old large erd 700c rim and tire choice
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old large erd 700c rim and tire choice
backstory: i'm building up my new '84 club fuji that came with mismatched 700c rims (one was gold colored), so i placed a cl advert for a silver colored rim. i thought i scored a great deal with a reply for two shimano 600 hubs laced to ambrosio 19 extra elite rims (36h). the hubs are just beautiful and the built up wheels are true and seemed a perfect match for this build. i also scored an ebay auction of my first ever set of folding panaracer paselas to mount on this wheelset.
problem: the rims seem to be big in diameter. i don't know the erd, but when i compare the wheels to both 27" and 700c wheels, the ambrosios fall somewhere in between. i swapped the front ambrosio wheel with two different bikes (with these two different wheel sizes) and found that the ambrosios would work with the brake reach on both bikes with a little adjustment in the brake pad. when the ambrosios are placed in the intended fuji with shimano 600 calipers, the reach barely works with the pad all the way toward to the top.
major issue: fitting the folding paselas is one of the most difficult things i've ever done. i don't know what labor during birth is like, but now i can guess. it's just not worth it. at first, i thought these new tires were mislabeled defectives and asked the ebay seller about them. he assured me they were good, but very tght fitting. i love the idea of using these tires, but i can't imagine having to change a flat on the road. i've gone through two tubes, two tire levers, successfully mounted only one tire so far, and have almost run out of patience.
questions: what gum sidewall tire would be a better choice? should i just man up and go to war with this rim/tire combo? would the cheaper nonfolding pasela be easier to mount? can you suggest another gum sidewall tire in this price range that would give me more confidence in changing a flat on the road? is it possible to mount and successfully ride the folding pasela in the 27" size on this rim? should i question greater meanings like my own existence and everything i've done to date? can anything be overcome, or are there dead ends where all hope is lost?
thank you in advance for your guidance and exceptional mentoring capabilities, good people of the forum.
problem: the rims seem to be big in diameter. i don't know the erd, but when i compare the wheels to both 27" and 700c wheels, the ambrosios fall somewhere in between. i swapped the front ambrosio wheel with two different bikes (with these two different wheel sizes) and found that the ambrosios would work with the brake reach on both bikes with a little adjustment in the brake pad. when the ambrosios are placed in the intended fuji with shimano 600 calipers, the reach barely works with the pad all the way toward to the top.
major issue: fitting the folding paselas is one of the most difficult things i've ever done. i don't know what labor during birth is like, but now i can guess. it's just not worth it. at first, i thought these new tires were mislabeled defectives and asked the ebay seller about them. he assured me they were good, but very tght fitting. i love the idea of using these tires, but i can't imagine having to change a flat on the road. i've gone through two tubes, two tire levers, successfully mounted only one tire so far, and have almost run out of patience.
questions: what gum sidewall tire would be a better choice? should i just man up and go to war with this rim/tire combo? would the cheaper nonfolding pasela be easier to mount? can you suggest another gum sidewall tire in this price range that would give me more confidence in changing a flat on the road? is it possible to mount and successfully ride the folding pasela in the 27" size on this rim? should i question greater meanings like my own existence and everything i've done to date? can anything be overcome, or are there dead ends where all hope is lost?
thank you in advance for your guidance and exceptional mentoring capabilities, good people of the forum.
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General searches for "Abrosio 19 Elite rims tires too tight" will generate lots of quality hits. Many of us have broken tire irons getting tires on the rims.
I love the rims, they are strong and never go out of true it seems. But if I have to mount a tire on them, it has to be a training tire like a Conti gatorskin with a tuffy liner. I want 10 years out of those before seeing them off the rim again.
I love the rims, they are strong and never go out of true it seems. But if I have to mount a tire on them, it has to be a training tire like a Conti gatorskin with a tuffy liner. I want 10 years out of those before seeing them off the rim again.
#3
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ERD and BSD are not the same thing, though some rims have deeper walls than others. Some rims and folding tires are just really tough. A different brand of tire is not likely to help. Have you tried either of these?
Kool Stop tire jack.
VAR Super Tyre tool
Kool Stop tire jack.
