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  1. #1
    Senior Member fettsvenska's Avatar
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    Shogun 1000 --> 650B Conversion

    I've rescued this Shogun 1000 and I think that it will make a pretty good 650B conversion. Any thoughts?
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  2. #2
    Rustbelt Rider mkeller234's Avatar
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    Southpaw Boston used a Shogun 1500 for his 650B conversion. Is the 1000 similar to the 1500 in anyway?

    Anyway, he had canti bosses moved (or added?) Lower for the new wheel size. It's one of my all time favorites on the forum. A really well thought out bike.

    Here is his thread:
    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-pic-intensive!

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  3. #3
    Senior Member rowebr's Avatar
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    I've done one 650B conversion, and I used these guidelines for the key measurements (brake reach, bottom bracket height, clearance between chainstays and fork blades, etc.):

    http://www.bikeman.com/bikeman-blogs...sion-guidlines

    Another useful bit of info is that tire height above the rim is about equal to the tire's width. That will help you get an idea of what size tire will fit underneath the fork crown and rear brake bridge, and how much room you'll have for fenders.

    I can't see the brake mounting for that frame. Tektro makes a long-reach brakeset, in both a recessed and a nutted mount version, that is popular for 650B conversions.

    That's all just general advice. I'm sure some folks will weigh in with their advice based on the geometry of that particular frame.

  4. #4
    Senior Member fettsvenska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkeller234 View Post
    Southpaw Boston used a Shogun 1500 for his 650B conversion. Is the 1000 similar to the 1500 in anyway?

    Anyway, he had canti bosses moved (or added?) Lower for the new wheel size. It's one of my all time favorites on the forum. A really well thought out bike.
    I've seen this bicycle and it is certainly a work of art. I believe that Shogun used very similar frames (if not identical) for the 1000, 1500 and 2000 models.

  5. #5
    Senior Member fettsvenska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rowebr View Post
    I've done one 650B conversion, and I used these guidelines for the key measurements (brake reach, bottom bracket height, clearance between chainstays and fork blades, etc.):

    http://www.bikeman.com/bikeman-blogs...sion-guidlines

    Another useful bit of info is that tire height above the rim is about equal to the tire's width. That will help you get an idea of what size tire will fit underneath the fork crown and rear brake bridge, and how much room you'll have for fenders.

    I can't see the brake mounting for that frame. Tektro makes a long-reach brakeset, in both a recessed and a nutted mount version, that is popular for 650B conversions.

    That's all just general advice. I'm sure some folks will weigh in with their advice based on the geometry of that particular frame.
    Thanks for the link...very helpful. This frame does not have cantilever bosses but I think that I will have them installed. The frame is straight and doesn't have any dents or other damage. The paint isn't too bad but it's got enough scratches and blemishes that it is probably worth it to get it powder coated. I figure that as long as I'm getting the frame powder coated I might as well have cantilever bosses installed also.

  6. #6
    Bianchi Goddess Bianchigirll's Avatar
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    Sounds interesting I am doodling in head with a 650b idea involving a 3spd IGH with 8spd cassette to therefore eliminate the FD. The link thoughtly provided by MKeller is very helpful indeed. I thought I was getting a smaller wheel and would need to use maybe a 48, 50T or bigger ring to compensate for the smaller tire.

    The big question is.... would a 650B bike really feel much different than my '89 Equinox cross bike with 700x32 Pesela tires on it?


    Oh sorry to hijack your thread, this is a good looking Shogun but I don't see the 'bad paint'.



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  7. #7
    Senior Member southpawboston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fettsvenska View Post
    I've seen this bicycle and it is certainly a work of art. I believe that Shogun used very similar frames (if not identical) for the 1000, 1500 and 2000 models.
    I'm not too familiar with Shogun's numbering scheme, but generally speaking their road model hierarchy went from 100-1000, with 1000 being the higher end, so figure a higher quality, thinner tube set. Does your 1000 have any identifying tubing decals? Most Shoguns used Tange tubing, and Tange made a whole range of tube sets.

    Shogun's touring models were, I believe, the 1500 and 2000, the 2000 being the higher end. Both used Tange 2 tube sets, which are thicker for touring, but still double butted chromoly. I might imagine the 1000 having Tange 1 tubing, which was thinner. Should be a nice frame!

    Geometry-wise, I have no idea how the 1000 compares with the 1500.

    Keep us posted! Could be a very interesting conversion. And +1 to using bikeman's guide for 650B conversions. All good info.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member southpawboston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
    The big question is.... would a 650B bike really feel much different than my '89 Equinox cross bike with 700x32 Pesela tires on it?
    Bianchigirl, if you've never ridden on 42mm 650B tires, you don't know what you're missing! A 32mm Pasela can't compare.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member fettsvenska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
    Oh sorry to hijack your thread, this is a good looking Shogun but I don't see the 'bad paint'.
    On the whole, the paint really isnt that bad. There are just a few small places where there is some surface rust that needs to be removed, like around the cable guides on the top tube.

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    Quote Originally Posted by southpawboston View Post
    Bianchigirl, if you've never ridden on 42mm 650B tires, you don't know what you're missing! A 32mm Pasela can't compare.
    And there are plenty of 700 x 32mm tires that are far better than Paselas!

  11. #11
    Senior Member fettsvenska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by southpawboston View Post
    I might imagine the 1000 having Tange 1 tubing, which was thinner. Should be a nice frame!
    The decal is mostly worn away but from what is left I believe that this frame is made from Tange 2 tubing.

