Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 35
  1. #1
    Senior Member ftwelder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    vermont
    My Bikes
    Many
    Posts
    3,093
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    So, I got this Motobecane and can't find it in the catalogs.

    I have been in the mode lately where I grab any good frame in my size. It seems like the most logical way to spend my C&V energy when I don't have time to wrench.

    About the beginning of this lifestyle, I ended up with an interesting Motobecane frame. I think I remember the owner saying it was a team champion but that means very little because I know I can't rely on my own memory regarding these things.

    Anyway, so the frame has Huret dropouts, brazed on brake cable guides, windowed lugs, 531 tubes (full) and came with brand panto'd headset and very fancy aluminum cup stronglight bottom bracket. 'Best guesses have the metalwork dated around 1978-1979. The paint is original. The red fork color also seems to be original as are the transfers. This would also be the last year of 531 on better bikes and external lugs on lower bikes.

    The graphics are original and usually found on later models (1984) and frames destined for US were equipped with Campagnolo dropouts.

    The chain stays are not freaky short but it is not a Grand Record (though it is the exact color of my 1970 Grand Record). It weighs the same as an '83 PZ-10 in the same size. It has some remnants of other transfers, not typical on a production bike that I can't make out.

    I am sorry the photos aren't better. I need to make a photo booth. It would be great to trace the serial numbers or find the exact model though i know serial numbers are often useless.

    42?6898 803

    Thanks for looking.


    29 972 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr


    29 970 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr


    29 966 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr


    29 974 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr


    29 968 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr
    1886 Surrey machinists Invincible, 1900 Nashua, 1937 Raleigh Golden Arrow, 1938 Raleigh Silver Record, 1951 Armstrong tourmalet, 1970 Motobecane Grand Record, 1971 Raleigh Professional, 1971 Gitane TDF, 1972 Legnano Gran Primio, 1973, Peugeot PX-10, 1975 Roberts, 1984 Battaglin Giro, 1985 Grandis Speciale, 2012 FTW

    frankthewelder@comcast.net

    le prix s'oublie,la qualité reste ,(michel audiard)

  2. #2
    Senior Member zukahn1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Denver Co
    My Bikes
    Current 79 Nishiki Royal, Jeunet 620, 59 Crown Royal, notable previous bikes P.K. Ripper loop tail, Kawahara Laser Lite, Paramount Track full chrome, Raliegh Internatioanl, Motobecan Super Mirage.
    Posts
    4,426
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    This frame looks to be from the 80's shortly after Moto went under and beacame MKS.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    My Bikes
    Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon
    Posts
    5,775
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I know nothing. Reynolds decal seems to place it in late 70s...

  4. #4
    Senior Member rootboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Sand Spit East
    Posts
    11,949
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quite a mystery Frank. Tell-tale BB hole pattern of the Team Champ and Le Champion. Cutouts in the lugs look late 70's. As Dbakl said, the "gold band" Reynolds decal, with Ti trademark looks late 70's. It's just those graphics that are a stumper. European market, maybe?

    What's that tubular braze on thingy by the drive side dropout? Housing stop?

  5. #5
    Bianchi Goddess Bianchigirll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Camp Hill, PA
    My Bikes
    Too many to list here check my signature.
    Posts
    19,626
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Looks nice. Maybe a respray? or just new decals at some point?
    Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto (2), '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '88 Trofeo, '86 Volpe, '89 Axis, '79 Mixte SOLD, '99 Mega Pro XL Ti, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

    Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '86 Bertoni (sold), '09 Motobecane SS, '98 Hetchins M.O., '09 K2 Mainframe, '89 Trek 2000, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape

  6. #6
    Senior Member 10speedterror's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    NEW HAMPSHIRE
    Posts
    150
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    frank my friend in RI has a le champion that has the same drillings in the bottom bracket but i think it may have campy dropouts but the same lugs im going down there sunday so i can check out the rest of the details

  7. #7
    Senior Member auchencrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Detroit
    Posts
    10,015
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)
    Spec-wise, it seems to stack up to be a '79 European C-41. (E.g., The badge, the Huret DO's, the '531 frame)
    However - The paint/graphics proclaim c. '84 Team Champ.

