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  1. #1
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    Grail Cannondale ST1000 but what is that adjustable touring post under the Brooks?

    I've always thought the Cannondale ST touring series bikes were absolute grail finds.

    Heck, you could sell the BLACK NGC982 cantis alone for probably $300, the Brooks for $100, the Superbe Pro pedals for $100, and still have an epic bike on this one.

    If you can find one with the Suntour Superbe Pro components in the rare as hensteeth triple front cage/long cage rear set up, you've just made a Rivendell/Bobish person cry. Why?

    Well you have a classic handmade, rather crafted, aluminum frame with a steel 1" Tange fork and old-school headset. However, you have something lighter, stronger, and stiffer than anything ever to have a Rivendell paint job. I love Rivendell bikes. With a Joe Bell paint job they are veritable art bikes.

    However, a Rivendell has always been just a blatant boat-anchor ripoff of what Cannondale was building as way back as '85-'86.

    Aside from not having a boat anchor steel frame, it was lighter, stiffer at the BB, and had a stronger frame. It was a Bobish cult wetdream before Grant ripped off what this Cannondale was and spent the better part of a decade recrafting these Cannondale ST bikes as his vision.

    My '86 ST800 has front and rear racks that are factory painted to match the gorgeous anthracite metallic paint. The Three water bottle cages are also factory painted in this same anthtracite metallic paint. It has a 1" Tange steel fork. The triple Superbe front derailleur, the special for Cannondale Superbe Pro with the long cage, Superbe Pro pedals with clilps/traps, the Sugino AT crankset (since taken off), and the sealed bearing BB. Came with a Brooks saddle (also since taken off), with an American Classic post. Nitto stem, NGC982 cantilever touring brakes in BLACK (yes, you read that correctly)...blah blah blah. The bike is exactly what Grant fell in love with, but it not his vision. Cannondale was building and selling these long before he decided this was a perfect build/spec. I got lucky in that mine actually came with Phil Wood hubs, after a rebuild. Read that all again. Not just fitment for big tires and racks and fenders, it came with the racks. It came with gorgeous fenders. Fits big wide tires. Continental TopTouring2000s were best back in the day with the beautiful German gumwallls. Even OEM finds are usually dryrotted now though.

    Well I fell across one of these off of Craigslist:

    http://bellingham.craigslist.org/bik/3805813883.html

    Much too small for me. Fit on these has nothing to do with standover folks. If you cant ride 90% of the time in the drops on a touring bike, you have the wrong size frame. A classic Cannondale was built in up to 68.5cm (27") sizes. It is all about fitting the highest handlebar position you can comfortably fit without ending up in too long of a top tube.

    The best part of these bikes is how unbelievably light they were, yet how ridiculously strong they were as well. Strip all the touring accoutrement off and you can actually do a fast club ride on these bikes. Yes you read that correctly. These were absolutely brilliant, epic bikes.

    I've always thought every Cannondale ST deserves to be rebuilt with modern components. Put on classic Campy Racing Triple stuff on one of these and you have something to treasure.

    Well someone has one of these for sale with a touring adjustable saddle. Look at the lever next to the Nitto stem. That adjusts either the fore/aft position of the saddle, or the tilt for the Brooks.

    I've never seen anything like it. Does anyone know anything about this cool touring seatpost?

    [Edit: To the steel is real crowd, don't bother trying to tell me how amazing your beloved steel steed rides. I'd be willing to have your beautiful steel frame sandblasted so that no one could tell whether it was a Cinelli or a Windsor. We'll see if you equally love it still. These aluminum Cannondales are epic not just for their paint (it was decent on the high end bikes) but for what they were and were not. They were strong, and climbed like mountain goats. They were insanely strong frames (no popped lugs here folks) and were incredibly stiff at the BB. You can keep convincing yourself that your boat anchor steel bike is epic. I know better.]
    Last edited by mtnbke; 05-27-13 at 04:17 PM.

  2. #2
    Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race dddd's Avatar
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    You needed to start two posts, one for your seatpost, and the other for the bike.

    I'd be interested in a remote saddle movement, have been thinking about a design for one.

    Got any pictures? Here's my compromise saddle position for rides that are about 40 fast miles.

    And now I guess I know where my swapmeet-sourced Superbe long-cage derailer came from?

    And, btw, I've been using stripped-down steel touring bikes for fast club rides for quite a long time.
    I ride many other bikes too, but these tourers can get the job done with the right gearing.

    Last edited by dddd; 05-27-13 at 04:27 PM.

  3. #3
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    Cannondale CAD 3, mid nineties?, 50 cm c-c, frame only, 1398 gm. Lemond Tourmalet, Reynolds 853, TIG, 51 cm c-c, 1715 gm. That's a 0.7 pound difference. Heavier, true, but not boat anchor heavier. C'dale continues to improve their frames but also consider that True Temper had a frame built for them that came in at about 1000 grams. I assume that it was OX Platimun and tig joints. Makes the CAD 3 sound like a boat anchor, though, doesn't it? ( By the OP's definition.)
    Last edited by busdriver1959; 05-27-13 at 05:09 PM.

