calebroberts

Hi folks, I found it interesting to find a couple or 3 threads regarding problem transactions with Hilary Stone ... all closed now or else I'd just add my post to one of those. So, then I wonder if there's advice for an approach to find some satisfaction with my so-far failed transaction with Mr Stone.

I requested to purchase a part from Hilary July 2 this year. After sending him payment via paypal, I never received a response indicating payment was received - no response ever to several email requesting confirmation. I kept contacting him periodically until finally 2.5 months later he wrote: "I am really sorry do not know what happened it was sent a long time ago. I will refund you through Paypal this weekend. " This was the first contact from him after sending him payment. Now, a couple more months later I've received no refund and no further communication - no responses to many more emails I've sent. I started to wonder if maybe Hilary had died but I see his web site continues to be update.

This was a rare part and a shame if it is lost. I also hate to lose 145 GBP + shipping. In other threads, there are narratives of problematic transactions, defenses of Hilary's business techniques, discussion of the perils of international shipping, etc. Seeing that those threads are closed, I wonder if it's common that somehow these problems have eventually been solved or if the customers have just given-up?

As for international shipping: I buy many items from sellers in UK (and, France Germany, Netherlands, Italy) - dozens of items large and small - for years. I'm in Colorado, USA. I've never had an item lost and items arrive either very quickly or at least within about 3 weeks. In contrast to these experiences, I find it discouraging to read that one customer had two separate items from Hilary fail to arrive.

So...any advice? thanks, Caleb

repechage

He went off ebay some time ago.
As he has a website I think, you might be able to deduce if it has had recent updating without too much trouble.
He used to post to the CR list, I do not know if he posts to the goog' version.
Beyond that, I would think for the amount involved, a more direct approach by post and or by phone call would be in order.
I would think for a transaction of that magnitude he would have proof of shipment, and or a tracking number.
Yes, that costs.
I have had a few items from Europe that had pretty steep mailing costs, like 25 and 29 euros for items less than a kilo, but easy fort the seller and me to validate what is going on.

I have never dealt with Hilary myself, I inquired about an item once, but never received an answer to my reasonable inquiry.

Velognome 

I've have several transactions with Hilary, all good, prompt and to my satisfaction. Sorry your having a bit of a problem.

Grand Bois

I've had a couple, both very positive. I get the impression that he keeps himself very busy.

rhm

Two preliminary points. 1. For reasons I don't understand, the moderators tend to close threads about Hilary before the conversation is finished. Let us hope they don't do that this time, because I can't see how it benefits anyone, including Mr. Stone. 2. No one doubts that many people have had positive experiences buying from him. That is very encouraging. But it is not helpful in the present situation. How Hilary handles happy customers is not the issue here. There are also people who have had less positive experiences. That is the issue here.

Anyway, that said:

I believe his web site lists a phone number. I would use it.

The times he sent me things, they arrived very quickly, well packed, and if I recall correctly, they came by DHL. Not a carrier with a reputation for losing things. He must have a record of shipping the part. If he cannot find the record of having shipped the part, well... I hesitate to speculate, but I think it reasonable to ask him to find that record. With the tracking number in hand, you can go to DHL or whatever and ask them what became of it.

Since you paid by Paypal, I think it safe to assume you will get your money back. I realize you'd rather have the part, but if no one can find it, you will have to settle for the money.

Anyway, please keep us informed, and let's hope the thread doesn't get closed prematurely.

cobrabyte

Well, one benefit of this thread is I now know about the site lol

Pars 

I thought Paypal had a 45 day limit? Maybe they changed that.

And I would agree with rhm... threads that are closed before resolution have no benefit to anyone.

I've never done business with this individual, but judging by the number of problems and threads I have seen, I would personally think twice about it.

jeirvine 

Call him. If that fails, then I'd forward the emails where he said he'd refund) to PayPal, and maybe they'd help even though it's so long after the fact.

bikingshearer 

I had one transaction (two items) with him, including one or two preliminary inquiries. I would say his reaponse times were well within acceptable tolerances - not the fasted I've seen, but plenty quick enoough. My sense is that he is honorable. I agree with the previous posters - contact him directly via phone or e-mail. It's worth a shot, and he is not a fly-by-night operator.

randyjawa 

I had a similar problem, not with Hilary but with someone else who bought something from me. PayPal refunded the buyer his full payment, plus his shipping cost. Two days after he got his refund, the buyer emailed me that the saddle I sent him arrived. He thanked me for the saddle and apologized for getting upset at the time it took for the package to arrive in Europe.

