Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-09-13, 06:03 PM   #1
jimmuller 
What??? Only 2 wheels?
Thread Starter
 
jimmuller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston-ish, MA
Bikes: '73 Raleigh Carlton Gran Sport, '72 Peugeot UO-8, '82 Peugeot TH8, '87 Bianchi Brava, '76? Masi Grand Criterium, '87 Centurion Ironman Expert, '74 Motobecane Champion Team, '86 Gazelle champion mondial, '81? Grandis, and lots of uncertainty on some
Posts: 10,466
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
DO threading, Campy-style(s?)

A year or two or three ago I acquired a Campy Nuovo Gran Sport RD. I've been wanting to put it on a particular bike which has Campy DO's but it doesn't want to thread on. I've mounted a Suntour Cyclone II on the bike and it went on easily. The Campy RD just doesn't like the threads. It will go on no more than one turn and isn't happy about going on that much. I don't want to force it with a big wrench.

The threads do not appear damaged. They appear to be the same as various Suntour RD's in my parts stash, but perhaps not.

Might Campy have made a version of this RD with, say, French threads?

It's not an earth-shattering question, but that RD seems to be unusable for now.
__________________
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
jimmuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-13, 08:22 PM   #2
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 11,891
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 158 Post(s)
Campagnolo dropouts use 10mm x 26 TPI, mixed metric and imperial threading. SunTour and just about everybody else uses 10mm x 1mm. Also, there's a slight difference in the angle, crest and roots.While they're close, all these differences mean they're not compatible. Installing the SunTour has reformed the threads, damaging them in the process. Ideally you'd want to run a 10mm x 26TPI tap through the dropouts to clean things up before installing the Campagnolo derailleur.
T-Mar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-13, 08:37 PM   #3
jimmuller 
What??? Only 2 wheels?
Thread Starter
 
jimmuller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston-ish, MA
Bikes: '73 Raleigh Carlton Gran Sport, '72 Peugeot UO-8, '82 Peugeot TH8, '87 Bianchi Brava, '76? Masi Grand Criterium, '87 Centurion Ironman Expert, '74 Motobecane Champion Team, '86 Gazelle champion mondial, '81? Grandis, and lots of uncertainty on some
Posts: 10,466
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
Campagnolo dropouts use 10mm x 26 TPI, mixed metric and imperial threading. SunTour and just about everybody else uses 10mm x 1mm. ...Installing the SunTour has reformed the threads, damaging them in the process.
Thank you. The Cyclone went on very easily as if it had been meant to. I had tried the Campy first and it didn't go. The fact is, I have no idea what this bike's history might have seen. It is the Belgian Bertin, English BB, 26.0mm seat post.

But waitaminute. I recall doing installing a 1st get Cyclone on the Masi for a test ride and it went on easily, and then a Campy NR which also went on easily. I've hung out around (and wrenched on) little furrin' sports cars all my adult life so I do know what forced threads feel like. On the other hand, the Masi's history is also largely unknown. Evidence point to it once having carried DuraAce brakes and Suntour bar-end shifters, so the derailloeurs could have been anything.
__________________
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
jimmuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-13, 08:42 PM   #4
John E
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Bikes: 1959 Capo; 1980 Peugeot PKN-10; 1981 Bianchi; 1988 Schwinn KOM-10;
Posts: 17,046
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
You may be able to find a SunTour bolt which will work w/ your Campag. derailleur. Otherwise, something indeed needs to be rethreaded.
__________________
"Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
Capo [dschaw'-poe]: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger, S/N 42624
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1981 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-13, 08:53 PM   #5
Michael Angelo 
Senior Member
 
Michael Angelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hurricane Alley , Florida
Bikes: Treks (USA), Schwinn Paramount, Schwinn letour,Raleigh Team Professional, Gazelle GoldLine Racing, 2 Super Mondias, Carlton Professional.
Posts: 3,765
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
I've had this same thing happen to me. I took the Campy Bolt and ran a 10mmx1mm die. Problem fixed.
Michael Angelo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-13, 08:55 PM   #6
rootboy 
Senior Member
 
rootboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Bikes:
Posts: 15,705
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Do you have screw pitch gauges Jim? Might try threading the Nuovo Record top bolt in and see if you get the same result.
rootboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-13, 08:58 PM   #7
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 16,626
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
There is no such thing as a French-threaded bolt.
Grand Bois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-13, 09:25 PM   #8
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Posts: 16,448
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
Ideally you'd want to run a 10mm x 26TPI tap through the dropouts to clean things up before installing the Campagnolo derailleur.
...and good luck finding one of those! You'll just have to force it on.
JohnDThompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-13, 09:52 PM   #9
jimmuller 
What??? Only 2 wheels?
Thread Starter
 
jimmuller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston-ish, MA
Bikes: '73 Raleigh Carlton Gran Sport, '72 Peugeot UO-8, '82 Peugeot TH8, '87 Bianchi Brava, '76? Masi Grand Criterium, '87 Centurion Ironman Expert, '74 Motobecane Champion Team, '86 Gazelle champion mondial, '81? Grandis, and lots of uncertainty on some
Posts: 10,466
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
Do you have screw pitch gauges Jim? Might try threading the Nuovo Record top bolt in and see if you get the same result.
No, I don't. But a thread-to-thread matchup of the Cyclone and Gran Sport bolts sure makes them look the same. Maybe the threads aren't long enough to show the discrepancy. I'm not going to take the NR off the Masi just to check the threads. (That's what C&V is for .)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
There is no such thing as a French-threaded bolt.
Fair enough. I was just thinking maybe the GS had come off a Simplex DO, but since I've never owned one I wouldn't know.

In fact, until recently I've never had much reason to think about it.
__________________
Real cyclists use toe clips.
With great bikes comes great responsibility.
jimmuller
jimmuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-13, 06:53 AM   #10
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 11,891
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 158 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
...and good luck finding one of those! You'll just have to force it on.
There's one in every Campagnolo tool kit. Almost every LBS who carried high end bicycles had one of these, as it was the cheapest method to get a complete set of facing, reaming and threading tools. Given that the OP lives in the Boston area, I imagine there are a few shops around that would have them.

As suggested by Michael Angelo, using a 10mmx 1mm die on the derailleur hanger bolt is another option, but tapping the dropout is preferable, as it is softer steel than the bolt.

Of course, it can always be just forced in, as you suggest. A lot of Campagnolo dropouts had Shimano bolts forced into them in the late 1980s, after SIS arrived. The derailleur bolt is not a high load situation where proper thread form is critical. Still, I wouldn't want to be switching back and between Italian and non-Italian derailleurs.
T-Mar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-13, 09:07 AM   #11
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Posts: 16,448
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
There's one in every Campagnolo tool kit.
No, a 10mm x 26tpi tap was not part of any Campy tool kit I've ever seen (and I even own one!). It doesn't even appear in the Campy catalog.

Edit: I take that back! It does appear in the 1974 catalog, at least, but not as part of any of the tool cases. And FWIW, I've never seen one in all my years.


Last edited by JohnDThompson; 03-10-13 at 09:53 AM.
JohnDThompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-13, 09:36 AM   #12
1 Lugnut
Senior Member
 
1 Lugnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Bikes: Mondia Prestige, Motobecane Grand Record, Cinelli SC, Colnago Superissimo, Mondia Super, Titan, Windsor
Posts: 411
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I used a 10mm x 26 Titanium hanger bolt to clean-up the threads on a messed-up DO hanger. I think is was an SRP replacement bolt I had laying around. They're also in a Super Record RD's.

1 Lugnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-13, 01:22 PM   #13
dddd
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Bikes: Cheltenham-Pederson racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.
Posts: 5,069
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
One more thing is that there is some degree of tolerance variation on threaded holes.

I've come across more than one pair of older, BSA-threaded Campag crankarms which required a lot of torque in order to thread in a pair of Shimano pedals, even though the thread spec on both parts is the same.

I usually thread in the interfering part with a back-and-forth motion as needed to avoid exceeding a maximum level of hoop stress in the female threaded part. I've even used this method to force a BSA Shimano cartridge bb into a Swiss-threaded bb shell, with enough "loosening" back-and-forth cycles to allow a feel for the torque of the cups bottoming on the flange mating (right side) and the bb cartridge (left side).


Last edited by dddd; 03-10-13 at 01:32 PM.
dddd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:28 PM.