Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-14-13, 11:56 AM   #1
tjkwood
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Stratford-upon-Avon, UK
Bikes: 1935 Raleigh Sports (road), 1935 Raleigh Sports (town), 1950 Planet Pintail, Raleigh Chopper Mk2
Posts: 185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Pre-1960 Raleigh road bike ID - Golden Arrow? (pic heavy)

I picked this up just this afternoon, and all the seller knew about it was that it belonged to a recently deceased college lecturer. As you can see from the pictures it's very much the old style of road bike with the longer frame, so I assumed it was late 30s or thereabouts. However, the Sturmey hub is dated 1951... so begins the mystery...

Interesting things I've noticed:

1) The front and rear wheels do not match
2) The Sturmey shifter is contemporary with the 1951 rear hub
3) The wheels are 26 x 1 1/4
4) The area around the head tube is painted gold, just like on a Golden Arrow
5) The Lauterwasser handlebars and stem are black, and where the colour has flaked there is no sign of chrome underneath. I know earlier bikes came with black celluloid bars, but the Raleigh catalogues all suggest chromed bars were standard
6) The herons on the chainring have engraved 'eyes'
7) The serial number on the frame is 73735

My guess is that the rear wheel is a later upgrade of sorts, but I was hoping someone might be able to help with an ID. Thanks!











Attached Images
File Type: jpg WP_000077.jpg (53.7 KB, 10 views)

Last edited by tjkwood; 01-14-13 at 12:50 PM.
tjkwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-13, 12:20 PM   #2
Doohickie 
You gonna eat that?
 
Doohickie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Fort Worth, Texas Church of Hopeful Uncertainty
Bikes: 1966 Raleigh DL-1 Tourist, 1973 Schwinn Varsity, 1983 Raleigh Marathon, 1994 Nishiki Sport XRS
Posts: 14,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkwood View Post
1) The front and rear wheels do not match
In what sense? Rims are different styles? Different number of spokes? My '66 DL-1 has 32 spokes in the front and 40 in the rear.

Quote:
5) The Lauterwasser handlebars and stem are black, and where the colour has flaked there is no sign of chrome underneath. I know earlier bikes came with black celluloid bars, but the Raleigh
catalogues all suggest chromed bars were standard
During wartime, many parts were painted rather than chromed. It could be that even if the bike is a 1951, they were still using war era stock.

Quote:
6) The herons on the chainring have engraved 'eyes'
There are eyes on my '66. Not sure if they're stamped or engraved.

Awesome find. Looks great.
__________________
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.



Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
Doohickie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-13, 12:23 PM   #3
20grit
Curmudgeon in Training
 
20grit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Rural Retreat, VA
Bikes: 1974 Gazelle Champion Mondial, 2010 Cannondale Trail SL, 1988 Peugeot Nice, 1992ish Stumpjumper Comp,1990's Schwinn Moab
Posts: 1,934
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Frank has a Golden Arrow. You may be able to compare bikes a bit.
20grit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-13, 12:41 PM   #4
rhm
multimodal commuter
 
rhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
Posts: 16,106
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 235 Post(s)
Whether it's a Golden Arrow or not, that bike is definitely older than 1951. Judging by the lugs and the seat stay attachment, I would assume it is from the 30's or earlier. I'm not sure when chrome became available and fashionable, but even before the war it was not that common.

Whatever it is, it is very cool.
rhm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-13, 12:45 PM   #5
Velognome 
Get off my lawn!
 
Velognome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Garden State
Bikes: 1917 Loomis, 1923 Rudge, 1930 Hercules Renown, 1947 Mclean, 1948 JA Holland, 1955 Hetchins, 1957 Carlton Flyer, 1962 Raleigh Sport, 1978&81 Raleigh Gomp GS', 2010 Raliegh Clubman
Posts: 6,135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Very cool indeed! No white tail on the fender either, a nother nod to an earlier date.
Velognome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-13, 12:50 PM   #6
tjkwood
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Stratford-upon-Avon, UK
Bikes: 1935 Raleigh Sports (road), 1935 Raleigh Sports (town), 1950 Planet Pintail, Raleigh Chopper Mk2
Posts: 185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks guys, just remembered the serial number - 73735... that's certainly not 50s!
tjkwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-13, 12:52 PM   #7
tjkwood
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Stratford-upon-Avon, UK
Bikes: 1935 Raleigh Sports (road), 1935 Raleigh Sports (town), 1950 Planet Pintail, Raleigh Chopper Mk2
Posts: 185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The rims seem to be different yeah - the front one is unmarked and in worse condition, and the rear is marked 'Schurmann Super: Made in Germany'
tjkwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-13, 12:58 PM   #8
tjkwood
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Stratford-upon-Avon, UK
Bikes: 1935 Raleigh Sports (road), 1935 Raleigh Sports (town), 1950 Planet Pintail, Raleigh Chopper Mk2
Posts: 185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Just looked up the serial number and this suggests 1901! Surely that can't be right? I'm still banking on mid-30s
tjkwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-13, 01:30 PM   #9
photogravity 
Hopelessly addicted...
 
photogravity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Central Maryland
Bikes: 1949 Hercules Kestrel, 1950 Norman Rapide, 1970 Schwinn Collegiate, 1972 Peugeot UE-8, 1976 Raleigh Sports, 1977 Raleigh Sports, 1977 Jack Taylor Tandem, 1984 Davidson Tandem, 2010 Bilenky "BQ" 650B Constructeur Tandem, 2011 Linus Mixte
Posts: 5,008
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Great find, indeed. It looks to be in really good condition for its age. Does it have a 3-speed or a 4-speed hub?
__________________
--
Ridding the world of derailleurs, one bicycle at a time.

46 Hercules Roadster, 49 Hercules Kestrel, 50 Norman Rapide, 51 Hercules Lion, 52 Hercules Windsor, 56 Hercules Royal Prince, 61 Fiorelli Tandem, 67 Carlton Super Race (IGH), 70 Schwinn Collegiate (IGH), 71 Hercules, 71 STF Hercules, 72 Peugeot PX-8 (IGH), 76 Raleigh Sports, 77 STF Raleigh Sports, 77 Jack Taylor Tandem, Early-80's Mike Appel SC, 84 Davidson Tandem, Late-80's Alpine, 10 Bilenky "BQ" Signature Tandem
photogravity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-13, 01:42 PM   #10
auchencrow 
Senior Member
 
auchencrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Detroit
Bikes:
Posts: 10,330
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Wow - what a spectacular find tjkwood!

It looks 30's to me, maybe even earlier with that seat lug.
The lauterwaseer bars are right for a GA but I'm not sure about the black.
Does the chain ring bolt-on to the crank arm (as shown below?)

Also - Does it have the "quick release" ears for the fender-mounting wing-nuts located part-way up the seat stays? From what I was told this is an essential feature of the Golden Arrows. It allowed the rider to quickly remove them for competition (and use it to run his errands the rest of the time).



__________________
- Auchen
auchencrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-13, 01:58 PM   #11
tjkwood
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Stratford-upon-Avon, UK
Bikes: 1935 Raleigh Sports (road), 1935 Raleigh Sports (town), 1950 Planet Pintail, Raleigh Chopper Mk2
Posts: 185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by photogravity View Post
Great find, indeed. It looks to be in really good condition for its age. Does it have a 3-speed or a 4-speed hub?
It's got a 3 speed AW, so nothing overly special there!
tjkwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-13, 01:59 PM   #12
tjkwood
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Stratford-upon-Avon, UK
Bikes: 1935 Raleigh Sports (road), 1935 Raleigh Sports (town), 1950 Planet Pintail, Raleigh Chopper Mk2
Posts: 185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by auchencrow View Post
Wow - what a spectacular find tjkwood!

It looks 30's to me, maybe even earlier with that seat lug.
The lauterwaseer bars are right for a GA but I'm not sure about the black.
Does the chain ring bolt-on to the crank arm (as shown below?)

Also - Does it have the "quick release" ears for the fender-mounting wing-nuts located part-way up the seat stays? From what I was told this is an essential feature of the Golden Arrows. It allowed the rider to quickly remove them for competition (and use it to run his errands the rest of the time).



