool is a lathe.

T-Mar

Many Italian bicycle threads use a metric diameter with imperial pitch (see below). Agreed, it's very poor engineering but that's the way it is. Then they use imperial for some things like pedals and headets and metric for other things like rear derailleur mounting bolts, dropout adjuster screws and fender/rack eyelets. It's very frustrating and one of my pet peeves about Campagnolo.

Bottom bracket threading: 36mm x 24TPI

Freewheels: 35mm x 24TPI

Axles: 9.5mm x 26 TPI, 10mm x 26 TPI

rootboy 

That's the machine I was thinking of. Not a screw cutting lathe.

amirinisrael

Common guys. Some of you must have been around in the 70's. Campy owned the high-end market back then. Good shops had good tools including campy axle thread chasers. Cyclo (UK) even made tools for Campy parts. And no-one threw Campy tools away (... the damn tools sprouted legs and walked out by themselves.)

There were thread chasers for Campy threads because Campy stuff got banged up and was expensive to replace..
That's what I'm looking for. If there are any old shop hands on the list, please look hard and deep in your tool chest (I'll pay handsomely) for some decent thread tooling.

And yes, I have a lathe (two actually: a 7" Emco & a 10" SB) and can cut the thread manually. But that's nuts if a tap and die are available.

Amir

Charles Wahl

And yet (certainly no disrespect intended toward T-Mar) the French have been vilified for rationalizing everything to metric consistently; when the fault really lies elsewhere.

T-Mar

Personally, don't believe I've ever villified the French for the metric system, outside of cautioning potential buyers about the limited availability of parts. From an engineering standpoint, it's the most logical measurement system in the world, though I would have chosen a different base unit for measurement and mass. However, I do routinely denounce the Italian's hybrid threading system (my chosen adjective would be another word that, though used correctly, would be banned by the automated system censor. Yes, I feel that strongly about it.)

BTW, in my earlier post I erred in stating the dropout derailleur mounting holes were metric, They're hybrid metric and imperial too, with a 10mm x 26TPI thread. Yet the dropout adjusters and eyelets are metric threads of 3 x0.5mm and 5 x 0.5mm respectively. How bad is that, using the hybrid and metric theading on the same part!

ftwelder

well, I clearly have much to learn in the "mixing of threads" department but the fact remains, the correct way to machine a hub body or thread-in bearing cups is cutting single-point threads with a lathe.

Any tool distributor can supply custom taps/dies reamers whatever you want. try MSCdirect.com.

Doug5150

-Or not.
A custom tap in OP's sizes would probably cost at least $150 each. $200 wouldn't surprise me.

This place sells a pair of hand taps (plug & bottoming) for cutting Schrader valve cap threads,,,,,, and they want $125 for each of the two taps.
https://catalog.tapcotaps.com/viewite...&sortorder=asc

MSC/Enco sells single taps and dies in most smaller standard sizes--but standard sizes don't include mixed English/metric measures.
Tapco does make some mixed-measure taps (with decimal diameters and English threads [TPI]) but they don't list either sizes that OP wanted.

JohnDThompson 

26tpi tap & die sets do turn up on eBay. Not really cheap, but probably less than a custom tap or die.

ftwelder

Doug, with all due respect, $200 is certainly not a barrier when purchasing the wrong tool for a job.

Anyway, as I may have mentioned before, it's a lathe job but custom taps are available if that is what he wants to do at a cost

rootboy 

+1
Going to have to mount a tap or die in a tail stock anyway if accuracy is the goal. And if a lathe is used, I can see that cutting threads with a tap and die used in a lathe would be a lot easier than cutting all the threads on the lathe itself.