    I'll call it a '79ish prototypical TC unless someone can say otherwise.
    Last edited by auchencrow; 01-18-13 at 08:13 PM.
    - Auchen

  8. #8
    Senior Member due ruote's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    4,244
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Here are a few of my 1978. Columbus SL tubing. I'm stumped. Many similar features, but different tubing, and the stay ends are quite different from Frank's bike.


    Last edited by due ruote; 01-18-13 at 08:53 PM.

  9. #9
    Super Course fan redneckwes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Lost on the windswept plains of the Great Black Swamp
    Posts
    2,621
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by zukahn1 View Post
    This frame looks to be from the 80's shortly after Moto went under and beacame MKS.
    Motobecane changed their name to MBK.
    http://bicyclenut.bravehost.com/Bicy...nt%20page.html

    The last two bikes on my list are a 50's Lenton Grand Prix and a '64 Raleigh Record.

  10. #10
    Senior Member ftwelder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    vermont
    My Bikes
    Many
    Posts
    3,093
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Thanks for the input. I have been calling it a late 70's C-41. It does have original paint on both frame and fork (If I was to guess a date by looking at the texture, I would say 1975-1978) with Huret drops at both ends. The bits of green color in the images is turtle wax with oil residue.

    I have seen other Huret drops with the housing stop built in. I was fascinated to find the flat, swept seat stay tops and unique housing stop were also features on an early 70's Limongi at the shop (though a little different).

    I have been searching photos to try to find a yellow/red team livery. I guess I should get some measurements.

    I think Motobecane are also called "MOBEC" and I am sure I have read on CR that the upper models looked to be built by different hands over the years.


    29 580 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr


    29 589 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr

    The frame is also going to need a little brazing as the front cable stop is ready to fall off.


    29 979 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr



    Due, that bike is beautiful! Kyle, I would appreciate that!
    Last edited by ftwelder; 01-19-13 at 06:21 AM.
    1886 Surrey machinists Invincible, 1900 Nashua, 1937 Raleigh Golden Arrow, 1938 Raleigh Silver Record, 1951 Armstrong tourmalet, 1970 Motobecane Grand Record, 1971 Raleigh Professional, 1971 Gitane TDF, 1972 Legnano Gran Primio, 1973, Peugeot PX-10, 1975 Roberts, 1984 Battaglin Giro, 1985 Grandis Speciale, 2012 FTW

    frankthewelder@comcast.net

    le prix s'oublie,la qualité reste ,(michel audiard)

  11. #11
    Cisalpinist Italuminium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Holland
    My Bikes
    1980 ALAN, 2005 Principia, 60's frame-turned-fixie
    Posts
    4,803
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    That weird red fork throws me off a little, but seems indeed like an original Motobecane paint job with that weird habit of theirs to just chrome the top of the crown but paint the bottom...
    Pass the Dutchie on the non-drive side.
    Rather a 100$ bike with 1000$ wheels than a 1000$ bike with 100$ wheels.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    9,997
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    The Huret short dropouts made their debut in 1977, however I believe that headbadge style first appeared in 1978. The down and seat tube logo style first appeared in 1981, on the La Redoute-Motobecane team bicycles and was used on the team bicycles until their demise, circa 1985. However, the ones on the seat tube do not appear lined up, as if they had been applied letter by letter, so they may not be OEM. Based on the characteristics, pending further evidence, it appears to be a very late 1970s, European model, either upper mid-range or lower, high end. Could you post a picture of the chain stay and seat stay bridges? TIA.

    Edit: A photo of the fork ends/dropouts would be appreciated also.
    Last edited by T-Mar; 01-19-13 at 12:52 PM.

  13. #13
    Senior Member ftwelder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    vermont
    My Bikes
    Many
    Posts
    3,093
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
    The Huret short dropouts made their debut in 1977, however I believe that headbadge style first appeared in 1978. The down and seat tube logo style first appeared in 1981, on the La Redoute-Motobecane team bicycles and was used on the team bicycles until their demise, circa 1985. However, the ones on the seat tube do not appear lined up, as if they had been applied letter by letter, so they may not be OEM. Based on the characteristics, pending further evidence, it appears to be a very late 1970s, European model, either upper mid-range or lower, high end. Could you post a picture of the chain stay and seat stay bridges? TIA.