VAR Super Tyre tool
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Here is an explainer:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html
Not all 700c tires are exactly the same, some are tight no matter the rim. I forget which tires are large at the bead.
A telling comment, I bought a set of NOS rims off ebay once and taped to the outside of my rims were a pair of very lightly used Ambrosio 19's. I got them for free basically, now you know why.
#5
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I've never had much trouble with mine, must be lucky? I've had the following tires on them:
Specialized Turbos in both 23 and 25
Ritchey Tom Slicks in 25
Continental Gatorskins in 28s
Conti GP4 Seasons in 28s
I can rarely put tires on without an iron for the 1st bead. Yeah, the set of MA40s I have is easier, as were the Matrix ISOs. The tire jack might help the OP; never had or used one though they look like a good thing to have around.
Specialized Turbos in both 23 and 25
Ritchey Tom Slicks in 25
Continental Gatorskins in 28s
Conti GP4 Seasons in 28s
I can rarely put tires on without an iron for the 1st bead. Yeah, the set of MA40s I have is easier, as were the Matrix ISOs. The tire jack might help the OP; never had or used one though they look like a good thing to have around.
#6
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I guess maybe it works out for me that when I replaced the old crackly Conti's on my set of these I happened to be in enough of a hurry (having just had one tire go out on me downtown on my way to something) that I had the LBS do the switch for new Gatorskins. They didn't say anything about it being a problem, but they have their professional pride...
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Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd
…Have you tried either of these..?
... I think the problem is the ultimate radius beyond the bead seat diameter, BSD, not ERD... Here is an explainer: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html
I forget which tires are large at the bead.
thanks for that. is it true that wire/non folding tires are easier to install than the folding type?
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Conti Gatorskins are puncture resistant and heavier than high end race tires. Good for those that train. Tuffy liners are another means of guarding against punctures, an effective but somewhat dated approach, good for urban commuting. The point is to avoid flats when using those rims.
When others say they had no problem mounting rubber on Elite 19's, I wonder if the manufacturer put them through a retooling. I tried 4 different tires on these rims with limited to no success.
When others say they had no problem mounting rubber on Elite 19's, I wonder if the manufacturer put them through a retooling. I tried 4 different tires on these rims with limited to no success.
#9
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Dunno, maybe they did? Mine are part of a wheelset I had built back in 1980 IIRC. I am not particularly afraid of mine in terms of fixing on the road, but if you have a set that is a beatch to mount tires on, good advice.
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My Ambrosio Elite are a bit tough to get a tire on, but I've seen worse.
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worse would be giving birth to an alien. but maybe not, as, at least with alien birth, there's no choice. here, when you're struggling putting a tire on a rim and your hand is cramping, bleeding, seeing visions, you wonder, "what the hell am i doing?" and then you start to question everything. alien birth might be easier. with that, at least there is no existential dilemma.
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The BSD, or bead seat diameter is the diameter of the seat that the rim has for the bead, the "hook" zone. from my quick measure of the Ambrosio 19's I have the rim cross section is a bit taller so it goes up the tire more, about 1 mm, not much but enough. Design error? Tooling error? Just worried about the new high pressure tires blowing off the rim? Who knows.
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interesting. but "1mm" does not quite do justice in explaining this paricular folding pasela/ambrosio rim combo. could be these paselas are really 26" and the gods are momentarily having their way with me.
#14
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repechage could be right on the BSD being a bit large. The center channel, where you try to get the first bead on down into, is small compared to other rims as well, making it more difficult to get the all important 2nd bead on.
Another note: as built, mine had the narrow (10/11mm) Velox rim strips in them and worked that way for 20 years. When I changed tires, I started having pinch flats (walking home 2-5 miles every ride), which got old fast. I changed the rim strips out to the 17mm Velox and problem solved.
Last edited by Pars; 03-13-13 at 08:08 AM.
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^ interesting tip on the rim tape. i'll change it -- could be my issue with the one tire i haven't yet mounted successfully.
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is it true that wire/non folding tires are easier to install than the folding type?
Good tip about the rim tape, by the way.
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