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  1. #1
    Senior Member canyoneagle's Avatar
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    Ciocc "Designer 84" retro-mod project

    So, given the news that my old Tommasini will not be coming home, after all, I decided to move forward on satiating my desire to have a road bike in my stable once again.
    I've been poring over CL search engines and Ebay for the past 3-4 weeks just to see what is out there in my desired size (61-62 ST and 55-56 TT). A few possibilities have popped up, but have been priced too high for my intentions and budget.
    Thanks to a head's up from BF member Highgear, I bid (and won) on a decent Ciocc "Designer '84" frame set in SLX and, more importantly, my size. 61 ST c-c and 56 TT c-c. Just about perfect.

    And so begins my road bike project. The frame is in used but good condition. I plan to keep it as is - just clean it up, protect it/touch it up, and build it.
    My goal is to have a solid bike for my frequent road rides to come, perhaps for commuting when I'm in the mood for fast -n- light. So, I do not plan to do a "restoration" or period correct build. If this were a pre-1980 Pelizzoli era frame, then it would be different. I'm thinking 9 or 10 speed Campy. The smoked chrome is nice because I think I can go either way - polished alloy or black - and it would still look nice.

    I lack the tools to re-space the frame, and am not in the mood to risk messing it up, so I've contacted a local frame builder so I can work with him to re-space and verify alignment throughout. I needed an excuse to meet him, any way.

    So, here are the Ebay pics. I'll snap some more when it arrives, and will be contemplating build options in the mean time. More to come.



    $(KGrHqJ,!lIFCe0G6WneBQ4RQn,dUg~~60_57.jpg$(KGrHqN,!hkFCdRsDI5VBQ4RQnLFc!~~60_57.jpg$(KGrHqN,!lMFCS0VzQ+dBQ4RQmbIiQ~~60_57.jpg$(KGrHqN,!qsFC)6q0yvbBQ4RQmMlp!~~60_57.jpg$(KGrHqN,!rkFCW3L0ScIBQ4RQmyuC!~~60_57.jpg$(KGrHqR,!h!FC1yVqwHRBQ4RQmHyuw~~60_57.jpg$(KGrHqR,!lYFDOe9DMr5BQ4RQmcueQ~~60_57.jpg$(KGrHqV,!icFDHbcb!vMBQ4RQm8H2!~~60_57.jpg$(KGrHqV,!pUFCjwRV38pBQ4RQnZTn!~~60_57.jpg$T2eC16d,!zcE9s4g3hi,BQ4RQmmyq!~~60_57.jpg
    Last edited by canyoneagle; 01-15-13 at 11:55 AM.
    Currently one bike: Singular Gryphon do-it all bike with Nuvinci N360
    Coming soon (winter project) Ciocc Designer '84 mod build
    Temporary (on loan from a buddy): 1985 Raleigh Prestige

  2. #2
    Senior Member ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
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    That's pretty sweet, man! Modern Campaganolo sounds perfect.

    I think TimmyT also has a Designer '84.
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  3. #3
    Bianchi Goddess Bianchigirll's Avatar
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    Nice looking frame. that is too bad about your Tommasini, but perhaps it was just not to be.

    I should really try and aquire one of these and see what the hubbub is all about.
    Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto (2), '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '88 Trofeo, '86 Volpe, '89 Axis, '79 Mixte SOLD, '99 Mega Pro XL Ti, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

    Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '86 Bertoni (sold), '09 Motobecane SS, '98 Hetchins M.O., '09 K2 Mainframe, '89 Trek 2000, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape

  4. #4
    Get off my lawn! Velognome's Avatar
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    I lack the tools to re-space the frame, and am not in the mood to risk messing it up, so I've contacted a local frame builder so I can work with him to re-space and verify alignment throughout. I needed an excuse to meet him, any way.
    Very nice project!! I wouldn't go at it with a 2x4 and chair ala Sheldon either.

    They're expertise is well worth it. I was chatting with our local shop owner who builds and repairs frames. A customer came in wanting the rear cold set. Out comes a straight edge, calipers and dropout alignment tool . He measured, clamped the brake bridge and tugged at the stays a few times, measured again and aligned the dropouts. Seemed like it took only seconds but it must have been all of about 5 minutes. He handed the frame back to the customer who was standing there with his mouth open. "There ya go"

  5. #5
    Steel Member fiataccompli's Avatar
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    Going from 126 to 130, I'm not sure if you really need to respace a frame (I've seen it done & not done, both straight, both without long-term issues, etc. etc.), but I could also say the 2x4/chair method when used carefully & with digital calipers then followed with alignment checking/correcting is not difficult...but like all mechanical repairs NOT something to endeavor if it freaks you out to think of it.

    nice Ciocc, btw

  6. #6
    Senior Member canyoneagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velognome View Post
    Very nice project!! I wouldn't go at it with a 2x4 and chair ala Sheldon either.