  12. #12
    Senior Member fettsvenska's Avatar
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    Senior Member jdefran's Avatar
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    Looking real nice!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cache View Post
    And who doesn't have space for a folding bike??

  14. #14
    Senior Member fettsvenska's Avatar
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    Finally got things pretty much finished yesterday afternoon. Now if the snow here in MN would just melt...


  15. #15
    )) <> (( illwafer's Avatar
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    wow. moar pix pls.

  16. #16
    Senior Member southpawboston's Avatar
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    He's got an entire flickr set... just click on his photo and it will bring you to it.

    FatSwede, that is one fantastic looking conversion! You've done a great job! How does it ride?
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  17. #17
    Senior Member fettsvenska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by southpawboston View Post
    He's got an entire flickr set... just click on his photo and it will bring you to it.

    FatSwede, that is one fantastic looking conversion! You've done a great job! How does it ride?
    southpawboston, so far so good but I haven't really been able to ride it more than a couple of miles. We still have quite a bit of snow here in MN. As soon as the snow goes away and things dry up I'll put some more miles on it. I think that I still need to fine tune the derailleurs and brakes just a little bit. I have to admit that I copied some of your ideas after seeing your Shogun conversion. I hope that is OK. I originally bought this Shogun not knowing exactly what to do with it but then I saw yours and thought that it might be really fun to put 650B wheels on it.

    The one thing that I have left is to put front and rear lights on it. I've ordered one of the new Busch and Muller Luxos U lights from my LBS. They are supposed to arrive in a couple of weeks. I would also like to get some Carradice bags to put on it.

  18. #18
    Senior Member southpawboston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fettsvenska View Post
    southpawboston, so far so good but I haven't really been able to ride it more than a couple of miles. We still have quite a bit of snow here in MN. As soon as the snow goes away and things dry up I'll put some more miles on it. I think that I still need to fine tune the derailleurs and brakes just a little bit. I have to admit that I copied some of your ideas after seeing your Shogun conversion. I hope that is OK. I originally bought this Shogun not knowing exactly what to do with it but then I saw yours and thought that it might be really fun to put 650B wheels on it.

    The one thing that I have left is to put front and rear lights on it. I've ordered one of the new Busch and Muller Luxos U lights from my LBS. They are supposed to arrive in a couple of weeks. I would also like to get some Carradice bags to put on it.
    I'm guessing your 1000 might ride better/faster than my 1500, which was their touring model, and kind of slow compared to more racing-type geometries of the same era. I've noticed this after several long rides with it. I believe the 1000 was their racing (or at least "sport touring" or "sportif") model? And it looks like it might also have higher trail/less fork rake, so chances are it will handle rear bags better than front ones. But you'll have to discover this all for yourself. Better to try various bag locations with bags you might already have before buying new ones!
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  19. #19
    Senior Member fettsvenska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by southpawboston View Post
    I'm guessing your 1000 might ride better/faster than my 1500, which was their touring model, and kind of slow compared to more racing-type geometries of the same era. I've noticed this after several long rides with it. I believe the 1000 was their racing (or at least "sport touring" or "sportif") model? And it looks like it might also have higher trail/less fork rake, so chances are it will handle rear bags better than front ones. But you'll have to discover this all for yourself. Better to try various bag locations with bags you might already have before buying new ones!
    That's probably good advice. I don't really intend to put a lot of weight on this bike and any bags I use will probably be more on the small end of the spectrum.

  20. #20
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    I am inspired to do similar with my shogun 1000 - but without frame mods. How does it ride? Iam concerned toe overlap it has will still be there and be unforgivable on a more utilitarian ride. I guess short wheelbase would be a good excuse to buy a low-trail fork.

  21. #21
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    So, after a couple of years, how's it ride?

    Quote Originally Posted by fettsvenska View Post
    southpawboston, so far so good but I haven't really been able to ride it more than a couple of miles.
    I'm about to go down this path, so I'd love to hear how a Shogun 1000 650B conversion works after a few years.

  22. #22
    Senior Member fettsvenska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewvick View Post
    I'm about to go down this path, so I'd love to hear how a Shogun 1000 650B conversion works after a few years.
    I'm sorry I didn't reply earlier. I've moved across the country and it has been several months since I logged in. This is a great bike and I had a lot of fun building it. Everything turned out pretty well. I only really have one problem...which is that I have another 650B conversion that I like better. So whenever I feel like riding 650B wheels I always grab that bike off the hook and ride. So consequently I'm in the process of parting out this one.

    The bike that I like better is an early 90s Trek 930. It was a very easy 650B conversion. I just had to build the wheels and adjust the brake pads up. So anyway...I've sort of had to make a hard choice between the two and since I ride the Trek 930 the most, this one has to go.

    1991 Trek 930 w/ Drop Bars and 650B wheels by FatSwede, on Flickr

  23. #23
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    Amazing you respond now. Only yesterday I first rode my shogun 1000 as a 650b.
    Minimalist conversion: wheelset + tektro 559 long reach calipers.
    First impression is that 36mm 650b seems better than 28mm 700c
    But I have been running this 650b wheelset on a 26" mtb (soma groove), and the soma may be better than the shogun.

  24. #24
    Senior Member fettsvenska's Avatar
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    Your conclusions are similar to mine. For whatever reason, probably just personal preference, I like increasing the wheel size from 26" to 650B better than decreasing the wheel size from 700C to 650B. I've had both of these bikes for awhile now and whenever I feel like riding 650B I almost always choose the converted mountain bike. Maybe the geometry on the Shogun 1000 just doesn't lend itself very well to 650B. I don't really have anything else to compare it to.

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