cpsqlrwn

Not really much different from getting an email from someone who wants to buy something on the cheap. At least I am willing to discuss paying a fair price which is a lot more than I can say about most people around here.

gomango

Come to think of it, I've never listed an item here.

Probably won't start either, as the cupboards are getting mighty lean of c&v related items.

I just bought a bicycle here from a forum member though and it was one of the nicest, easiest transactions I've taken part in.

SirMike1983 

I like straightforward. When I really want a bike, I look it over closely and contact the seller directly. I like having my bargaining chips ready if I think the initial price is high. If high, I bring out the bargaining chips and try to negotiate a lower one. If that works, great. If it's still too high in the end, I pass. If I like the initial price and what I see, I just buy it. It isn't innovative, but it works often enough. It's tempting to throw in editorializing comments in negotiating sometimes, but generally to be avoided. Actually, the "I don't know, what do you think it's worth" reply is a good opportunity to bring out some of your better bargaining points as reasons for your offer.

RobbieTunes

Absolutely +1

If he's not gotten any offers besides yours, at least you can open a dialogue.
You can discuss what you think it's actually worth, and why.
You can discuss what you can pay, and why.
Maybe it will happen.

Good, honest communication works well if he's truly interested in selling at a fair price.
Good, honest communication works well if you're truly interested in buying at a fair price.
If both of you end up satisfied, it's a fair price. If both of you end up dissatisfied, the same may be true.
At least you're communicating on it, and negotiations can center on value.

Other tactics, based on reasons of less integrity, don't work when both are focused on relative value.

gomango

Yes, a straightforward conversation is best.

The forum member I bought the bicycle from was fair with his initial price, so there were no negotiations.

Worked out a few details in ten minutes on the phone and the box is already on its way from the east coast.

That's how I like to do business. Short and sweet.

TimmyT 

In plainer language, being a "nice guy" has worked for me. Rudeness never does. If I were to interpret your initial email as rude, then I would probably not respond.

As for the bike, it is always advantageous to say you are an enthusiast. I think a $2000+ vintage frame is probably unreasonable for all but the most unusual of marques. While I don't know the actual value of this DeRosa frame, maybe it's in the $400-600 range. So, the seller would be sellling at a 75% discount. I think it is not only unrealistic that he would sell at his listed price but also that he would give such a large discount, even if you are in the know.

I'm sure it's a nice bike, but I would let this one go. One of the nice things about vintage bikes is that there will always be another.

Edit: I see my estimate was off per the post below. I think a 50% discount is still too much, however.

cpsqlrwn

Actually I took the seller's response of "honestly I don't know what it's worth, what do you think?" to be exactly that, an attempt to draw me into a conversation that was intended to lead me to a higher level than I had previously offered. This was confirmed when I later wrote him this message......

"Do you really not know how much this is worth? I'm a little stunned really. Perhaps I should rephrase my first question. Rather than asking what you think a fair price would be, I'll ask you what the minimum price you have set under your best offer parameters? This is one of those frames that could bring $1000 or $1200 or a much more modest amount, as low as $550 or $650, just depends on who is interested. Clearly, with only 11 watchers on a DeRosa, your price is apparently running everyone off. A frame like this should easily have 40 or more watchers. You should just do a search on completed transactions under sporting goods with the keyword derosa, but I am sure you already know that. You definitely cannot go by what other sellers are asking because asking prices are often inflated, particularly foreign sellers. I would not even factor foreign listings into your thought process. Hope this helps!"

To which he responded.....
"Are you offering me 1200 or giving me advice on how to price my merchandise? I appreciate the advice, and if you are offering me 1200 I will give it serious consideration!"

To which I responded...
"The purpose of my message is best expressed in my last sentence... "Hope this helps"
Not giving advice or making an offer. What I said was in my opinion, this frame and fork could possibly bring as much as $1200 or as little as $550. I have paid $1200 for frames before, but not for an SLX frame from the mid to late 80's. But there may be someone out there who would pay $1200. $1500 or best offer might get you $1200 from someone where $2200 or best offer would not. Good luck getting it sold."

To which he responded...
"Thanks! As I mentioned, I appreciate your advice"

So we can draw the conclusion that $1200 gets serious consideration, and we can also draw the conclusion that the seller was not horribly put off by my messages. Either that or he's desperate to sell this to anyone who is willing to part with at least $1200.

gomango

A fair price for this frameset certainly is not $4-$600.

A decent starting point would likely be a grand.

Simply not that many out there in nice original condition.

If it's clean, you have to pay the price.

TimmyT 

Yep. Sorry about that. I defer to the DeRosa owners here. I don't have one, haven't ridden one, but enjoy looking at what you guys have done with them. Regardless, I think my point about a $1k discount on a $2k price tag is still valid.

gomango

Yep, you are correct.

$2,200 for an SLX frame is well out of my league though.

....and well out of the reasonable range unless it's a 35th Anniversario, Signature or a DeRosa frameset with special, noteworthy characteristics.

@Timmy T If you get a chance to ride a De Rosa, snap at the op.