I clued PayPal into the situation, copying them the email, and they did nothing to help me. I tried several emails to PayPal, but to no avail. I contacted the buyer and he would not respond, either. Boy was I screwed.

PayPal kept the money. The post office had a signature for the package being delivered, so I could not claim a lost article through them. The buyer would not respond and/or return the refunded money. PayPal was richer and I was out $126.00 for a NOS blue Rolls saddle...



All that said, it would, at the very least, be worth a try the phone call route.

degan

Wow randy, that story is completely horrible. Theft is all I can think of to describe that situation.

AZORCH

Hilary is a regular on the CR list. You might also attempt to contact him through that venue.

calebroberts

Hi, yes - I thought to try to contact via this venue - but apparently I need to have made 150 posts first. I've read for years but not posted. As of this message, I have 2!

AZORCH

Try contacting Dale, the webmaster, to see if he can put you in touch.

jeirvine 

CR List = Classic Rondezvous forum: https://www.classicrendezvous.com/

Velognome 

Great, more sweet vintage british steel for the rest of us FWIW happy people generaly don't start threads, so of course there would seem to be a " number of problem threads" Judging from the number of frames and parts he sells and the list of complaints, far more, maybe 90%, see to be satisfied.

I had one instance when a package arrived from Hilary and it was missing a part. I emailed him, he responded then sent the part. No problems.

My suggestion is to keep you emails short an to the point, don't cast blame and be receptive.

Road Fan

In the past few months he's used the CR list to announce the posting of large groups of new items on his site. CR has some relatively recent restrictions on how one may post for-sale items, but he seemed to have navigated those shoals capably. I haven't seen a new Hilary post for at least a few weeks.

clubman 

+1 Same here. He's been perfectly trustworthy, albeit a little tardy once or twice.

Michael Angelo 

He sold me a worn out Regina Synro 90s freewheel, emailed him numerous times never got back to me. It was obvious the freewheel was no good, a circus monkey could tell it was bad. He still listed it and sold it to me. He took down the pictures of it instantly. BUYER BEWARE.

Velognome 

If he posted a picture and it was obvious, why did you buy a worn wheel? Not all used parts are mint, some are for parts or display.

Michael Angelo 

It looked used and was for sale in good shape. The freewheel had wipped out bearings. Not useable at all.
He never responded to any of my emails complaing about the condition. He did respond quickly when I wanted to spend money with him.
He has a nice selection of vintage bikes and parts, with terrible customer service.

Velognome 

Pehaps, I guess I have low expections,so I'm pleasantly surprised about most things.

rhm

I don't think we should be taking this discussion in this direction. Would you like to see some photographs of the frame that I bought for 175 GBP plus 85 GBP shipping that, though described as "in sound condition" was bent? The damage was not visible in his photos, but it is pretty obvious in the ones I took after it arrived. When I emailed him that it was bent, he ignored all my emails, for two or three weeks, until I threatened to post the photos here and on CR. Then he responded that "the damage is very slight," as if I was making the whole thing up. I agree the damage was slight, but a bent frame is still a bent frame, whereas I had assumed "sound condition" meant it was not bent. This was a beautiful frame, but it was not worth the cost of shipping.

You, presumably along with the majority of Hilary's customers, have had no trouble. That is as it should be. But it is not relevant to the question at hand.

The problem is that when Hilary makes a mistake, as we all are wont to do, he is very slow to correct it. That has been my experience. That has been Michael Angelo's experience. There are several threads, all closed, in which forum members have told stories that sound very much like those told here. Hilary's response is always the same: ignore the emails.

OP's question was what should he do, to resolve this problem? If you would like to help, please tell us what steps you think he should take, to resolve this problem. If you would really like to help, perhaps you could email Hilary yourself? I could, but he does not respond to emails from me.

Velognome 

^ Rhm, I did, earlier in the thread, post #16; short, accurate, polite emails seem to work for me. Maybe I'm just blessed, stuff usually get resolved.

Regarding direction? Your right. I was just wondering, that if something was so worn and a picture was posted, perhaps his expectations were too high for the value of the item sold? Perhaps mine are too low? When I buy vintage, like a frame; I assume work must be done so it's first stop is to get everything checked over and aligned if necessary. Although dings, dents or cracked tubes or lugs are another story in that the cost for repair is usually steep and such damage ought to be disclosed, likewise a significant bent unless it's in a stay or fork that is easily fixed. (I'm not making any commentary about your particular frame purchase from Hilary ) Hope the OP gets things worked out.

calebroberts

Yes -it's a 45 day limit. Paypal will still take info in the dispute wizard - it's indicated that data is collected in order to aid in other cases. same effectg with this thread perhaps