rocks in head 

Hi all,
I rescued this 1980 Soma (made in Japan) road bike from the dumptser a few years ago, and spent a fair bit at a LBS to get it overhauled. A fair bit of that went into the wheels - Mavic Open Sport laced to Quando hubs. The rest went to new brake cables & housing, pads, clips, straps (in storage b/c I can now only ride clipless).

I'm considering returning to authentic vintage parts. This will consist of finding a new Shimano 600ex (arabesque) front deraileur, because the LBS lost the one that came on it. Also, the original wheels got scrapped by the store, and I cannot for the life of me remember what they were... french tubulars, I think, maybe Rigida?... but I don't remember. I don't think the hubs were shimano.

So... it appears that there are vintage shimano hubs that may have gone with the Arabesque gruppo, and I want to keep clinchers on this - I don't want to deal with lace-ups. What are my c. 1980 options for 700c clincher rims, preferably made in Japan?

Also, it appears that this is made of Tange Champion tubing - how does this rate on the steel frame rating? I don't see anything about being double-butted, so it's probably straight gauge.

RaleighSport

First thing that comes to mind is Suzue sealed cartridge hubs laced to araya red labels, you'll get lots more answers though I'm sure.

Catnap 

hubs: Suzue / Sunshine / Sansin or SunTour or Shimano

rims: Araya

RaleighSport's suggestion is excellent

rhm

The rims would be by Araya or Ukai. They would have a rounded look, similar to tubular rims. They would not have the diagonal facet common on today's rims.

A lot of bikes of that vintage came with 27" wheels, which a lot of us now try to avoid, so those rims are a bit easier to find.

Sunshine Pro-Am hubs were very nice.

rocks in head 

Ok - so having the rest of the drive line and brakes be Shimano Arabesque doesn't necessarily mean the hubs need to be, then?

It rides well on the quando/mavic getup, but I'd enjoy it more if I were able to get it back to period-correct(ish) condition.

photogravity

It only needs to have matching hubs if you are a groupset snob. Groupsets are overrated. in my opinion.

rhm

Well, that depends if the manufacturer had a deal with Shimano to put all Shimano components on their bikes, which is not at all unlikely. You'd have to look at original bikes (not necessarily the same model as yours) and catalogs if you can find them. Most Japanese manufacturers of that period used either all Shimano or no Shimano, so my guess is all Shimano if available.

Don't listen to him. He's an anglophile. If the English had invented groupsets, he'd be singing their praises.

bikemig 

How about these wheels, sealed suzue hubs laced onto ukai double walled rims? https://store.somafab.com/surxctowh.html

Not a bad price for a nice set of wheels.

rocks in head 

The current Soma bike company has no relation whatsoever to the vintage Soma, other than the name. Those are a nice set of wheels, but they take a modern cassette, not the threaded 6-speed one I need... for that I can stay with my current setup.

I've gleaned a little from sheldonbrown.com and various other places that Soma was a store brand by a New York bike store, that contracted with a factory in Japan (which definitely also made other brands, not sure which) to produce the bicycles, which were then imported. The Competition was apparently the 2nd from the top-of the line, with Professional being above it, not sure what the other models were.

There are a few sets on ebay that I've added to the watch list - Araya 700 wheel set shimano 600 hubs (175ish with shipping), and Shimano vintage road bike wheels 700c - with Ukai rims (130is with shipping)...


P.S. I did post a thread on this bike back in 2008 when I first got it. I've taken a break from cycling in the last few years and am getting back into it. https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...from-the-trash
I've been riding this to work recently - 50 miles or so quite recently... I hope to get out on some longer rides soon but that saddle was never broken in.

Chombi

It's funny, you'd think that there would have been more rim manufacturers from Japan selling rims to the world back then, I can only really think of Araya and Ukai for Japanese 80's rims.
There must have been other Japanese made quality rims that were not sold outside of Japan. A smaller manufacturer made quality rim that was for the domestic only market would be kewhl, if a set could be located...
Did Shimano make rims back then too?

ThermionicScott 

Araya 20A's are always nice.

https://www.araya-kk.co.jp/rim/archive/1980.htm

Cougrrcj

My recently bought '84 Univega has those Araya 20A rims - in 27x1"

For a modern equivalent, you might try Sun M13II rims. Niagra Cycle has them built with q/r sealed hubs and stainless spokes for ~ $130/wheelset. Here's a link to the rear wheel: rear wheel linky here The front is somewhere on there as well... Got it - front wheel linky here

eschlwc

i'd go the less expensive route and pickup a s600 hubset, new 700c sun m13ii's (both on ebay), and build 'em up myself with sapim db spokes ($0.40/ea from danscomp) with a little help from sheldon's wheelbuilding page. flip the bike over and build them in the frame. might take a newby a day or two, but it would be fun and highly rewarding. it's easy to measure the hubs for spoke length and those sun rims are commonly known as 610mm erd.

kroozer 

So what is the hierarchy of vintage Japanese hubs, anyway? I am familiar with some of them but have no idea how they compare. I understand Sansin/Sunshine is the same manufacturer and they also made the Suntour-branded hubs. The Shimano line-up is much clearer.
Also, there don't seem to be very many high quality vintage Japanese clincher rims around, and when they show up they are expensive.

dddd

Hubs:
Many if not most 600 arabesque gruppo'd bikes came with Shimano Model 60 hubs, not 600.
These seem to be an OEM choice, perhaps not shown in their consumer literature?
The finish on these is not polished at all, but they do have oil port clips around the center barrel.
The cassette style of these were often problematic, as with the 600 version, since the crimping would fail where the modern ones use a hollow bolt to better hold the freehub body against the hubshell spline.