I have never ridden one I didn't like.

cpsqlrwn

I would tend to agree wth this assessment. When I wrote that this frame might go from anywhere from ($550 to $650) to ($1000 to $1200), I was speaking about letting it go without reserve in an eBay auction. Allowing international buyers might increase that as well. It appears to be very clean and while I normally like red DeRosas, this particular one favors a candy apple color a little more than I like. Perhaps it is the photographs. I really prefer the deeper Ferrari red. This bike was bought from a person in Florida and the seller knows nothing of its history. And the seller clearly doesn't know much about vintage bikes either. His listing title says 1980 and I believe SLX didn't even exist until 1984. If you check out his eBay store, which is very extensive, in frames he has a lot of very pricey stuff which appears to be mostly current cutting edge stuff. To be honest, I know nothing about any of the frames I see on his website. I just know that I didn't find any other vintage frames there, so I believe he truly is a little out of his element here.

KonAaron Snake 

LOL @ photogravity.

I saw the thread - I just didn't have anything to add. The comments above, especially by Jet, were right on. It's optimistic, silly pricing and I'd just let the seller sit on it. It's not THAT hard to find an 80s De Rosa frame and, as pretty as the paint on that one is, I know the OP and I know that he'll ride it. It won't look like that after a year anyway.

No disrespect meant to other De Rosa guys, but the 80s SLX De Rosas aren't really my cup of tea - I like the older ones, like the 70s pre-IC lugs for collector/rarity value or the later ones...like the Primatos...which I think are more distinctive and interesting.

If I were selling it, I'd be content with anything over $900ish and thrilled with anything over $1200. As a buyer, I'd be looking to pay under $800. I know what I pay doesn't establish market values, but I've gotten much more interesting De Rosas (at least to me) than this one at under half the value.

MetalPedaler

I guess people who price their items at several hundred percent more than they are worth, must- else why would they do so, and ignore all the reasonable offers and the fact that their item never sells? They must just want attention; or maybe they're saying "Look what I have! Nyah-nyah nya-nyah-nyah! This is the best one of these in the entire world! I picked it up at a yard sale for $25, but I wouldn't sell it for $700, because I know it's true value...and it's not what anyone on this dinky interweb has offered! They all want to screw me!".

Or maybe they're "conceptual artists" and this is their way of entertaining us. (If so, it works!)

Sad thing is: I'd like to have a De Rosa- .....and I was thinking $1500 for a nice, complete bike was too much!

KonAaron Snake 

Or maybe every now and then they sell at prices we wouldn't pay...or they inflate the market around other things the seller is offering...or are used as bait/advertising to get people to look at other things they have for sale.

People asking inflated pricing helps me when i want to sell. I encourage it

tarwheel 

Since you can buy brand new De Rosa Primatos for about $1,500 the last time I checked, $1.5K would seem to be a fair retail price. Sellers like this seem to be looking for suckers, and you know what they say ... there's one born every minute. The prices for vintage frames seems to have gone through the roof on eBay. I don't think many of them are selling for such high prices, but more and more sellers are setting high starting bids or fixed prices rather than letting the auction process determine the value. Part of the problem is that eBay lets sellers relist items for free if they don't sell, so there's little incentive to drop their prices unless they need the money right away.

KonAaron Snake 

New Primatos are that cheap? I assumed they were at least a couple grand since the frames ran $1500 in the early 90s.

MetalPedaler

Fact that the previous owner stripped the parts off of a De Rosa, and never did anything with it- then sold it....says a lot. Probably something wrong with it, that we can't see in the pics...or that the idjit seller doesn't even realize.

cpsqlrwn

I think one of that main reasons for the change in auction style from an open bid listing starting low to a fixed price or best offer auction or an auction with a high opening bid is because a little while back eBay upped the fees. The fees on fixed price auctions are lower than open style auction, definitely enough to make sellers change their listing approach to fixed price. And on open style auctions, setting an opening bid quite high eliminates the need for a reserve (which costs money) and guarantees a certain price level with which to incur the fees. The seller knows they will end up no lower than a certain point after expenses.

gomango

Neo Primatos were available through mail order as low as $1,527 within the last six months.

On a German site whose name escapes me atm.

Total Cycling has them for $1,699 at today's exchange.

gomango

I'm selling my Professional w/o the gruppo.

I'll make more and I take enough cr-- as it is for having DA on it.

Someone wants the whole shebang, it could be arranged.

MetalPedaler

Maybe too, what the guy doesn't realize, is that when people "watch" a BIN listing, it's usually because they have one to sell, and want to see how the one they're watching does.

At least from your dialogue with the guy, he sounds reasonable- not like some insane type who'd say "I know what it's worth! Not a penny less! Mind your own business!". [Most of the times I've communicated with sellers of absurdly over-priced items...thyey turn out to be the latter]

MetalPedaler

Darn...that sounds nice! I'm not seriously in the market at this point...but if I were.....

gomango

Thanks.

It is a very nice bicycle, but I have two and I have gone on a major bike diet.

Sold my last Merckx, so this De Rosa is next in line.

MetalPedaler

You get rid of a De Rosa and a Merckx...... I can only imagine what you must be keeping!

gomango

Believe it or not, my focus on riding this year will be distances and gravel/fire roads.

The road bike supply here is dwindling down to two Chris Kvales, a John Hollands, a Tommasini Sintesi and Super Prestige, a De Rosa Giro 'd Italia and a very nice Colnago Elegant.

From this, the Sintesi will go as well as the Colnago frameset.

I like the rest of them too much to send them away.

They are split between two locations and it means I never have to carry bicycles along when we spend time in northern Minnesota or home.

Edit: Forgot to add my Zullo Sprint.