  4. #4
    Port Rocket-Sauce's Avatar
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    Another unbiased thread started by mtnbke

  5. #5
    Forum Moderator cb400bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket-Sauce View Post
    Another unbiased thread started by mtnbke
    Yep. I own, and love, my modern Cannondale.

    But, to bash all steel bikes is just nonsense.

  6. #6
    Senior Member pcb's Avatar
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    Against my better judgement I'm feeding a troll, because it's really difficult to let so much misinformation sit there unanswered. Love your C'dale ST-series frames, believe they were epic, that's all good. Be knowing that most everything else just doesn't hold water.

    Lugged/brazed steel frames and fat-tube tig'd aluminum frames are very different animals. Aluminum frames only get stiffer when tubes get fatter, and they only get lighter when tube walls get thinner, and aluminum is much more brittle than steel. There are several ways to define/measure strength, but steel is a more durable material than aluminum. Steel can flex and twist and stretch mightily without failing; aluminum very easily cracks and fails catastrophically. Thin-wall/fat-tube tig'd alum C'dale were stiffer and lighter than many contemporary steel frames, but they were also much more likely to develop stress cracks from normal use. C'dale had to add stickers to their bikes warning owners to inspect frame for cracks before riding; shop rats nicknamed them "Crack-n-fail." So C'dale frames weren't "insanely strong" or more durable than steel. Early C'dale frames weren't all that light, and lighter steel frames pretty quickly narrowed the gap, so your "boat anchor" claim is pretty far offbase as well.

    Grant's first bikes were inspired by lugged steel sport/sport-touring bikes, mostly built pre-'85, mostly from the '70s. Before C'dale existed. The first Rivs weren't touring bikes at all, had lots in common with a Fuji America, Miyata 710, Peugeot PX-10, Schwinn Paramount P-15, etc, and almost nothing in common with anything Cannondale. Grant was simply looking to build a lugged steel frame with room for fatter tires, a more upright riding position and a smoother ride. Rivs were steel, not aluminum, they were lugged, not welded, they were sport-touring, not touring/racing, they were built in small numbers by experienced bicycle framebuilders---aside from being bicycles they had almost nothing in common with C'dale.

    Cannondales were built in large numbers in a factory by good welders. Welders who were welders, not bicycle-building craftsmen. I worked with C'dale back in the day, I toured their factory, talked with them about how they had trouble hiring enough welders from the local vocational schools to keep up with production. They were factory bikes, plain and simple. Nothing wrong with that, but they were never "handmade, rather crafted." Rivs were built by real bicycle framebuilders, in small lots, and many of the first Rivs were custom. I guarantee you more time, effort and experience went into a Riv than any C'dale frame.

    BTW, though Riv never ripped off C'dale, Gary Klein thought C'dale ripped him off, enough to sue them for patent infringement. Gary lost his case, mostly because his patent was ridiculously broad (any alum frame under xlbs w/tube diameters greater than y infringed), but C'dale had very little in the way of original ideas or technology when they started. What quasi-original designs they had (like small rear wheel ATBs, "borrowed" from Charlie Cunningham, all the Pong nonsense) didn't work out very well.

    Sorry about all this, gang---that's the end of my rant. All bikes are good, riding bikes is better, and all bicycles deserve love. I never try to diminish things other folks like, but misinformation needs to be addressed.



    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbke View Post

    ...a classic handmade, rather crafted, aluminum frame...lighter, stronger, and stiffer than anything ever to have a Rivendell paint job...a Rivendell has always been just a blatant boat-anchor ripoff of what Cannondale was building as way back as '85-'86...Aside from not having a boat anchor steel frame...had a stronger frame. It was a Bobish cult wetdream before Grant ripped off what this Cannondale was and spent the better part of a decade recrafting these Cannondale ST bikes as his vision...To the steel is real crowd, don't bother trying to tell me how amazing your beloved steel steed rides. I'd be willing to have your beautiful steel frame sandblasted so that no one could tell whether it was a Cinelli or a Windsor. We'll see if you equally love it still...they were insanely strong frames (no popped lugs here folks)...You can keep convincing yourself that your boat anchor steel bike is epic. I know better.

  7. #7
    Bianchi Goddess Bianchigirll's Avatar
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    I believe the seatpost is/was a triathlete thing.

    Nice looking bike though.



    It will make a nice commuter for dodging traffic while the Bailey Bridge gets put up.
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  8. #8
    Padovano Mike552's Avatar
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    Road bike weight under 25lbs should only be a concern for athletes with less than 8% body fat who don't care about how enjoyable or comfortable their cycling experience is. I've owned 2 road C-dales, a R1000 and R2000, and I can tell you after selling them that I will never buy one again. They're fine bikes for a pro racer who competes, but that just ain't me. I suspect that a lot of C&V folks can relate with what I am saying. I'll take my 20lb Panasonic DX5000 or 20lb Univega Gran Premio over a 18lb C-dale any day of the week, thanks.
    *1987 Panasonic DX-5000/STI-9 *1983 Univega Gran Premio/STI-9 *1991 Bridgestone MB-2/Suntour XC Pro

  9. #9
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    The opening spiel seems familiar....

