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-   -   Dropouts - An Illustrated Bicycle Dropout Guide (http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/899456-dropouts-illustrated-bicycle-dropout-guide.html)

fender1 09-05-13 08:44 PM

Well, I hope I am wrong.

thinktubes 09-05-13 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seely (Post 16036022)
I also suggest you become more familiar with Kickstarter and it's projects before you commit to backing. You are supporting a project that someone (in this case me) is doing in addition to their real life. 87% of Kickstarters projects are late, shipping 6-12 months behind schedule. Insulting the creator does not help them feel any better about what they are putting out. Patience and encouragement are appreciated. The deadline I set was very attainable when I initially kicked-off the campaign. At that time, I had several drawings in hand and was hoping that I could just get to 45. I'm now about to send out a 100 page book. So yes, this project snowballed, but I think it will be well worth it.

I must have missed the part where you keep your investors in the dark and fail to communicate.

repechage 09-05-13 09:24 PM

More than half of kickstarter projects are 6-12 months late if you believe the message.
Possibly a comment on kickstarter as much as the potential author.
I think it is time guys to request a refund if that is possible.

seely 09-05-13 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinktubes (Post 16036190)
I must have missed the part where you keep your investors in the dark and fail to communicate.

No kidding.

mkeller234 09-06-13 02:23 AM

Hmm.... Call me dumb, but i'm going to stick it out. I know first hand the feeling of putting things off. I do tend to believe his story too. I think the lack of communication is the real issue.

Drillium Dude 09-06-13 03:04 AM

You know when your dad told you way, way back that if you ever had to borrow something, return it as soon as possible and under no circumstances should the person from which you borrowed have to ask for it back? Remember?

This sorta feels like that.

Call it a pet peeve of mine, or what have you, but if things aren't working out to the planned timeframe, etc, there's worse things a person can do than keep the faith by keeping the faithful informed. Dropping off the face of the earth is always going to arouse suspicion. I'm sure the project initiator would feel the same if he were wearing the investors' shoes. Don't wait for questions, provide answers before the question is asked. Proactive invites much more understanding than reactive.

DD

jeirvine 09-06-13 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drillium Dude (Post 16036584)
Call it a pet peeve of mine, or what have you, but if things aren't working out to the planned timeframe, etc, there's worse things a person can do than keep the faith by keeping the faithful informed. Dropping off the face of the earth is always going to arouse suspicion.

Which makes your continuing oversight of the Box o' Crap shenanigans all the more admirable. We live in a golden age of communication folks: how hard is it to drop an email?

rootboy 09-06-13 06:38 AM

caveat emptor

Pars 09-06-13 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drillium Dude (Post 16036584)
You know when your dad told you way, way back that if you ever had to borrow something, return it as soon as possible and under no circumstances should the person from which you borrowed have to ask for it back? Remember?

This sorta feels like that.

Call it a pet peeve of mine, or what have you, but if things aren't working out to the planned timeframe, etc, there's worse things a person can do than keep the faith by keeping the faithful informed. Dropping off the face of the earth is always going to arouse suspicion. I'm sure the project initiator would feel the same if he were wearing the investors' shoes. Don't wait for questions, provide answers before the question is asked. Proactive invites much more understanding than reactive.

DD

^ This

Catnap 09-06-13 08:32 AM

i agree with complaints about the lack of communication, but beyond that I appreciate his honesty and determination to get the book done. just wish that email had come sooner and to my inbox as opposed to finding it here.

anyways, in terms of waiting I'm good to go for another 2-3 months. i think it's going to be a cool book and worth the wait.

RobbieTunes 09-06-13 09:08 AM

I got an update directly from Kickstarter. I never considered it a purchase, but simply a cheap investment with no guarantee of return, like many Kickstarter projects. When it gets here, it gets here. I'm too busy to read it, anyway. I've given away more than my investment in parts, also to BF members, so at least in this situation, I'll eventually have a book and poster.

cyclotoine 09-06-13 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drillium Dude (Post 16036584)
You know when your dad told you way, way back that if you ever had to borrow something, return it as soon as possible and under no circumstances should the person from which you borrowed have to ask for it back? Remember?

This sorta feels like that.

Call it a pet peeve of mine, or what have you, but if things aren't working out to the planned timeframe, etc, there's worse things a person can do than keep the faith by keeping the faithful informed. Dropping off the face of the earth is always going to arouse suspicion. I'm sure the project initiator would feel the same if he were wearing the investors' shoes. Don't wait for questions, provide answers before the question is asked. Proactive invites much more understanding than reactive.

DD

I don't remember him saying that specifically but he instilled this value in me. Also you should improve it in some way. I borrowed a friend's chainsay last weekend and it has a leaky chain oil plug, so I got him a new one and sharpened his chain when I was done.

