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  1. #1
    MIKE is my name! puchfinnland's Avatar
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    hans lutz, , puch mistral ultima,2x Austro Daimler Smoked chrome Ultima,Austro Daimler Mixte,Austro Daimler 531 mixte, flying arrow,F Moser,
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    Old smoked chrome...to paint or not to paint....

    I picked up more or less my grail frame in December from forumite.(they may want to say who they are)
    I will start with explaining this.

    My grail bike is
    82-84 puch mistral Ultima in profigrun metallic .
    This bike would have Campagnolo S.R. TI group set, and Reynolds 531pro tubing.

    I have been looking for several years and they just do not come around.
    They were only sold in Europe, and only in a few countries.
    300 units per year is the legend, and it is believable.

    Now Puch was sold as Austro Daimler in USA, same bike, just different decals, colors, and earlier AD panto on the
    Seat stays and fork crown.
    By 1982 the Panto work said PUCH just like their Austrian counterparts, only the decals and finish was different.
    Ok this is what I got...



    Do to this bloody Mac it takes a bit to get pics, all of them are here
    http://s51.beta.photobucket.com/user...%20Ultima%20SL
    My name is Michael, and I am a recovering bike addict, It has been 11 months since I purchased a bicycle for myself..
    (Im bound to fall off the wagon again, its just a matter of time)
    Lord help me!

    "Some cream crackers, a glue *** and a little imagination can turn any domestic cat into a fearsome Stegosaurus."

  2. #2
    MIKE is my name! puchfinnland's Avatar
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    Now it's the same frame as a puch Ultima, the serial numbers are even corresponding,
    it's got correct panto....
    if it was green then nobody could say its not what it is.

    the smoked chrome is fading, and was too thin in my eyes, different colors near the brass work and , where the 531 decal was is a shadow,
    if I buy a new AD decal set it MUST be exactly the same, or it won't match up on the sunburn,

    This is some motivation on how things could turn out..

    i have never seen a AD green Ultima and it looks great!
    My name is Michael, and I am a recovering bike addict, It has been 11 months since I purchased a bicycle for myself..
    (Im bound to fall off the wagon again, its just a matter of time)
    Lord help me!

    "Some cream crackers, a glue *** and a little imagination can turn any domestic cat into a fearsome Stegosaurus."

  3. #3
    Senior Member canyoneagle's Avatar
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    First of all, congratulations on finding your grail! It is a stunning frame.
    Personally, I think I'd just clean it up.

    But...... I can see the draw to re-finish it (grail and all).

    If you did anything to re-finish it, I'd have it totally re-done with smoked chrome again.
    Currently one bike: Singular Gryphon do-it all bike with Nuvinci N360
    Coming soon (winter project) Ciocc Designer '84 mod build
    Temporary (on loan from a buddy): 1985 Raleigh Prestige

  4. #4
    MIKE is my name! puchfinnland's Avatar
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    This is the PUCH paint job....

    My name is Michael, and I am a recovering bike addict, It has been 11 months since I purchased a bicycle for myself..
    (Im bound to fall off the wagon again, its just a matter of time)
    Lord help me!

    "Some cream crackers, a glue *** and a little imagination can turn any domestic cat into a fearsome Stegosaurus."

  5. #5
    MIKE is my name! puchfinnland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canyoneagle View Post
    First of all, congratulations on finding your grail! It is a stunning frame.
    Personally, I think I'd just clean it up.

    But...... I can see the draw to re-finish it (grail and all).

    If you did anything to re-finish it, I'd have it totally re-done with smoked chrome again.

    Unfortunately there are other issues...

    It won't clean up, the chrome was too thin at the bb, on all of their bikes, and many including mine get rusty there .
    its a 54 and I ride a 58!!!!!

    The smoked chrome versions are I have heard more rare then PUCH ULTIMAS,
    who knows how many frame sets they really sold???.
    it may be worth more in the ad clothing.
    My name is Michael, and I am a recovering bike addict, It has been 11 months since I purchased a bicycle for myself..
    (Im bound to fall off the wagon again, its just a matter of time)
    Lord help me!

    "Some cream crackers, a glue *** and a little imagination can turn any domestic cat into a fearsome Stegosaurus."

  6. #6
    Banana-tastic! JesusBananas's Avatar
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    smoked chrome
    NOT TO PAINT!!

    . . . was there a question?
    Quote Originally Posted by striknein View Post
    The banana has spoken.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    "This rides nearly as nicely as your mom."

  7. #7
    Senior Member Chombi's Avatar
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    Oh please do not paint over the smoked chrome!
    Why even change it to a full Puch?? AD/Puch is pretty awesome too IMO.....
    AD smoked chrome bike is also my grail bike....been looking for it for years with no luck....and that 54 size would work perfect for me.
    If you decide to keep looking for the right size Puch instead, please shoot me a PM!
    Lucky you, the closest I ever got to my grail AD is this Jersey I bought back in the 80's

    .....dreaming that eventually I graduate from my Peugeot and get to own one......

    BTW, isn't that Connie Carpenter racing in that brochure pic??

    Chombi
    Last edited by Chombi; 01-16-13 at 12:33 AM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Captain Blight's Avatar
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    Putting paint on that would be a criminal act, ATMO.

    Patina only happens once.
    '71 Raleigh Super Course ("Loose Change")
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Cache's Avatar
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    If it were your size, I'd say open your wallet and go to town. Since it isn't, I'd love to see Chombi's vision and compare it to my own. Pass it along and wait until your propper 'grail' shows up (ie: in your size). I recently missed out on a steal of a deal for an AD with 1st gen black dura ace from head to toe. Looked to be in remarkable shape and I wanted everything but the F/F (was too small for me), so hopefully the new owner appreciates it... sorry to threadjack

  10. #10
    Senior Member spacemanz's Avatar
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    If you really love something, set it free. I can understand that frustration, kinda. As far as the paint, maybe a clear-coat would be more appropriate, to preserve the chrome, even if it is imperfect. (?)

