no_safe_HAVEN

Ok so I'm starting a "resto-mod" project with an unknown 531 frame that I got for free. I would love to have the look of a box-section (squared off, non aero) rim for this bike. So I'm wanting to build up a lightweight "vintage" wheelset that will come in around 1200g. By my calculations a set of G.E.L. 280s in a 28/32H configuration with DT Revolution spokes and a ~320g hub set should get me to this goal.

Problem is I know nothing about the G.E.L. 280s and the catalog from the 80s doesn't offer much info. AND my hefty a$$ is currently around 207lbs, hoping to be weighing in around 190lbs by the time I get this thing ready to ride.

Am I living in a dream thinking that I could pull off a 1200g wheelset at my weight?? And are the 280s (at a true weight of ~305g) the best way to go.

Thanks, Haven

shoota 

1200g wheelset? Now that's impressive even by today's standards.

no_safe_HAVEN

I know. Thats why I wanted to try it out. I figured if I was going to build a new set of wheels I might as well drop as much weight as I could from my current set which is 1515g. And get the old school look.

Just not sure If it will work under my weight.

Six jours

I used essentially that set-up for time trials and championship road/crit races at 168 pounds. They worked perfectly.

So they'll work for you as long as you don't use them much and don't go plowing through potholes and over curbs. I mean, it's not as though these things will collapse because you're 30 or 40 pounds heavier than the racers who used them "back in the day" - it's just that they will go out of true more often, and will be more susceptible to serious damage from impacts that 400 grams rims would have no problem with, and will "wear out" (more and more frequent spoke breakage) sooner.

<edit> FWIW, you can add significant strength with minimal additional weight by going 36 front and rear. I believe the lightest wheels I ever played with were +/- 250 gram Scheeren rims built with 36 spokes front and rear. They were decades old at the time and still perfectly true...

aramis

I'd hate to build a wheelset where I have to worry about damaging them going over rough roads and it looks like those rims have some known durability issues. I do most of my riding on 32 spoke clinchers that weigh a ton though, and I'm 160.

But hey, I question putting tubulars on a bike you're just going to ride around and not race, but if you're willing to put up with them I guess more fragile wheels aren't that much more of a hassle.

no_safe_HAVEN

The most impact the clinchers i ride now ever see is the ocasional bunny hop over a mean bump on one of my normal routes. im really careful about avoiding hazards. And really the roads I ride around her are smothe. Not much in the way of torn up back country or city roads in the suburbs.

As for the spoke count, i have been riding 24/24H for the last year with out even one wiggle out of true. And they are just cheap Kinlin 300s. So thats why I was thinking 32s.. (Continued below...)

I hadnt though about the overall durability of every day riding on the rims. This is the info I was looking for. This is going to be a daily riding wheelset, meaning 3-4 days a week... ill look into that further.

As for the tubs, well I have always wanted to try them out. I figure If i hate it ill just sell the rims and tubes off and re-lace the hubs.

Six jours

I scratch my head at the people who think tubulars are only for race day or whatever. Tubulars are not delicate or temperamental, and they are not hard to work with. I certainly prefer gluing up a tubular to mounting one of the horrifically tight Conti or Challenge clinchers.

Regardless, I personally would not use GEL280s for daily riding, especially not daily riding that requires bunny hopping obstacles. They're going to spend a lot of time on the truing stand, and you're going to see repetitive spoke breakage issues much sooner than you'd like, IMO. Sorry that's not the answer you're hoping for, but it's my honest opinion based on real experience with them.

reg

Some people do 280's in the front with 380's in the back. Myself I bike differently with bomb proof rims vs a light and delicate slick. This si what having a couple wheelsets is for.

I have 4 sets. 2 vintages 1 for backup the other for classy old school look. another for just speed and smooth roads and roller and the other everyday with heavier tires/rims. with 7spd its not an issue to buy 4 cassettes or freewheels. Get em built right and you will almost never have to true them.

no_safe_HAVEN

Actually that IS pretty much what I was looking for jours/reg. I was thinking they might be on the fragile side but, like I said, I didnt know for sure. Cant know if you dont ask right?

So if you guys were to recommend a rim what would it be? GL330, Fiamme Hard Silver, Wolber Aspen???

reg

Mavic module E E2 clincher rims, polished and boxy. perfect for vintage, loads of heritage can fit a 23mm no problems. The E was the first clincher, E2 was the improved one. put latex tubes and nice tanwall 320tpi skinwall tire and it will look the business.