I borrow a friend's mountain bike once to take a lady friend I was courting for a ride. I tuned it up and put new brake pads on it. He was stoked.

Unfortunately, and I am going to come off as a curmudgeon here, everyone, and I mean every single person I have ever met, seems to have lower standard than I do in this regard. I do not lend my bikes out as a rule. Honestly, I have had to lower my standards because what is life without friends? I had some friends ask to borrow a bike for a friend they had visiting last weekend. My answer was no, sorry on that front. I just won't do it with something I care that much about and am that particular about and that I put that much time and fuss into. I felt like a jerk for saying no. Everyone around here lends their stuff. their cars, their boats, their skis, their bikes. Sure I will lend someone a tool or my beater skis, or a piece of clothing or a lawnmower. But a bike? No, unless you are a friend and I am riding with you, I simply know, for a fact, it won't get the care and respect I have for it.

There is a saying, care for it as if it were your own. Everyone I know cares for their own possessions less than I care for mine. No body knows how to do maintenance anymore at all on anything. Half of my friends are riding around on mountain bikes with blow seals and scored stanchions on their forks because they are too cheep to pay for annual maintenance. They ride their bikes into the ground sell it to some sucker and then buy a new one. The irony is they don't even know that they are sucker punching the buyer.

I am afraid and saddened that that mentality has more or less been lost today. People are nice, yes, but they don't give a $h!t about $h!t.

iab 09-06-13 05:51 PM

^^^
Oscar Wilde would say you are describing a cynic, knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing,

He would be correct.

sigh.

mkeller234 09-06-13 07:28 PM

I think I have lived both sides of that life. In my youth I knew very little about maintenance, everything got replaced. Once we bought our first house I learned a lot. Old houses havea way of doing that... You just cannot replace some of the nice old fixtures, you have to restore the old ones. I've learned that quality items are often worth the initial investment. Maintaining a quality tool or product is so smart for countless reasons.

I learned some of the values cylcotoine mentioned from camping with my mother. We ALWAYS had to leave sites cleaner than we found them. My mom would send us out to clean any trash that careless campers lef behind. I still do that to this day. We went hiking and my arms were loaded to the brim with litter

mkeller234 09-24-13 07:46 PM

Can anyone copy the kickstarter updates into this thread? For whatever reason, I'm still listed as a backer, but I can't read the updates.

seely 09-24-13 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkeller234 (Post 16100941)
Can anyone copy the kickstarter updates into this thread? For whatever reason, I'm still listed as a backer, but I can't read the updates.

I posted the latest one a few weeks ago, should still be in the thread there. No notifications of updates since.

randyjawa 09-25-13 03:37 AM

The whole idea has caused me to be wary right from the start.

I challenged the fellow in a personal email. He was good enough to get back to me with a reasonable explanation. After that, I supported his intentions in a previous Bike Forum thread. For my support, though I did not ask for it, he promised me a book. However...

No book so far. He claims to be too busy to get in touch with his backers for a project status update. He seemed to have plenty of time to hook up when he was seeking donations.

Scam? I don't know but I do know this - I, for one, would be very skeptical about buying something that I knew did not exist. It would appear that those who did buy, got exactly what was offered at the time - nothing.

I have been keeping my eye on this situation ever since day one. I am not impressed! I do, however, hope that this is, indeed, a situation of "I had no idea of how much work or time it would take". We'll see.

Soylent 09-27-13 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randyjawa (Post 16101585)
I do, however, hope that this is, indeed, a situation of "I had no idea of how much work or time it would take". We'll see.

It does seem like he got in way over his head. He may be a bit embarrassed too. Communication, just a little update every few weeks, would have made a big difference. I don't get any updates as I donated before I had a Kickstarter account. Hope he has all the email addresses. I'll wait it out because if this book materializes, it will be quite a book.

RobbieTunes 09-30-13 06:44 AM

Yep, late project, plenty of complaining.
Entitlement mentality run amok for a minor investment.
Plenty of good points made.

Sure, the project is overdue.
Sure, you paid your whopping huge investments. So did I.
The total was less than 12 cups of overpriced coffee in placenta-weave cups.

I've paid far more to enter one lousy century that had no t-shirt, ran out of food and had little support.

Have you had to pay an automotive repair shop lately?
How about an HVAC repair service? Were you charged $100-$200/lb for freon that costs $15/lb?
How much graft and corruption is in that electric bill/construction cost/new car price to pay off union bosses and build union halls?
How much of that medical bill goes to the service you were provided, and how much for people that game the system?
How much of your phone bill goes to pay for free cell phones?
How much of your grocery bill goes to pay for slip'n'fall scams?
How much of everything you buy goes to pay fraudulent disability/work comp/liability claims?
How much of your car insurance goes to pay fraudulent claims?
What did you pay for that blanket in the hospital? (that they kept)
How much of Hurricane Sandy's utility repair was delayed so overtime could be paid, instead of using crews that were turned away?
What about college is 10x better than it was 25 years ago? Other than tuition being 10x more?
The public debt load for every legal US citizen, children included, has risen $43,000, maybe more, in the last 10 years.