    Edit: A photo of the fork ends/dropouts would be appreciated also.
    Thanks! I went by the shop and snapped a few more photos on the way to take a walk.

    The chain stay bridge is a rolled tube with punched hole and no reinforcements. The seat stay bridge is a little nicer and I got a photo of that. It's a seamless tube, fillet brazed with a thimble.


    29 1070 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr

    Fork drops.


    29 1067 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr

    I also photographed remains of bands on the seat tube and another one I can't identify on the right side of the down tube. The bands look like they were applied when the paint was wet.

    The chain stays are 430mm at the longest axle position. I think the angles are 73/73. I should have measured the MOTOBECANE letters to see if they were cut to a fractional or metric increment. Letters purchased at a stationary store are "hot cut" and usually have a lip on the edge. These were cold die cut and pretty old vinyl.

    The tubes weren't mitered inside the BB shell with a great degree of care.


    29 1072 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr


    29 1073 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr
    1886 Surrey machinists Invincible, 1900 Nashua, 1937 Raleigh Golden Arrow, 1938 Raleigh Silver Record, 1951 Armstrong tourmalet, 1970 Motobecane Grand Record, 1971 Raleigh Professional, 1971 Gitane TDF, 1972 Legnano Gran Primio, 1973, Peugeot PX-10, 1975 Roberts, 1984 Battaglin Giro, 1985 Grandis Speciale, 2012 FTW

    frankthewelder@comcast.net

    le prix s'oublie,la qualité reste ,(michel audiard)

  14. #14
    vintage motor kroozer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Tepic, Nayarit, Mexico
    Posts
    872
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Frank, what makes you so sure the paint and logos are original? Especially the fork, where you can see yellow paint beneath the red. From what others are saying, the construction (late 70's) would be earlier than the logos (early-mid 80's).
    Looks like a pretty nice frame.

  15. #15
    Cisalpinist Italuminium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Holland
    My Bikes
    1980 ALAN, 2005 Principia, 60's frame-turned-fixie
    Posts
    4,803
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well that bridge is identical to my euro spec grand record... Got
    to check the DO's at home though.
    Pass the Dutchie on the non-drive side.
    Rather a 100$ bike with 1000$ wheels than a 1000$ bike with 100$ wheels.

  16. #16
    Cisalpinist Italuminium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Holland
    My Bikes
    1980 ALAN, 2005 Principia, 60's frame-turned-fixie
    Posts
    4,803
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    lugs, weird axle stoppers and raised logo's are also the same as on my euro grand rec. as are the dropouts. Mine have no markings however. Yours apparently has a stop for the DT shifter clamp on the top of the tube, whereas mine has it on the bottom.
    Pass the Dutchie on the non-drive side.
    Rather a 100$ bike with 1000$ wheels than a 1000$ bike with 100$ wheels.

  17. #17
    Senior Member ftwelder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    vermont
    My Bikes
    Many
    Posts
    3,093
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by kroozer View Post
    Frank, what makes you so sure the paint and logos are original? Especially the fork, where you can see yellow paint beneath the red. From what others are saying, the construction (late 70's) would be earlier than the logos (early-mid 80's).
    Looks like a pretty nice frame.
    I wasn't really able to see all the masking flaws until I looked at the images.

