RubberLegs

Working on a bit of a "Neglected" 86 TREK 400T, got around the the BB....it is GONERS. Just cannot, in good conscience, just repack....SO...guess it is a New Sealed unit, $15-25 or TRY to find a spindle....It seems to be quite ridiculous what good spindles run these days... ANY sources for 68x125s out there? I guess the sealed unit will have to do, NOT paying a king's ransom, not like the TREK is a valuable C&V that MUST keep original equipment. So, what IS the spindle in the middle of a sealed unit? That much cheaper than JUST a NORMAL spindle? I don't get it.

3alarmer 

Depends on the sealed unit..........they come in different bearing flavors,
so the spindle race (if there is one) has to match the bearings used.

RubberLegs

A Phil Woods BB is worth more that an 86 TREK 400 is worth! So I guess they just get sealed bearing units, slap a spindle in, and it is MUCH cheaper than carefully machining cups and races on a spindle....The cheap Shimano ones with plastic kind of bother me, but for a Quick and Cheap rebuild, I guess that is the way to go?

Bianchigirll 

I agree with 3Alarmer. You might try looking at some of your LBS and see if they have a spindle or even a whole BB. The high price of
cup and cone' spindle is normally reflected in the quality of the part however lately it seem that anything old is worth its weight in gold, thanks Mike and Frank!

the spindle in a lowerend cartridge unilt like a shipmano UN51 will be similar in quality to what you have now. The main different will be that the bearing are sealed and will not need routine service, when it fails it fails.

More expensive units like 3alarmer posted are simple better quality than your average quality shipmano cartridge BB.

When you say 'sealed bottombracket' most of here still think along the lines of a system like Klien, Merlin, fat Chance used in the '80s where the bearings are pressed into the shell and then the axle is installed and held by a clip of some sort.

A cartridge is just that a a complete bottom bracket like a shimano or Phil although they do use sealed bearings.

There are also sealed BBs which just use a rubber gromet around the spindle.

MisterK

I bought cups with caged bearings for 10bux...the spindle...well mine is still good so couldn't tell you what one should go for.

Bill Kapaun

How many $ do you consider "a kings ransom".
Without some guidelines..............

ThermionicScott 

Who makes good spindles these days? Tange still lists hi-tensile spindles in their online catalog, but the only ones I can find for sale are the "Pyramid" ones that don't seem to be perfectly straight.

JReade

I know how to repack cup and cone, and in fact most of my bikes are rocking the cup and cone BB, however, the sealed unit is cheap enough to make me start heading that way. I understand that they have a limited lifespan, and renewed investment, but they take no time to remove and install. Sure, cup/cone is easy too, but if you have a situation like this one, is it really that easy? In the time it took to take the pictures, post online/look for a new spindle, you could have gotten a sealed unit and installed it from the LBS.

I understand the desire to not buy "throw away" components like that, but there's a level of "what is this bike/my time/period correct worth?" I say go sealed, and get on with the overhaul of this bike.

Edit - that said, I did buy a suntour sprint spindle on ebay for $15-20 bucks because of the taper for my Sprint crankset. Sometimes you gotta.

Chombi

Last time I priced Phil Wood BBs at my LBS's, they cost something like $120 for the cartridge with spindle, plus maybe around $60 for the cupset. So you're nudging something like $200 to get a full set out the door.....then you need the BB tool to install to remove them.... PW only sells them in pairs for something like $35 a set.....
PW's good stuff, but you have to pay to play....
Like already mentioned, it might not be worth putting such an expensive BB on a mid level bike. Lots of other "respectable" brands out there that will cost much less. Stronlight makes some good sealed bearing ones that would not cost as much, just as long as you stay away from their titanium spindled ones....