Trust is violated in huge ways, every single day, dozens of times, to each of us.
And no one apologizes or attempts to make it right.

And how many of all those people above are
1) making money off of you? The book guy isn't going to make a dime.
2) apologizing for the inconvenience? He has. No one feels worse about it.

Please do me a favor. If you request a refund, cc: me
I may wish to make it up, get your book, poster, or both; and make a better decision to trade/buy/sell with you.

This is no biggie. Unfortunate, but no biggie.

Feed your kids, shelter your family, do the best you can.
This is minor feces, and it will work itself out.

Soylent 10-14-13 06:50 PM

Good news:

Quote:

The pieces are coming together!
Comment
4 likes
The project has been forging ahead and today's update is a positive one. After finishing up the poster and several test prints later, I'm happy with it and picked up a box of the final product from the local printer today. So the posters are done, and awaiting books to be paired and shipped. To all the poster-only backers, your items will ship at the same time as the poster+book backers. After excuses and issues from my technical work guy which delayed the project by months, I FINALLY got ahold of the files for everything that had been done up to that point and reached out to other folks capable of helping me finish in a more timely fashion. My good friend Katie S., the designer responsible for the cover page on my Kickstarter, came through for me and we sat down over coffee to knock it out. A couple of hours later, we (mostly she) had assembled a formatted and proofed pdf copy. As we speak, USPS is bringing me a hard copy in the next day or two for me to approve, and then the final books will be ordered and sent. Barring any shipping issues, I can have those printed and shipped to me in the next couple of days. Again, I thank everyone for their patience with this project!

repechage 10-14-13 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soylent (Post 16161120)
Good news:

Why not ship the posters to those who have paid for them?

iab 10-15-13 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by repechage (Post 16161497)
Why not ship the posters to those who have paid for them?

Easier to ship all at once. Don't want the book people to feel slighted. Only a couple extra days. Bad luck to ship posters when Mercury is rising. Who knows.

RobbieTunes 10-15-13 06:07 AM

I'm going to drive over and get mine, perhaps I can post a preview...

Catnap 10-15-13 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobbieTunes (Post 16161986)
I'm going to drive over and get mine, perhaps I can post a preview...

please do! i can't wait to see how it turned out.

Otto Rax 10-23-13 06:46 PM

Stumbled across this thread and thought it was due a reply on a here.

I really can't blame any of you for feeling how you do. Again, I'm sorry. Some called it entitlement, some called it just plain lack of communication. I like to think it's just the latter, and if you knew me you'd probably agree. that is neither here nor there though.

Everyone seems to be caught up - thank you Robbie for handling the reposting of updates. I'll save the excuses, but it has certainly come together. I just got the 2nd proof copy back - wrong cover, wrong isbn, wrong paper, wrong page breaks, and wrong screening on the files. All the fault of the printer, but I met with a new, local printer on Monday and she assured me they could do it quicker and properly compared to the other.

I didn't realize so many of the contributors were BFers, otherwise I'd be more diligent with posting on here too. Real names (all I have on Kickstarter) don't align with everyone's aliases on here so I had no way of knowing. My C&V habit has taken a back seat in my current state-of-life, so I haven't frequented this board as much.

If you've moved, don't worry. I don't even have addresses, as Kickstarter has a procedure for getting those when the project is ready to ship. If you've contributed, you'll be getting an email very soon requesting your shipping info.

The update about shipping posters was a blanket update, so if you're reading this, got only a poster, and are itching for it immediately, please let me know and I'll be happy to ship yours out. PMs on here aren't the best, Kickstarter PMs aren't the best, nor is emailing through them. If you want to contact me, please use paxpaxpax [at] gmail [dot] com and I'll get this done. Of course, as I've stated earlier, if you'd simply like your money back, I can arrange that as well. It isn't in the spirit of this endeavour to be that unwilling, but everyone is different.

I think the nail was hit on the head when someone stated I had bitten off more than I could chew. I'd never published a book or set foot in a professional printshop before I embarked on this, and the project ballooned as I got more ambitious in an attempt to be comprehensive. I had only the best intentions of putting out a fantastic, very complete, book.

If you live local to Raleigh, NC - hit me up! I'm happy to get together, buy you a coffee, and hand over your poster. Heck, I'll even show you where the book stands (and I hope you'll be impressed).

Thanks again for everyone's patience in this matter. It has been a huge project that has netted me many lessons.

-Bryan Paxton


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