Rims:
I wouldn't choose 27" because of the limited tire selection. I'm not thrilled with the Pasela look which is more like a hybrid bike's tires imo, and there are no other top-quality choices anymore.
The early Japanese doublewalled rims like Model 20 frequently have a huge amount of rim thickness variation near the seam, due to the pressed-in sleeve that joins the rim joint. I've had to deal with smoothing the braking action caused by this and it isn't pretty.
Modern rims are in all ways better, including the all-important tire retention.

Frankly, I think that a 22mm wide 700c rim will be your best choice, unless your current rims are working well, which they probably are. There are some very plain-looking, 22mm singlewall 700c rims that are my first choice for such applications because I can get them very cheaply and they don't look like modern, deeper-section rims. Some if not most of these were spec'd for hybrids and tourers, so hold up well to even off-road riding if tensioned well. The extra width will improve the ride and allow lower tire pressure and longer tire life.

3speedslow

My recently acquired 83 Sportour Univega came with a very nice set of red label Araya 20A 27 x 1. Hubs are Sunshine with QR back and front.

Short answer: Araya

uncle uncle

Araya rims with Sunshine or Suzue hubs were ubiquitous during the era and worked better than their association with lower to mid level bikes would seem to belie. I am in agreement with the others that suggested these above.

RobbieTunes

+1 I traded roccobike an Ironman frame and parts for a Soma like that, 600 Arabesque, and I think it had Sansin hubs laced to Araya 27x1's.

3alarmer 

...........ironically, I have these photos because I wanted to build wheels from the hubs
with rims that would take wider tires and take more in the way of abuse....

rocks in head 

So, it sounds like the consensus is that, if this bike didn't come with tubulars from the dealer, it most likely would have had Araya 27x1 rims and even shot of non-Shimano hubs... Sansin, Suzue, Sunshine, SunTour.

It's definitely been an interesting conversation about good vintage Japanese wheels & hubs. Thanks also to the generous offers from members here.

It looks like I have two choices to make - 700c vs 27... I think I want to keep at 700c because of tire selection, like dddd pointed out.
Also, I can choose to go Shimano or other, probably Sanisn. I don't think that either way will affect the value of the bike, as the rest is as original as I could keep it while still being ride-able.

So... all this great advice and I'm still undecided!

T-Mar

The subject bicycle is a circa 1980 Soma Competition. The OEM wheel specs per the catalog were Shimano 600EX hubs laced to 27" x 1-1/8" Araya aluminum rims. The model of rim is not specified but Araya only had five 27" alumnum rims in 1980. The two aero ADX models can be eliminated based on the photo. The two 16A rims can be eliminated, as they were 1-1/4" rims. That leaves the 20A.

FYI, while the literature does not state whether it is freewheel or cassette, the specified cogs indicate a cassette.

You'll have to choose if you want period correct (27") or selection (700C). FYI, OEM tires were IRC Roadlite 27 x 1:.

During this era the Competition was 3rd in the product line, not 2nd as previously suggested.

The Tange tubeset is not specified but it is listed as double butted and the literature shows a Tange #2 decal. This was 3rd in Tange's line-up at the time. It was very common on upper mid-range and lower upper end, Japanese bicycles. Tubing gauge is roughly equivalent to Columbus SL (i.e 0.6mm main tubes with 0.9mm butts).

I'd appreciate the serial number for my database. TIA.

rocks in head 

Wow! I'm going to have to print this and keep it with the bike! Do you have a picture of the catalog page?
There is no Tange #2 decal, just says Tange, butted. If it were double butted I'd expect that it would say it on the sticker. I will take some pictures of all of the identifying marks when I get home this evening, and will let you know the serial number.

rocks in head 

Also, I'm seriously considering these, still the Shimano 600EX hubs laced to Araya 20a rims, but 700 instead of 27... very close but not catalog perfect. I'm not hanging this on a wall, nor will it win beauty contests, but I sort of feel that the modern componentry just doesn't... fit it.

These may be from the mid 80's instead of '80-'81... not sure
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Araya-700-Wh...item257f077056

T-Mar

During this era the Tange decals typically just said "butted tubes" not "double butted". The decal in the literature has the black oval with red border that indicates Tange No. 2.

rocks in head 

Yep, that's the one. In the original "as found in dumpster" thread I can see the black oval with red border, underneath which reads "Chrome Molyboen Steel" - "Butted Tubes" - "Tange Industries Ltd"



I've removed the pump holder, will take a better photo tonight.

I'm relatively certain that there's no place anywhere that it says #2.