Chombi

due ruote 

+1 I wouldn't hesitate to do this. Even a low end Shimano unit is good for what, 25k miles? That's quite a while between purchases, especially if you have multiple bikes. If you keep track of how much other stuff you throw away during that time, I promise the eco-footprint will seem pretty inconsequential.

auchencrow

For that kind of money I hope the PW is orders of magnitude better than the cheapie Shimano cartridges. (I burned through 3 of those in 2 seasons on my winter ride, so it's been back to cup and cone since.)

RubberLegs

Sounds like the best bet IS to go with cartridge unit, I see some with AL and some with plastic NonDrive side, I have seen some folks complain about the plastic, but I reckon it SHOULD hold up for at least a few thousand miles of street use. I would guess that Cross or MTB use is a bit rougher on the BB. I'm trying not to pour too much into this bike as it doesn't really fit me, a bit on the big side at 63.5cm. A lot more clean up to do, some rust killing, new cables, bar tape and chain, it may fit my older son, or I may try to recoup by flipping so I can get back to my stalled Torpado build. ONE of my LBSs actually have a few spindles, but he kind of shook his head, called em cheap trash and recommended the cartridges...

3alarmer 

From Velo Orange

RubberLegs

Traded an old Schwinn Suburban and $40 for the TREK....+cables+chain+tape+BB+tubes+tires.....gets pricey fast! :-) That Velo DOES look nice!

JReade

My main bike sees ~2000 miles a year, but it doesn't go out in harsh conditions (We don't really have them here)

This I can see as a concern, however, for FL, it's not as much of a risk.

Rubberlegs - I'm interested in a large frame SS/FG...whats the deal with this tall frame.

tombc

The plastic NDS cup is not a big deal. Never seizes and is easy to destroy for removal if you mess up the tool interface.

If you come to my bike co-op you can have a replacement spindle for $1, you just have to pick it yourself.

RubberLegs

Large Frames? I seem to be CURSED with them! ;-) Slow motion rehab on the TREK, haven't decided just what to do with it (some frame rust I am still investigating, nothing bad so far, but has ruined the paint in several spots), Then my 64cm AD Inter-10, tweaked fork....haven't decided what to do with it either, then a couple big frames, an old ROSS (26" wheels? and an old Jamis 26? perhaps 700s not sure) both about 64 cm

JReade

Speaking my language..I'm 6'5" and they are generally pretty hard to come by.

RubberLegs

Might be able to make some sort of deal on something, if you are over St Pete way sometime, drop on in and "Shop"!

wrk101

I use a lot of Shimano UN26 cartridge BB. Sure, they are not the greatest BB made, but they work just fine. $10 on line, all day long.
\
Be sure to have a few shims handy, as most vintage spindles are assymetric, while new cartridges are symmetric. Shim the drive side, and you are ready to go.

Bianchigirll 

Hey is that spindle for a double or triple? 125mm what is the offset? I might have something kicking around.

RubberLegs

Yes, the 400T is a triple, at the 125, not sure where to measure the offset from...I'll try to look that up and measure, but I am out and runnning at the moment.

Chombi

Personally, I haven't heard any bad things about PW BBs......the still flawlessly working and smooth original one on my 41 year old bike seems to be a good sign....unless the PO changed the bearings out already, but looking through the BB shell drain holes, it looks like the PW BB hasn't budged from where it is for a very very long time.

Chombi

Bianchigirll 

Sorry all I have close at hand is a 121. The offset is measured from the bearing race to the end of the spindle. I think for an older triple like you have it is about a 4mm difference. Is this a 'nutted' spindle or does it have bolts for the cranks?

Also post some infoon the cranks themselves so we can try and puzzle out if you have the right BB to begin with.

ThermionicScott 

If you've got any extra clearance between the cranks/chainrings and the frame, you may be able to get away with a shorter BB and your knees might even like it. I was able to go from a 124mm spindle (32-52-36) to a 113mm (30.5-52-30.5) on my triple-equipped bike, and it made my big ring way more usable. The previous (stock?) BB was comically long, though, with lots of clearance. I have no idea what they were thinking.