It hasn't got the wngnuts you show... does this reclude it from being a GA? And yeah the crank is the same as the one in the photo. I'm so happy with it, couldn't say no (for a good price too )
tjkwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-13, 02:21 PM   #13
auchencrow 
Senior Member
 
auchencrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Detroit
Bikes:
Posts: 10,330
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkwood View Post
It hasn't got the wngnuts you show... does this reclude it from being a GA? And yeah the crank is the same as the one in the photo. I'm so happy with it, couldn't say no (for a good price too )
You have a fantastic bike there - but I think probably not a GA. The slack angles and Lauterwasser bars were common to many sporting bikes in the 30s.

Kurt from the Headbadge would probably be the last word on what model it actually is.
__________________
- Auchen
auchencrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-13, 02:30 PM   #14
photogravity 
Hopelessly addicted...
 
photogravity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Central Maryland
Bikes: 1949 Hercules Kestrel, 1950 Norman Rapide, 1970 Schwinn Collegiate, 1972 Peugeot UE-8, 1976 Raleigh Sports, 1977 Raleigh Sports, 1977 Jack Taylor Tandem, 1984 Davidson Tandem, 2010 Bilenky "BQ" 650B Constructeur Tandem, 2011 Linus Mixte
Posts: 5,008
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by auchencrow View Post
You have a fantastic bike there - but I think probably not a GA. The slack angles and Lauterwasser bars were common to many sporting bikes in the 30s.

Kurt from the Headbadge would probably be the last word on what model it actually is.
Peter Kohler is also a great resource for Raleigh bicycles of this era.
__________________
--
Ridding the world of derailleurs, one bicycle at a time.

46 Hercules Roadster, 49 Hercules Kestrel, 50 Norman Rapide, 51 Hercules Lion, 52 Hercules Windsor, 56 Hercules Royal Prince, 61 Fiorelli Tandem, 67 Carlton Super Race (IGH), 70 Schwinn Collegiate (IGH), 71 Hercules, 71 STF Hercules, 72 Peugeot PX-8 (IGH), 76 Raleigh Sports, 77 STF Raleigh Sports, 77 Jack Taylor Tandem, Early-80's Mike Appel SC, 84 Davidson Tandem, Late-80's Alpine, 10 Bilenky "BQ" Signature Tandem
photogravity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-13, 02:39 PM   #15
tjkwood
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Stratford-upon-Avon, UK
Bikes: 1935 Raleigh Sports (road), 1935 Raleigh Sports (town), 1950 Planet Pintail, Raleigh Chopper Mk2
Posts: 185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks everyone for the info and help - let's see what Kurt has to say
tjkwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-13, 03:19 PM   #16
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com
Posts: 22,746
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
My serial charts don't go back as far as this bike, but it is most likely a late-1930's Sports with a replacement rear hub and shifter:

http://sheldonbrown.com/retroraleigh...9/pages/11.htm


-Kurt
__________________
cudak888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-13, 03:55 PM   #17
tjkwood
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Stratford-upon-Avon, UK
Bikes: 1935 Raleigh Sports (road), 1935 Raleigh Sports (town), 1950 Planet Pintail, Raleigh Chopper Mk2
Posts: 185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think you're right Kurt, seems to add up - thanks!
tjkwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-13, 04:14 PM   #18
sailorbenjamin 
26 tpi nut.
 
sailorbenjamin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Rhode Island (an obscure suburb of Connecticut)
Bikes: one of each
Posts: 5,698
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
IS the chainring swaged to the crank or bolted on?
__________________
I have spoken.
sailorbenjamin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-13, 04:26 PM   #19
nlerner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 10,244
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 205 Post(s)
Does it have a headbadge or a decal? Oiler port at the BB? Better pics of lugs would help. And does it seem to be repainted, thus no decals?
nlerner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-13, 05:50 PM   #20
tjkwood
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Stratford-upon-Avon, UK
Bikes: 1935 Raleigh Sports (road), 1935 Raleigh Sports (town), 1950 Planet Pintail, Raleigh Chopper Mk2
Posts: 185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
Does it have a headbadge or a decal? Oiler port at the BB? Better pics of lugs would help. And does it seem to be repainted, thus no decals?
The headbadge is just a standard 'The Raleigh' one, and there's an oiler port yeah. And on second inspection you're right, it could have been repainted skilfully
tjkwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-13, 06:33 PM   #21
auchencrow 
Senior Member
 
auchencrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Detroit
Bikes:
Posts: 10,330
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkwood View Post
.... it could have been repainted skilfully
More likely the faded decals were scrubbed off by a PO. At least I doubt that this bike, such as it is in this "as-found" condition, spent much time at CycleArt.
The old lead-based black Raleigh paint is very durable, and if it is original, you'll know for sure once you go over it with some Meguiars' scratch-X - because it will shine like new!
__________________
- Auchen
auchencrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-13, 06:41 PM   #22
tjkwood
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Stratford-upon-Avon, UK
Bikes: 1935 Raleigh Sports (road), 1935 Raleigh Sports (town), 1950 Planet Pintail, Raleigh Chopper Mk2
Posts: 185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by auchencrow View Post
More likely the faded decals were scrubbed off by a PO. At least I doubt that this bike, such as it is in this "as-found" condition, spent much time at CycleArt.
The old lead-based black Raleigh paint is very durable, and if it is original, you'll know for sure once you go over it with some Meguiars' scratch-X - because it will shine like new!
That's a fair point... by the sounds of it the college lecturer was the original owner and left it standing for some years before now. Do you know what the main ingredient in scratch-x is? I'm in the UK and we don't have it over here... thanks so much for all the help

EDIT: just found it online! my bad!

Last edited by tjkwood; 01-14-13 at 06:48 PM.
tjkwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-13, 08:39 PM   #23
brianinc-ville
Senior Member
 
brianinc-ville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Greenville, NC
Bikes:
Posts: 1,084
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by auchencrow View Post
Does it have the "quick release" ears for the fender-mounting wing-nuts located part-way up the seat stays? From what I was told this is an essential feature of the Golden Arrows. It allowed the rider to quickly remove them for competition (and use it to run his errands the rest of the time).
My '51 Clubman has those mounting ears, as well -- I'm not sure they were unique to the Golden Arrow. Anyway, if Kurt says it's a Sports, I'll believe him.
brianinc-ville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-13, 09:01 PM   #24
auchencrow 
Senior Member
 
auchencrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Detroit
Bikes:
Posts: 10,330
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianinc-ville View Post
My '51 Clubman has those mounting ears, as well -- I'm not sure they were unique to the Golden Arrow. Anyway, if Kurt says it's a Sports, I'll believe him.
They are not unique* to the GA, but AFAIK, it can't be a Golden Arrow without them.

(* they were also on the Silver Record and RRA at least)
__________________
- Auchen
auchencrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-13, 02:00 AM   #25
ftwelder
Senior Member
 
ftwelder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: vermont
Bikes: Many
Posts: 3,092
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by auchencrow View Post
They are not unique* to the GA, but AFAIK, it can't be a Golden Arrow without them.

(* they were also on the Silver Record and RRA at least)
Mine is for sure a Golden Arrow and does not have QR's for the fenders or bag supports. I think the OP's is a war-era golden arrow. The GA and the roadsters were still using the cast lugs found on the OP's bike but the sports models had continental style seat stays. **** "Chrome plating wasn't used prior to '35 (THIS IS WRONG)**** and the head-clip was gone by the early 40's. It also has bolt-on pump pegs like mine. The Golden Arrow was not really much of a sports model. It was more of a prestige model reflecting style trends, not racing. Things like cast lugs, primitive geometry and non-removable chain ring.

I am going to say early 40's Golden arrow. my SN is 59928 and is about 1936.

I can't tell much from the OP's photos. Here is a link to my photos.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/5244889...7624518788173/


IMG_3827 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr

Here is a GA said to be close to the same vintage as mine with GA transfers in tact but much more like a sports model. May be mine is older? IDK

Last edited by ftwelder; 01-16-13 at 04:59 AM.
ftwelder is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:58 PM.