rebel1916

Y'know, I've had it with all this anti Irish prejudice. As soon as I finish this beer, I'm gonna climb down off this stool and kick your ass.

MetalPedaler

Mama'mia! I'ma gonna get'a my'a cousin Vinny and'a Angelo and a'Nunzio, and'a we gonna make'a you face a'look'a like the scungilli! Just'a as soon as'a we finish eating the spaghetti and the braciole and a'the........

Well, we get'a you good tomorrow, eh?!

Velognome 

just insert the color cartridge...duh!

JesusBananas

This thread is amazingly childish.

ericbaker

It's Common scientific sense. The same amount of Work put into 2 different systems will yield greater results from the system with more power transfer efficiency, less aerodynamic drag, and less Mass to accelerate and carry. I can provide those facts..... So i suppose if your entire ride goes Downhill, we might have a point to argue.

Barchettaman

What would it cost?
well, I bought a Kinesis aluminium frame (big diameter tubing) for €27 on local pick up eBay.
I have a 1" carbon fork on hand, so would use that.
I would *imagine* that this frame, with the €160 10-speed Tiagra groupset I also got on eBay, would be similar.
I would use the Rigida DP18 wheelset I got for €30.

rccardr 

Clearly, you are correct and your point is well taken. However, in 'real world' terms, it takes more than a 5 pound difference and slightly improved transfer efficiency to provide a noticeable performance improvement.

Gas pipe three speed with upright bars against a new carbon wonder? Sure.
New carbon wonder against a high end 25 year old steel bike? Not so much.

Velognome 

Childish...ehhh**********

I think we could do better if we tried

rebel1916

Oh, you guys win on food. I made a traditional bolognese sauce for my fire house last week that would have had you calling me nonna. And not just because of my mustache.

bradtx

MP, There's at least a couple of ways to look at your question. First is cost as a new DA equipped roadie can cost 2-3 times, and more, what a DA Klein would've cost when new. Group performance can be duplicated for the same or less cost now if looking at just that aspect. The second is overall performance of the bicycle. Clearly the key to this is the cyclist, but an older bike with a modern group can hang with anybody on a group ride in a recreational/training format that contains the same level of cyclists.

On the other hand a competetive cyclist seeking podium finishes will use only the latest and greatest and no matter how highly an old bicycle was once considered, it just isn't good enough.

Brad

longbeachgary

Oh my!!!

longbeachgary

Says the guy with the banana avatar!!!!

dookie

che cavolo? no campagnolo? pfff.

dookie

OP:

here's the best apples to apples i can come up with for your (imho) race-oriented, uber-stiff alloy, handmade in the USA, best non-campy running gear of the day ride.

frame: spooky or gaulzetti, either w/enve fork
group: sram red
wheels: a wide-section, mid-depth (~50mm) carbon rim, nice hubs...your choice.

if you think the klein is a rocket, i think you'd be impressed by a modern alloy bike.

MetalPedaler

Says you! ilmmmmmmm!!![sticks out tongue] 'Fraid not!

Hmmm...that would be inty-resting to see. You may be right. It's good to know that they're still making high-end alloy bikes. Some have speculated that the reason Trek killed off Klein is because they thought there was no market for high-end aluminum, after CF came on the scene. Seeing the prices today of good vintage metal bikes these days on Ebay; and the demand for them, would easily prove Trek wrong.

Maybe one day the manufacturers will get it together with CF- making it strong, durable and inexpensive....but for now, bicycles should still be made of metal! Oh yeah!

Va funcul!

Mjm6

Happy birthday to you... What rims/wheels are those? The look great with the chrome.

Beautiful bicycle. In the 80's I bought a Nishiki Olympic 12 while in high school. In the late 80's I had a Canondale (don't recall the model). I purchased a Klein Quantum in about 1990, which I much preferred to the C-dale. Built it up with Campy Athena and Record bits.

Flash forward to this year, and I still have the Klein, but it has recently been replaced with a Merckx Corsa 01. So I've come full circle so to speak. Back to a steel frame and loving it.

---Michael

ftwelder

I make aluminum frames, in fact I make the custom Spooky frames as well as my own brand. I also repair a lot of vintage aluminum frames and have seen plenty of Klein frames inside and out. They were very well made frames and quite costly to produce no doubt. They would still be expensive to produce, they are also primitive by todays standards as alu frames have advanced a bit.

Here is my modern alu bike, custom built (mickey at spooky measured me and provided much of the geo) it has the ENVE fork, RED components with thompson controls (and handlebars now also). This frame with the tube shaping and smoothed welds would run around $1600 including the fit.

I engineered this frame to have some additional mechanical advantage over the tubes and perhaps be a bit smoother that an oversized aluminum frame. I am not sure how that went because I don't any oversize alu bikes for comparison. It seems fast.



I am doing a bike with straight round tubes and smoothed welds this week.


29 781 by frankthewelder, on Flickr


29 680 by frankthewelder, on Flickr

Barchettaman

Frank, it's such a joy to have you on this forum.
what a bloody wonderful bike!

MetalPedaler

WoW, FrankTheWelder! Beauty!

I think aluminum gets a bad rap, as far as people saying that it rides harshly. I don't know if it's a subjective thing, that varies from person to person, or what- but I'll tell you, even my $300 Bikesdirect aluminum bike with a chro-mo fork rides silky smooth in my book. Yet I've heard others complain that Kleins rode harshly. I sure hope that some day I'll have the opportunity to ride a bike like yours, Frank, for comparison's sake!

WNG

Different materials will have their ride characteristics. It's more design than material. My Vitus rides bloody smooth for obvious reasons and it's aluminum. And rode more modern Aluminum and didn't find it harsh. I don't prefer one material over the other.

As for matching a classic Klein, off the shelf Giant CF TCR w/6700 Ultegra is a little over $2400. Or a hydroformed aluminum Giant Defy a $1k less. But given what Frank is offering, I'd have to place my order for one of his hand-made works of art.

StanSeven

This bike is probably close to the Klein today. There are constant improvements in refinements over time. 015 today is every bit as good as older D/A; these wheels are much lighter, more aero, and as strong; stem, bars, seatpost, etc are better and lighter.

https://www.cannondale.com/2013/bikes...mpact-crankset

MetalPedaler

Interesting. I'd say you're right- except for the relaxed geo. (That frame actually looks like a clone of my $300 Bikesdirect bike! )

I'd say you're spot-on about the 9-speed D/A being equal to today's 105, too...if not Tiagra!

I like C'dales...but that bike sure doesn't have the paint-job or the character of the Klein!

ColonelJLloyd 

Where in the Bluegrass are you?

I love the avatar.

StanSeven

I couldn't agree more. Kleins have the best paint job of just about any mass produced bikes anywhere

MetalPedaler

Thanks [The avatar suits me, 'cause I'm a "fred"! ]. I'm about 120 miles south of you. (When I move to the sticks...I really do it! )