    They're expertise is well worth it. I was chatting with our local shop owner who builds and repairs frames. A customer came in wanting the rear cold set. Out comes a straight edge, calipers and dropout alignment tool . He measured, clamped the brake bridge and tugged at the stays a few times, measured again and aligned the dropouts. Seemed like it took only seconds but it must have been all of about 5 minutes. He handed the frame back to the customer who was standing there with his mouth open. "There ya go"


    I had given some thought to fabricating my own dropout alignment tools with all-thread and such, and gingerly using the Sheldon method. Like you, I just don't want to mess with it on a nice frame. Plus, it is a great opportunity for me to meet our local frame builder.

    I've been re-learning the proper pronunciation, "cheewrch", after having said "chee-owch" for many years.

    I came across this old video while on a Youtube marathon. Looks like the post-Pelizzoli era, when things were higher production. I read somewhere that at their peak, Ciocc was producing 4,000 frames per year. This video looks like it is from the height of that era. Definitely a departure from the image of the old master with a torch, flux and solder, but still interesting to watch. The soundtrack is hard to tolerate (80's remakes of old classics), so I listened to my own music.





    Pronunciation from the man himself: (at 12 seconds in to the video)
    Last edited by canyoneagle; 01-15-13 at 02:21 PM.
    Currently one bike: Singular Gryphon do-it all bike with Nuvinci N360
    Coming soon (winter project) Ciocc Designer '84 mod build
    Temporary (on loan from a buddy): 1985 Raleigh Prestige

  7. #7
    Senior Member canyoneagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiataccompli View Post
    Going from 126 to 130, I'm not sure if you really need to respace a frame (I've seen it done & not done, both straight, both without long-term issues, etc. etc.), but I could also say the 2x4/chair method when used carefully & with digital calipers then followed with alignment checking/correcting is not difficult...but like all mechanical repairs NOT something to endeavor if it freaks you out to think of it.

    nice Ciocc, btw
    Agreed on all points.
    I re-spaced my old Super Course many years ago after simply squeezing 130mm wheels in for a few years, which worked fine. I used the 2x4 method and used a crescent wrench to align the dropouts. It was very easy. I'd like to throw it on a frame table this time around and observe the process being done "properly". Sort of like an educational field trip
    Currently one bike: Singular Gryphon do-it all bike with Nuvinci N360
    Coming soon (winter project) Ciocc Designer '84 mod build
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  8. #8
    Senior Member triumph.1's Avatar
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    I wondered who got that I watched it and was going to bid in the last few seconds but decided I wanted to wait for Madison. Nice frame enjoy.
    Looking for an early 80's Bianchi Super Legerra 59-60cm.

  9. #9
    Senior Member canyoneagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph.1 View Post
    I wondered who got that I watched it and was going to bid in the last few seconds but decided I wanted to wait for Madison. Nice frame enjoy.
    I was surprised that I got it uncontested. I watched during the last minute for "snipe" bids, and nothing. Needless to say, I was happy.

    Thanks for not bidding!
    Currently one bike: Singular Gryphon do-it all bike with Nuvinci N360
    Coming soon (winter project) Ciocc Designer '84 mod build
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  10. #10
    Senior Member cyclotoine's Avatar
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    The 2x4 method is fine. with some string and calipers, digital are overkill even. Have the DO alignment tool is a must however. The hanger can be aligned by eye and tweaked after the derailleur is mounted. I have done it more times than I can count. The frame alignment gauge is better than the string however and I usually had one of those at my disposal.

    Edit: I hope when you get it there is no surprise about the top tube. a 56cm top tube on an italian of that vintage with that seat tube is not super common. I would have guessed 58.
    1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear

  11. #11
    Senior Member canyoneagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclotoine View Post
    I hope when you get it there is no surprise about the top tube. a 56cm top tube on an italian of that vintage with that seat tube is not super common. I would have guessed 58.
    Same here. I confirmed the dimensions with the seller, and he assured me that they were correct. You can count on the fact that the TT will be the first thing I measure when I get the frame. 58-59 would be more typical, as you say, and the short TT was the catalyst for my bid. I'll be pretty upset if it turns out to be longer than 56.
    Currently one bike: Singular Gryphon do-it all bike with Nuvinci N360
    Coming soon (winter project) Ciocc Designer '84 mod build
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  12. #12
    Fast+Bulbous thinktubes's Avatar
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    Nice pickup!!! I was watching that one just out of curiousity. You're in for a real treat!!!!!!

    I have a 57 ctc, which has a 56 ctc TT.

    I logged over 1700 miles on mine last year and it was a total blast. Mid-season, I updated to a Shimano Hollowtech crank, which really improved the energy transfer in the BB. Should be a great canidate for modern components. SLX really rides like a dream.


  13. #13
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    Fun Footage. OSHA would have that place shut down faster than Lance Armstrong. Grinding without safety glasses or guard. Brazing with ordinary sunglasses. I didnt even wait for the painting footage.

  14. #14
    Senior Member canyoneagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulf View Post
    Fun Footage. OSHA would have that place shut down faster than Lance Armstrong. Grinding without safety glasses or guard. Brazing with ordinary sunglasses. I didnt even wait for the painting footage.
    LOL I thought the same thing. And not surprisingly, the guy did not wear any form of respirator while priming.


    Nice looking bike, Thinktubes.
    I've only owned/ridden one other SLX frame (Guerciotti) and it is/was among my favorites.
    Currently one bike: Singular Gryphon do-it all bike with Nuvinci N360
    Coming soon (winter project) Ciocc Designer '84 mod build
    Temporary (on loan from a buddy): 1985 Raleigh Prestige

  15. #15
    Steel Member fiataccompli's Avatar
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    FWIW, I have an SLX Bertoni frame that I've built up with Campy Record 10 (lucky enough...?... to have found an early group with only a hint of carbon fiber in it). It's a very nice ride, but I would not at all relegate it to commuting, short rides, etc...it is capable of being a quite fast ride logging 75-100 miles at a time keeping ample pace with the carbon fiber crowd. This is probably my favorite recipe for a fast, fun road bike in all cases up to all-out racing where the last 25 years of technical advancements probably really do give you a useful edge.

  16. #16
    Senior Member canyoneagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiataccompli View Post
    FWIW, I have an SLX Bertoni frame that I've built up with Campy Record 10 (lucky enough...?... to have found an early group with only a hint of carbon fiber in it). It's a very nice ride, but I would not at all relegate it to commuting, short rides, etc...it is capable of being a quite fast ride logging 75-100 miles at a time keeping ample pace with the carbon fiber crowd. This is probably my favorite recipe for a fast, fun road bike in all cases up to all-out racing where the last 25 years of technical advancements probably really do give you a useful edge.
    I have a dedicated commuter/transportation bike that would see the brunt of commuting duty. When I've also had road bikes in the stable, I would typically enjoy riding them on sunny Fridays for a fun break from the routine.
    My main use will be for long sunny day rides, group rides, centuries, and Gran Fondos. It should be alot of fun.
    Currently one bike: Singular Gryphon do-it all bike with Nuvinci N360
    Coming soon (winter project) Ciocc Designer '84 mod build
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  17. #17
    junior ericzamora's Avatar
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    beautiful bike! I think a Ciocc ranks up there with me for a classic dream-bike acquisition.

    eric
    fresno, ca.

  18. #18
    Keener splendor TimmyT's Avatar
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    Enjoy! These are nice frames. I picked one up last year with an SR group. I think mine is a 60cm st, and it's about as small as I can go comfortably. I've changed a few things since this photo was taken (like the handlebars, bottle cages, saddle, levers, etc.), but you get the idea. They are really stable frames with really tight spacing. Frankly, I think that you should get it respaced with the proper tools if you are going to 130mm. The rear wheel spacing to the seat tube is tight, tight, tight.

    Mark Bulgier has the original catalog scans for the Ciocc Designer '84 on his website.

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Quote Originally Posted by Craigslist View Post
    Note to you BLOWHARD MORONS out there: The fork is not bent. Most PEUGEOTS of the '70s forks DID NOT line up with the head tube angle. This is normal. The last pic is from the 1972 Dutch catalog showing this EXACT MODEL in diagram. Keep your comments to yourself......
    Quote Originally Posted by lostarchitect
    Retaining walls are a myth the man perpetuates to keep us down!

