cb400bill

Received this from a friend today. He remembers purchasing it (used) in Chicago in the late 70's or early 80's.

I can find no serial number anywhere.

Huret derailleurs and shifters
Weinmann levers
Dia-Compe hoods
Bertola calipers
Fiamme Montreal stem
Giorgia bars and headset
Visson rims and QR's
Real Competicion Red Label rims
SR pedals
Lapize clips and straps

Unknown bottom bracket
Unknown cottered crankset

Here are some pics.

cb400bill

More pics

Road Fan

The lugs and headset suggest '60s midrange Italian - might or might not be better tubing. The South American parts say, well, South America. Some gas pipe from that period were quite nice riders, such as the UO-8s and (just ask Auch!) the contemporary Atalas. Plus I can't see cottered cranks having been in the Chicago new bike market in the late '70s - my recollection from those days is even low-enders had swaged aluminum cotterless cranks.

Basically, I think it's probably brought up from South America, bought new there in the '60s.

How's that for a semi-wild guess?

cb400bill

Ken, I should have said he purchased it used. I also should have noted that the chainstays are oval, and not pinched, for rear tire clearance.

juvela

this looks like an Argentine machne. that nation has a large population of Italian heritage and the bicycles produced have a decidedly Italian look. the frame's lugs are Agrati "AM" model or a copy thereof.

another Argentine producer of very Italian looking machines is/was Saavedra. this example has some similarites to their products although not produced by them. sorry, cannot suggest a brand name for your bicycle.

cb400bill

juvela, thank you for the information. I will check into those companies. There isn't much info out on the web about Argentine bikes.

Road Fan

Bill, why did you mention the oval stays? Is that a national characteristic?

cb400bill

Ken, I only mentioned them as I thought it may be a feature that could be unique enough to help ID the frame.

sailorbenjamin

I had a juvenile sized rod brake roadster with 24" wheels from Argentina once. Lotta help, I know.

juvela

i have forwarded your pictures on to an Argentine friend to see if he can recognise anything there. alas, he is not a bicycle person. will post again if i receive any information from him.

this is an interesting puzzle!

T-Mar

While it's another very long shot, given the mix of Argentine and Italian parts, it could be a mid to late 1970s Legnano, as they set up a factory in Argentina for the manufacture of bicycles, mopeds and light motorcycles. That's the only Argentine brand that I'm aware of. The only only other South American brands I'm aware of that made it into the USA during this period were the Mundo/Caloi bicycles from Brazil.

cb400bill

Thank you!

cb400bill

Well, Legnano isn't a brand I would have thought this could be. Because I already own a 60's Legnano, it would be fun addition to have another one.

juvela

thank you for this interesting information regarding Legnano in Argentina T-Mar. do you know a luanch date; was it prior to or after the murder of Sig. Bozzi?

there is another marque manufactured just on the other side of the River Platte in Uruguay; it is called Ildefonso Soler.

here are two examples found on the Uruguay equivalent of ebay:

https://articulo.mercadolibre.com.uy/...e-original-_JM

https://paysandu.quebarato.com.uy/pay...s__793B37.html

back to the matter at hand...

here is the bicycle section of the Argentine equivalent of ebay. it might be rewarding to explore there a bit to see if anything similar to the machine under discussion can be found:


https://listado.mercadolibre.com.ar/d...as-y-ciclismo/

one of several new names to me on the subject cycle was that of the hubs: Visson.

i tried a search for this name and found a bicycle with it. this may be a possible candidate for an identity. am making no claims.


https://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/...uen-estado-_JM

juvela

hello cb400bill,

i heard back from my friend in AR in about half a day. he sent some photos of a Bianchi midline road machine which looked to date from ~1975 and a link to a dealer of new machines.

sadly, nothing there of much assistance.

perhaps an exploration of the auction site i sent above will prove of interest...

cb400bill

Thank you once again. Lots of good leads to investigate.

By the way, are you from Argentina?

juvela

not from AR. have lived me whole life in North America and am little traveled. do happen to have a university degree in geography so am supposed to know where things are... ;^\ [well sometimes]

juvela

have now heard back again from my amigo in Buenos Aires. he sends this information on the Visson Company:

Metalurgica Visson S.A.
Nolting 3550, (1702) Ciudadela,
Buenos Aires

Phone (54-011) 4653-0148

FAX (54-011) 4656-1836

he reports they do not have a web site.

T-Mar

While I don't have a definitive answer, from what I've been able to piece together, it appears to have been well prior to Bozzi's assassination. The origins of Legnano Argentina involve the emigration of two Italian motorcycle designers, Rafaldi and Fattorini, to Argentina in 1949. In conjunction with some local backers they they started motorcycle manufacturing. In 1957 they introduced the Tehuelche motorcyle which was produced until 1964. Sometime during this period, they acquired the Argentine rights to Legnano, importing Legnano motorcyles and manufacturing the Tehuelche under the Legnano name. I have yet to determine when bicycle manufacturing commenced but it's a logical diversification. I have also not determined if the Legnano bicycles were just manufactured under license or if Legnano ended up taking control. The latter is a distnict possibility as Rafaldi and Fattorini did leave and create a new company. Regardless, there was manufacturing under the Legnano brand name, in Argentina, during Bozzi's lifetime.

cb400bill

The depth of knowledge that T-Mar shares with this forum is unending. I had no clue that Legnano built bikes anywhere but in Italy.