    The stickers may have been added later after a respray for sure but paint is old and cracked like an original spray. My GR has really long chain stays but it is very close in color.
    Last edited by ftwelder; 01-19-13 at 06:36 PM.
    1886 Surrey machinists Invincible, 1900 Nashua, 1937 Raleigh Golden Arrow, 1938 Raleigh Silver Record, 1951 Armstrong tourmalet, 1970 Motobecane Grand Record, 1971 Raleigh Professional, 1971 Gitane TDF, 1972 Legnano Gran Primio, 1973, Peugeot PX-10, 1975 Roberts, 1984 Battaglin Giro, 1985 Grandis Speciale, 2012 FTW

    frankthewelder@comcast.net

    le prix s'oublie,la qualité reste ,(michel audiard)

  18. #18
    Senior Member ftwelder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    vermont
    My Bikes
    Many
    Posts
    3,093
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Italuminium View Post
    lugs, weird axle stoppers and raised logo's are also the same as on my euro grand rec. as are the dropouts. Mine have no markings however. Yours apparently has a stop for the DT shifter clamp on the top of the tube, whereas mine has it on the bottom.
    Sounds like a winner! I think the racing models have 74 angles and this bike is closer to 73. Do you have a chain hanger and perf'd BB shell?

    The 1979 French catalog shows the C-41 with the same tube set and dropouts.
    Last edited by ftwelder; 01-19-13 at 06:52 PM.
    1886 Surrey machinists Invincible, 1900 Nashua, 1937 Raleigh Golden Arrow, 1938 Raleigh Silver Record, 1951 Armstrong tourmalet, 1970 Motobecane Grand Record, 1971 Raleigh Professional, 1971 Gitane TDF, 1972 Legnano Gran Primio, 1973, Peugeot PX-10, 1975 Roberts, 1984 Battaglin Giro, 1985 Grandis Speciale, 2012 FTW

    frankthewelder@comcast.net

    le prix s'oublie,la qualité reste ,(michel audiard)

  19. #19
    Cisalpinist Italuminium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Holland
    My Bikes
    1980 ALAN, 2005 Principia, 60's frame-turned-fixie
    Posts
    4,803
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ftwelder View Post
    Sounds like a winner!
    Yeah, but the BB shell is different (no drillings) and the chain stays on my Grand Record don't seem that long as they are on your GR.. about 415 mm if I measure it correctly (which I doubt). Anyway, I think we can safely assume that the Motobecane factory at the time went through some great shuffling and parts and build methods ended up all over the place for all kinds of markets
    Pass the Dutchie on the non-drive side.
    Rather a 100$ bike with 1000$ wheels than a 1000$ bike with 100$ wheels.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    9,997
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    After doing some more research, I'm not even convinced that this is a European model. The frame features are very consistent the circa 1978 Le Champion right down to the Huret dropouts, bullet shaped stay and blade ends, tangs on the blades but not the stays, flat on the brake bridge, etc, etc, etc.

    I even happened to stumble across a photo of the bicycle, posted by a previous owner. It looks like those seat tube bands were simply electrical tape, to protect the finish, probably because it was a repaint and not baked. The down tube sticker appears to have been another piece of black electrical tape to protect the frame from the knurled cable tension knob of the Duera-Ace EX brakes that it was previously equipped it. The downtube stickers are again, not aligned well. I'm pretty much convined this was probably repainted in the early to mid-1980s.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  21. #21
    Senior Member due ruote's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    4,244
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Here's a couple more of my '78. Again, lots of similarities, but not identical.

    Last edited by due ruote; 01-20-13 at 02:44 PM. Reason: fixed photo

  22. #22
    Senior Member rootboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Sand Spit East
    Posts
    11,949
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Great sleuthing there, T-Mar.

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    9,997
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by due ruote View Post
    Here's a couple more of my '78. Again, lots of similarities, but not identical...
    Yes, but yours is a 1978 Team Champion not the Le Champion, which was a step down, used Reynolds versus Columbus, didn't have the tangs on the bridges and used the Reynolds bullet ends on the dropouts ends of the stays and blades.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  24. #24
    Senior Member due ruote's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    4,244
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
    Yes, but yours is a 1978 Team Champion not the Le Champion, which was a step down, used Reynolds versus Columbus, didn't have the tangs on the bridges and used the Reynolds bullet ends on the dropouts ends of the stays and blades.
    Right you are - that looks like a good match.

  25. #25
    Senior Member rootboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Sand Spit East
    Posts
    11,949
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    And note the little derailleur housing stop right by the dropout. Same as Frank's.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •