Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-07-13, 04:26 PM   #1
Italuminium
Cisalpinist
Thread Starter
 
Italuminium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Holland
Bikes: blue ones.
Posts: 5,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yes we Motobecane - Basketcase winter project!

Up to this point, my resto's/build have been pretty straightforward, all of them done on well looked after frames with low miles on them. This time it's different. With the money I got from changing my spare Indonesian Rupiah's to real, I bought myself a veritable basket case of a winter's project. Here it is.


Untitled by ctjr, on Flickr

It's a 1979 or 1978 Motobecane Grand Record, which means DB Vitus tubes in the main triangle and originally a nice compliment of Shimano 600 Arabesque - your nice entry level racer. The OEM bars and stem (Belleri/GB) are quite nice, but the saddle and the seatpost are nasty and low end. However, time has not been kind to this particular example. The previous owner was a fixie hipster with complex eyeglasses and facial piercings. Violating the sanctity of his body with all kinds of metal rods, needles and tubes was mild compared to the travesties inflicted on this poor, innocent French belle. Just look at the horrible top tube scars, bearing witness to a life of abuse, riser bars and cheap Taiwanese fixed wheelsets. he explained he removed the TT cable guides for a "clean look".


Untitled by ctjr, on Flickr

What's more, not a single horror for the classis restorer was spared on me. The seller "lost" the entire Shimano 600 arabesque group, save for the brake levers and the right crank. The headset is not only indexing, but of the horrible type that needs a special wrench. The seatpost is stuck, as is the stem - which is only confounded by the fact that the PO rounded the stem bolt.


Untitled by ctjr, on Flickr

Apparently, the guy ran a little chop shop of horrors, Demon Barber of Fleet Street kind of outfit for converting fixies, without really having a clue what he had on hand, but for a small fee I grabbed this Ideale 90 saddle from his parts bin. I left a nice 3TTT record stem there for another time.


Untitled by ctjr, on Flickr

So, what to do? I'm probably going to rat rod it, put something or another on the rusty spots to prevent the nastiness to spread, and then hop it up with a choice Campagnolo Daytona 9 speed group, replete with some nice handbuild wheels. The ideale saddle is going on there, with a shiny Cinelli cockpit. And yes. Crappy cellphone pics for a crappy bike.

Wish me luck, guys!

Last edited by Italuminium; 01-07-13 at 04:33 PM.
Italuminium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-13, 04:37 PM   #2
rootboy 
Senior Member
 
rootboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Bikes:
Posts: 15,699
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Voila' !

Well posted. Great write up. I don't know though,
That '90', certainly a French sow's ear,
might taint that otherwise silk purse of a frame.
Better send that to me and I'll post a nice tuck n' roll
padded saddle to you.

Good luck. And good hunting. Great post.
rootboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-13, 05:06 PM   #3
auchencrow 
Senior Member
 
auchencrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Detroit
Bikes:
Posts: 10,330
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
Voila' !

Well posted. Great write up. I don't know though,
That '90', certainly a French sow's ear,
might taint that otherwise silk purse of a frame.
Better send that to me and I'll post a nice tuck n' roll
padded saddle to you.

Good luck. And good hunting. Great post.

Don't listen to him!
I have a much better deal for you: I'll trade you this REAL comfortable blue saddle for that "sow's ear" Ideale 90, even up!



(Seriously, you are certainly doing alright to go Motobecaning this winter. -And a Grand Record yet! I'm glad the demon Drew of Fleet street didn't get to that DR hanger!)
__________________
- Auchen
auchencrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-13, 05:49 PM   #4
rootboy 
Senior Member
 
rootboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Bikes:
Posts: 15,699
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
And that blue "saddle" would go so nicely with the Dijon mustard yellow frame.
I think we're on to something here, C and J.

Moto On
rootboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-13, 07:41 PM   #5
Chicago Al 
Senior Member
 
Chicago Al's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chicago, the leafy NW side
Bikes:
Posts: 2,342
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)


An early entry for Post of the Year!
__________________
I never think I have hit hard, unless it rebounds.

- Dr Samuel Johnson
Chicago Al is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-13, 05:00 AM   #6
eschlwc
Banned.
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: on the beach
Bikes: '73 falcon sr, '76 grand record, '84 davidson
Posts: 4,862
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
i like it. at least he left the d.hanger... so how does this frame compare to, say, a '76 grand record 531 frame? ... also, i have that lovely 600 headset on a univega, but i don't remember using a special wrench. hope you salvage it. maybe go cageless and sand the races or something.
eschlwc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-13, 05:41 AM   #7
Italuminium
Cisalpinist
Thread Starter
 
Italuminium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Holland
Bikes: blue ones.
Posts: 5,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks, all! Well, turned out this guy was even a hack at drewing, with the DR hanger and cable stop still on it..