  19. #19
    Senior Member canyoneagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimmyT View Post
    Enjoy! These are nice frames. I picked one up last year with an SR group. I think mine is a 60cm st, and it's about as small as I can go comfortably. I've changed a few things since this photo was taken (like the handlebars, bottle cages, saddle, levers, etc.), but you get the idea. They are really stable frames with really tight spacing. Frankly, I think that you should get it respaced with the proper tools if you are going to 130mm. The rear wheel spacing to the seat tube is tight, tight, tight.

    Mark Bulgier has the original catalog scans for the Ciocc Designer '84 on his website.
    Nice bike.
    It has been a while since I've poked into the archives at bulgier.net. Time for another visit.

    BTW what length crank is on there? 175? How is toe overlap with the front wheel?
    Last edited by canyoneagle; 01-15-13 at 05:51 PM.
    Currently one bike: Singular Gryphon do-it all bike with Nuvinci N360
    Coming soon (winter project) Ciocc Designer '84 mod build
    Temporary (on loan from a buddy): 1985 Raleigh Prestige

  20. #20
    "Chooch" ciocc_cat's Avatar
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    Back-in-the-day, I re-spaced an Austro-Daimler Reynolds 531 Inter 10 frame from 5-speed to 6-speed simply by spreading the rear triangle by hand. It worked just fine. In later years I considered myself lucky that it turned out alright.

    Yours is a BEAUTIFUL Ciocc, but some might consider my opinion biased. I can't imagine why . . .
    "A bicycle built by a frame builder has the soul of the builder. A mass produced frame does not have soul. It doesn't know anyone." - Giovanni "Ciocc" Pelizzoli.
    “Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” - Benjamin Franklin
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]My Ciocc San Cistobal
    Visit my website at http://ciocc-cat.angelfire.com/

  21. #21
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    Subscribed and excitited.I can't get enough of campy 10 on lugged steel.

  22. #22
    Senior Member canyoneagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciocc_cat View Post
    but some might consider my opinion biased. I can't imagine why . . .
    Currently one bike: Singular Gryphon do-it all bike with Nuvinci N360
    Coming soon (winter project) Ciocc Designer '84 mod build
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  23. #23
    Senior Member canyoneagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdgenbird View Post
    Subscribed and excitited.I can't get enough of campy 10 on lugged steel.
    There's something intrinsically appealing about it, isn't there?
    I am watching yours as well as other C&V - ish builds that are all happening during these cold months.
    Currently one bike: Singular Gryphon do-it all bike with Nuvinci N360
    Coming soon (winter project) Ciocc Designer '84 mod build
    Temporary (on loan from a buddy): 1985 Raleigh Prestige

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by canyoneagle View Post
    There's something intrinsically appealing about it, isn't there?
    I am watching yours as well as other C&V - ish builds that are all happening during these cold months.
    People that have not experienced it are truly missing something.

  25. #25
    Keener splendor TimmyT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canyoneagle View Post
    Nice bike.
    It has been a while since I've poked into the archives at bulgier.net. Time for another visit.

    BTW what length crank is on there? 175? How is toe overlap with the front wheel?
    Thanks, I like it, too, but I really can't take credit for the build. The PO worked in a Texas bike shop as an 18 year old racer. It's the kind of bike that doesn't rattle and makes no noise. When he sold it to me last year, he gave me a whole bunch of spare parts, including a seemingly unused set of SR brake levers with original hoods.

    I think it's a 170. Toe overlap is an issue, but not as much my touring or cyclocross bikes with fenders. Honestly, I don't notice it unless I go from a dead stop and turn the wheel as I gain speed. If you're going to run raceblade fenders or something like that (see rhm's Basso thread for what he did), then toe overlap is going to be an issue.

    The tire is tight to the frame in the front, too. This is the only one in my fleet that I have reached down to shift and gotten a piece of the tire at speed. You won't have that problem with ergopower.

    In that photo, the bike has 28s on it, and that is the largest tire the frame can take. Right now, I have Conti GP4000s 25s on it. The SR single pivots give a few mm extra clearance, so if you put a set of dual pivots on, you may lose the option for 28s entirely.
    Last edited by TimmyT; 01-16-13 at 07:09 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Craigslist View Post
    Note to you BLOWHARD MORONS out there: The fork is not bent. Most PEUGEOTS of the '70s forks DID NOT line up with the head tube angle. This is normal. The last pic is from the 1972 Dutch catalog showing this EXACT MODEL in diagram. Keep your comments to yourself......
    Quote Originally Posted by lostarchitect
    Retaining walls are a myth the man perpetuates to keep us down!

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