  11. #11
    Chainstay Brake Mafia
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    To paint the bike properly you're going to need to scuff up that chrome to get the paint to stick. otherwise you'll end up with the paint flaking off. I did this with my fingernail



    I know what you mean about the "sunburn" and how you would have to replace the decals exactly




    the "smoked chrome" on my bike is so faded it looks more like bronze than black, but I think it looks awesome. "Patina" without corrosion.




    I would discourage you from painting the bike, especially if only 300 per year were made... but if it's your grail bike, do what u gotta do to make it exactly how you want it i guess
    Last edited by frantik; 01-16-13 at 06:27 AM.
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  12. #12
    Ride Fast and Ride Safe! gioscinelli's Avatar
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    Don't paint! There's a chemical available to remove surface rust called "Rust Remover" at your nearest Ace Hardware or Michaels Hobby. Once most of the rust is gone get a small nail polish clear coat jar and dab with a small foam like sponge over the areas where the rust was. I once had a AD Puch with smoke chrome finish, here's a picture, but sold the bike to someone in Texas through CL.



    Gios Pro Cinelli SC Colnago C50

  13. #13
    one life on two wheels cobrabyte's Avatar
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    I'd build it up and ride it first...then...if it fit, paint it that green color. Call me crazy, but I'm not crazy about chrome frames.

  14. #14
    Hopelessly addicted... photogravity's Avatar
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    I've seen the frameset in person. I still say to leave it as is. That frame is a beauty and painting it would be a travesty.
    --
    Ridding the world of derailleurs, one bicycle at a time.

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  15. #15
    Hopelessly addicted... photogravity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobrabyte View Post
    I'd build it up and ride it first...then...if it fit, paint it that green color. Call me crazy, but I'm not crazy about chrome frames.
    I'm not overly fond of chrome either, but this one is very appealing with the smoke finish... I guess it is actually cromovelato but I'm not sure.
    --
    Ridding the world of derailleurs, one bicycle at a time.

    46 Hercules Roadster, 49 Hercules Kestrel, 50 Norman Rapide, 51 Hercules Lion, 52 Hercules Windsor, 56 Hercules Royal Prince, 61 Fiorelli Tandem, 67 Carlton Super Race (IGH), 70 Schwinn Collegiate (IGH), 71 Hercules, 71 STF Hercules, 72 Peugeot PX-8 (IGH), 76 Raleigh Sports, 77 STF Raleigh Sports, 77 Jack Taylor Tandem, Early-80's Mike Appel SC, 84 Davidson Tandem, Late-80's Alpine, 10 Bilenky "BQ" Signature Tandem

  16. #16
    Chainstay Brake Mafia
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobrabyte View Post
    Call me crazy, but I'm not crazy about chrome frames.
    I wasn't either, until i owned one
    1986 Diamondback Apex ~ 1988 Diamondback Ascent EX ~ 1989 Jamis Dakar ~ 1989 Specialized Stumpjumper Comp
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  17. #17
    Senior Member rootboy's Avatar
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    I'd say sell it Mike, if it doesn't fit you.

  18. #18
    Chainstay Brake Mafia
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    Quote Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
    I'd say sell it Mike, if it doesn't fit you.
    yeah i just saw it's too small.. it may be a grail bike, but it's not YOUR grail bike, mike. it's the wrong size and wrong color.
    1986 Diamondback Apex ~ 1988 Diamondback Ascent EX ~ 1989 Jamis Dakar ~ 1989 Specialized Stumpjumper Comp
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  19. #19
    Get off my lawn! Velognome's Avatar
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    Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
    don't paint it!

  20. #20
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    I wouldn't paint over it, the paint will chip big time if you dont really sand the chrome really good to etch it so the paint sticks to it.

  21. #21
    Senior Member embankmentlb's Avatar
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    Cool find on the AD! I have that same AD catalog around here someplace. I was just getting into cycling at that time, what great memories! Have fun with that bike!

  22. #22
    Curmudgeon in Training 20grit's Avatar
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    That green is fugly. Sorry, but it is. If I were going to paint that bike at all, I'd attempt some sort of cromovelato.

    But since that's probably not a good idea either, leave it.

  23. #23
    Senior Member spacemanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frantik View Post
    I wasn't either, until i owned one
    Same here, they do grow on you. If anyone else needs another example of paint flaking off of chrome, or more precisely, the sad results of an attempted repair, just look for pics of my Frejus. It was like that when I got it, but that's probably "why" I got it, for a decent price.

  24. #24
    Senior Member randyjawa's Avatar
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    Since they are so rare, why would you consider painting it? True, you might enjoy the experience, but it will cost you money to do so, and you will, most likely, not recover the cost to paint. Just an opinion.

    I am not trying to be a smart butt, but I am a strong believer in not repainting a bicycle. If we continue to adopt the "looks a little rough and I'm going to spruce it up" attitude, sooner or later, there will be no original paint/art bikes left. And, to make things worse, how many of us have already, or will in the future, purchase something, thinking it to be a something only to find out that it is, actually a repainted something else?

    I see this more and more frequently, these days, and that supports my arguments in To Paint of Not To Paint.

    Of course, it is your bike, Mike, but I do hope you think it through.
    Learn how to find, restore and maintain vintage road bicycles at... MY "TEN SPEEDS"

  25. #25
    Senior Member ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20grit View Post
    That green is fugly.
    +1
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