Quote:
Originally Posted by eschlwc View Post
i like it. at least he left the d.hanger... so how does this frame compare to, say, a '76 grand record 531 frame? ... also, i have that lovely 600 headset on a univega, but i don't remember using a special wrench. hope you salvage it. maybe go cageless and sand the races or something.
Compared to 531, vitus 172 is chromo like columbus SL, not manganese steel like 531. Butting is about the same, I believe 0.9/0.6/0.9, I have to measure the seatpost to verify. This version is with hi-ten stays, but there are also motobecanes out there in full 172. Vitus tubing is according to the internet sages comparable in quality to reynolds, if not a little better due to higher qc.

Not sure if I can salvage the headset, I'll try but I will probably install a campagnolo unit anyway. Call
me snobbish.
Italuminium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-13, 06:20 AM   #8
Italuminium
Cisalpinist
Thread Starter
 
Italuminium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Holland
Bikes: blue ones.
Posts: 5,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
Voila' !

Well posted. Great write up. I don't know though,
That '90', certainly a French sow's ear,
might taint that otherwise silk purse of a frame.
Better send that to me and I'll post a nice tuck n' roll
padded saddle to you.

Good luck. And good hunting. Great post.
Ha, yeah who needs a slab of wonky smelly cow skin for riding
anyway, get me some sweet and sweaty vinyl anyday! Seriously though, if the saddle doesn't agree with my bum you're the first one to get the note saddles can be quite tricky to get right, and I'd ratjer have a good rider than a good looker with this "beater" build.
Italuminium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-13, 09:46 AM   #9
rootboy 
Senior Member
 
rootboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Bikes:
Posts: 15,699
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Well, thanks Italuminium. But I imagine that what with the stuck seat post and stem, not to mention that funky headset nut, the saddle will be last of your concerns. For a while anyway. That project looks like it has real potential nevertheless.

"complex eyeglasses and facial piercings" HA HA HA! Sounds like you rescued it just in time.
rootboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-13, 10:48 AM   #10
Pars 
Senior Member
 
Pars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Aurora, IL
Bikes: '73 Raleigh RRA, 1986 Trek 500 commuter
Posts: 2,339
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Yeah, was laughing at your description of the perpetrator as well! I didn't realize Drew had moved to Holland. Or perhaps it was his half-assed brother
Pars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-13, 10:49 AM   #11
obrentharris 
Senior Member
 
obrentharris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Bikes: fewer (n-1)
Posts: 1,134
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Lovely lug work and fork crown. That one will be a head-turner even as a "rat rod."
Brent
obrentharris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-13, 02:31 PM   #12
KvltBryce 
- Bikes Not Bombs -
 
KvltBryce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Desert Hell, AZ
Bikes: 1986 LOOK KG86, 19XX Les Ephgrave?, 1983 Nishiki Royal, 199X Nukeproof MTB, 1974 Raleigh Grand Prix
Posts: 631
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If you don't rat rod it, I think a nice repaint would be in order. Sandblast to get rid of the rust and old paint (if you have access to one, that is) and some nice campy clip on cable guides.
Not talking about too nice of a paint job, but just getting a couple cans of high quality automotive spray paint, and a few coats of clear over new decals. With the right amount of prep work, one can produce a quality paint job with rattlecans.

That's what I would do at least. You'll think of something.
__________________
Thus ever the mind is enlightened by misery. If knowledge be power, it is also pain. - Emerson
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1986 LOOK KG86

1993 Nukeproof MTB
1983 Nishiki Royal
1951 Rudge Pathfinder

KvltBryce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-13, 03:41 PM   #13
Italuminium
Cisalpinist
Thread Starter
 
Italuminium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Holland
Bikes: blue ones.
Posts: 5,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KvltBryce View Post
If you don't rat rod it, I think a nice repaint would be in order. Sandblast to get rid of the rust and old paint (if you have access to one, that is) and some nice campy clip on cable guides.
Not talking about too nice of a paint job, but just getting a couple cans of high quality automotive spray paint, and a few coats of clear over new decals. With the right amount of prep work, one can produce a quality paint job with rattlecans.

That's what I would do at least. You'll think of something.
So, the paint question!

No-goes
Option one, painting it myself with a spray gun, is out of the question. Booth and spraypaint set up is almost impossible to make for me space-wise, and is insanely expensive here in the Netherlands, the raw material and kit could very well buy me a mint frame of much higher quality than this humble Moto.