  10. #10
    iab
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbke View Post
    You can keep convincing yourself that your boat anchor steel bike is epic.
    I have a steel bike that is 7.0kg. It wouldn't take much to get below the 6.9kg UCI limit.

    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbke View Post
    I know better.]
    Incorrect.

  11. #11
    Goes to 11. striknein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagrom_ View Post
    I actually just run calipers. Levers are for scrubs.

  12. #12
    Senior Member fender1's Avatar
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    ep·ic
    /ˈepik/
    Noun
    A long poem, typically derived from oral tradition, narrating the deeds and adventures of heroic or legendary figures or the history of...
    Adjective
    Of, relating to, or characteristic of an epic or epics.
    Synonyms
    noun. epos - epopee
    adjective. heroic - epical

    For your next epic rant.

  13. #13
    Gouge Away kaliayev's Avatar
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    I've got nothing against aluminium frames, own one and have had a few others. The couple of C'dales I've been on left me very unimpressed (CAD3 and CAAD9) and would never consider buying one. Their touring frames might be better.
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  14. #14
    Freewheel Medic pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
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    Oh how we all miss mtbbke and his unflappable affection for Cannondale.

    Maybe he could help I.D. the early '90s T400 I brought home from the Church Yard Sale last week?
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
    Oh how we all miss mtbbke and his unflappable affection for Cannondale.

    Maybe he could help I.D. the early '90s T400 I brought home from the Church Yard Sale last week?
    I'd like to see photos if you'd post them in a 'clean' thread.

    Brad

  16. #16
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    Although many manufacturers have built wonderful bikes in every niche of bicycling, there never was and never will be The World's Greatest Bicycle, but rather individual's preferences which can sometimes become annoying. Not something unique to cycling either.

    Many know that I prefer Cannondales, but I didn't disown my children because they prefered something else.

    Brad

  17. #17
    Senior Member Chombi's Avatar
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    What did steel frames ever do to the guy to feel that way about them??.......
    I have mostly CF C&V bikes now but still have the Peugeot steel bike I bought back in 84 and will never part with it because It rides so nice and is certainly not a boat anchor at 19.15 pounds......which is I think where many C&V C'dales fall, weight-wise.

  18. #18
    Senior Member shoota's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chombi View Post
    It rides so nice and is certainly not a boat anchor at 19.15 pounds......which is I think where many C&V C'dales fall, weight-wise.
    I wish
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  19. #19
    NT... Big Difference...
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    Rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell. Rivendell rivendell. Rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell, rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell. Rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell, rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell, rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell. Rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell; rivendell rivendell rivendell, rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell.

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    Rivendell.
    *Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Man Of The Year" Award*

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  20. #20
    one life on two wheels cobrabyte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbke View Post
    blah blah blah, arrogant remark about other riders' preferences, blah blah blah, stating opinion as fact, blah blah blah, you're all sheep, thank God I'm here to reveal the truth to you, blah blah blah, something about aluminium being light and strong, speculative remark about steel not having the same qualities...
    Wow, thank goodness you came along to set the record straight, mtnbke...how would we get along without you?

  21. #21
    Cisalpinist Italuminium's Avatar
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    Eheu! the Westboro Aluminist! I'm a moderate Italuminian myself and feel uncomfortable by your interpretation of the metallic revelation. That said, nice bike. I'm actually somewhat jealous, I'd love to have a touring find like that with racks and all. I'd swap out the post though.
    Pass the Dutchie on the non-drive side.
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  22. #22
    Senior Member Ronno6's Avatar
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    THE absolute Grail find is a 27" T1000 from '93 or '94. Cantilevers and 135mm rear dropout spacing!
    NICE !!!
    Now, can anyone put an Imron or other paint code# to the Cannondale color "Anthracite"............???

  23. #23
    zungguzungguguzungguzeng Catnap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
    Rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell. Rivendell rivendell. Rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell, rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell. Rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell, rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell, rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell. Rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell; rivendell rivendell rivendell, rivendell rivendell rivendell rivendell.

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    Rivendell.

    stop it!!!! ....you're turning me on.
    Quote Originally Posted by indiglow View Post
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  24. #24
    Get off my lawn! Velognome's Avatar
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    [QUOTE
    Mtnbke
    [Edit: To the steel is real crowd, don't bother trying to tell me how amazing your beloved steel steed rides. I'd be willing to have your beautiful steel frame sandblasted so that no one could tell whether it was a Cinelli or a Windsor. We'll see if you equally love it still. These aluminum Cannondales are epic not just for their paint (it was decent on the high end bikes) but for what they were and were not. They were strong, and climbed like mountain goats. They were insanely strong frames (no popped lugs here folks) and were incredibly stiff at the BB. You can keep convincing yourself that your boat anchor steel bike is epic. I know better.]
    An open mouth removes all doubt

  25. #25
    RFC
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    Not to add to the trolliness, but, hands down, I would take my 90 ST600 over any steel touring bike I've owned, including a Miyata 1000 and a RB-T. Of course, others may disagree. But my RB-T no longer gets ridden and may go on the block soon.

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