Next, nr. 2, the rattlecan with full prep. I tried rattle canning a frame once, and even though it cost me a huge amount of time, I still wound up with a ten yarder that chipped way to easy, so that's out too.

Option three, highly unlikely, is getting it painted professionaly, which runs about 250-350 euro's - too broke for that and this frame is just not worth it.

Perhapses

Option four, powder, is about 70-100 euro a frame, which is ok-ish, especially since I got the frame for a small amount.

Option five, touching up, will be interesting, but I don't think I'll be able to get a good match, plus the paint is spotty already and aged and weathered to different colours in different places on the frame.

Option six is by far the most interesting: touch up the rust with random, bright colours. This sounds weird, but hear me out: in the restoring bizz, the problem is always authenticity. The original feel and finish will never be replicated, especially on a budget. What's worse, the restoration effort may even appear fake and tacky! Thus, to make absolutely sure that old and new is not confused, the repairs should be done in a modern and contrasting way. This is fairly common practice in the restoration of old castles and the like, but I've never seen it done on bikes. probably for a reason Maybe I'm overthinking this and I'll just end up with a batty bike.

Option seven is plain and simple: remove the decals and spray the heck out of it with black primer and add some tacky decals for that rat rod flavour.

Now vote for your favourite option!
Italuminium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-13, 03:53 PM   #14
rootboy 
Senior Member
 
rootboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Bikes:
Posts: 15,699
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Option 6. I like early Kandinsky

rootboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-13, 04:35 PM   #15
ftwelder
Senior Member
 
ftwelder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: vermont
Bikes: Many
Posts: 3,092
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Grand Records are great riders. You can't go wrong.
ftwelder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-13, 04:55 PM   #16
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Village, New York City
Bikes: too many
Posts: 27,109
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 227 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
Option 6. I like early Kandinsky

I'll soon be "finishing" a frame with contact paper. And I think sixty-fiver did a papier mache finish on one of his bikes. This is a great opportunity to do something different.
__________________
Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-13, 05:11 PM   #17
rootboy 
Senior Member
 
rootboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Bikes:
Posts: 15,699
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
With that pale mustard/ buff colored paint, how about leopard or cheetah spots? yeah.
rootboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-13, 12:46 PM   #18
Italuminium
Cisalpinist
Thread Starter
 
Italuminium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Holland
Bikes: blue ones.
Posts: 5,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
With that pale mustard/ buff colored paint, how about leopard or cheetah spots? yeah.
yes, that would be perfect! Kim K. would approve.
Italuminium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-13, 01:27 PM   #19
rootboy 
Senior Member
 
rootboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Bikes:
Posts: 15,699
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Whoa. Lookit that .....er ...tail.
rootboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-13, 04:04 PM   #20
Italuminium
Cisalpinist
Thread Starter
 
Italuminium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Holland
Bikes: blue ones.
Posts: 5,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
update:

I took the headset apart to have a closer look at the bearing races, and the good new is the races appear to be just fine. The bad news is I had to cut through the Belleri stem to get there, but no matter, plenty of other stems in the sea. Now, the problem with the wonky head set proably originated with the fork race - the fork is so bad out of spec that the race moves freely about. From wrenching on another bike with a loose race I know that this will virtually eliminate the goldilocks spot in which the headset is just right. the PO evidently screwed it on too tight. Anybody who encountered this problem before and fixed it? I dind't really try that hard to fix it on that other bike, it being my beater...
Italuminium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-13, 12:09 PM   #21
Italuminium
Cisalpinist
Thread Starter
 
Italuminium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Holland
Bikes: blue ones.
Posts: 5,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
small question:
-What's the biggest size of tires I can fit in here? Definitely don't want to order the wrong tyre size for the build. any tips for measuring it?

I want a bit more cushy tires that candle a dabble of gravel for this build.
Italuminium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-13, 12:14 PM   #22
andyfloyd
80's bikes FTW
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 388
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think whats best about this story is you finding an Ideale 90 in his "parts bin". Heck of a find on the seat
andyfloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-13, 02:59 PM   #23
Italuminium
Cisalpinist
Thread Starter
 
Italuminium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Holland
Bikes: blue ones.
Posts: 5,557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyfloyd View Post
I think whats best about this story is you finding an Ideale 90 in his "parts bin". Heck of a find on the seat
Yeah, he had some other goodies in there as well, miserably butchered of drewed frames. Not sure if I'm going to end up with the Ideale on the final build though, it's a bit heavy for the intended use of the bike.
Italuminium is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:43 AM.