The E2 on is harder to find, but it is double eyeletted. Sometimes on ebay new old ones come up for sale.

gaucho777 

+1 to everything six jours said. That man makes a lot of sense. My $0.02: Do yourself a favor and use a more robust rim if you plan to use the wheels much. The weight penalty of ~50g per rim, plus another 40g or so for 8 add'l spokes, is worth the trouble. FWIW, the wheelset I use most has 32h GEL 330s. Paired with Mavic 501s hubs and a Regina FW, it's still a very light wheelset (maybe in the 1400g range incl. skewers?). Btw, my actual weight is 190 pounds as of this morning, but I'd been using these wheels while I weighed 220 pounds not long ago.

Hey, you calling me fat?

P.s. I don't consider 190 lbs. fat...unless you are very short, of course.

no_safe_HAVEN

Would never call anyone but myself fat... currently at 207 and trying to bring it back down.

Good to know about the 330s. I actually have my eye on a NOS pair of 32H and was considering them as an option.

Side note...I love how they're around 70g over claimed weight. Must be weighed without the eyelets.

miamijim

1200g + vintage does not equal durable. Even with 36 spokes. Modern wheels get away with this due to the extreme V box rims.

I had a 28h GEL 280 rim laced radially to a Phil Wood hub with a 280g tire and it just came in under 1000g with the skewer. It was a very delicate wheel.

At 207 lbs look for a GL 330's 28h double butted spokes with Record hubs and alloy/ti skewers. Add 280g tires and that's about the best you'll do.

no_safe_HAVEN

Yeah i was doing some late night research and have come to the realization that I'm going to have to run a heavier wheel set no mater what. Short of dropping down to 170lbs. My. Decision now is do i still commit to the tubs or do i save the costs ant compromise on the look and just run a 20mm modern clincher. As it is a pair of 280g tubs weighs in at more than the Kendas with light weight tubes, I'm currently running, does.

Good thing I'm not even close to having the bike ready, so its not a decision that is holding me up.

Chombi

+1 on most comments about the GEL280's
They are definitely a weenie wheelset that should be used carefully....as in just for "special" rides on the smoothest road conditions....if one will expect them to stay true and round. I've not heard of GEL280 wheelsets asploding spontaneously on riders, but I've seen enough posts mentioning cracking at the rim eyelet holes after some time and miles of use.
A 330GL rimmed wheelset will be much more reliable and still be quite light........but it is quite fun to have that special super weenie set, as with GEL280's, to feel what it's like to ride the "edge" of the mid 80's wheel engineering envelope.....
Good luck with the weenie wheesetl build! Tell us how it goes!

no_safe_HAVEN

Thanks for all the help guys. I glad I asked before pulling the trigger on a set of 280s.

Really not sure which direction I'm going to head now. Was doing some more reading about hard anodizing, and im thinking I dont want to have to deal with the potential problems. Looks like Im trying to be a bit to weight weenieish with these things. Need to lean more in the 1300 range. I still want a dark color box-section rim though. Its too bad no one builds a modern 12mm profile rim.

Bikedued

I've been as heavy as 235 and never folded up any vintage road bike rims, if that says anything? And some tubulars can be as tight or tighter than clincher tires, found that out through work experience. A couple of times there were TWO people struggling to get a tubular tire stretched over a rim.,,,,BD

Six jours

Well, I still think you might be happy with 280s if you go with 36 spokes. I know that approach is weird by post-1970 standards, but I've been pretty impressed by light, high spoke count wheels.

Beyond that, I used GL330s extensively and have nothing bad to say about them. Even with 32 instead of 36 holes, I never managed to ruin one.

On the whole, though, I've always trusted 400 gram rims for day-to-day riding. Mavic GP4s built 3 cross with 36 spokes are essentially bomproof and still quite light, compared with modern clinchers and even some of the deep carbon rims. Mated with a good quality 250 gram tire, you've got an awfully nice set of wheels.

Six jours

I'm currently using Sun "Vista Cruiser" rims on my 'cross bike. These are black anodized, 385 grams, 14mm tall, and almost box section - they still have a small raised center portion. Despite what I consider to be not enough spokes, (24/28) they're holding up very well.

Bianchigirll 

Back in the day GP 4s were for general riding and training, GEL 330s were used for racing (some lighter guys rode them all the time) the 280s were usually consider real light race and time trial rims. Some riders used the front and rear for 'Crit' wheels but usually we just used them for front.

Have you started pricing NOS Mavic rims? cha ching!

rekmeyata

You do not want to ride on 28/32 spoke wheels, your weight is too much for those to handle. You should be riding on 36/36 ideally or 32/36 marginal. And those vintage rims are not as strong as newer rims like the Mavic Open Pro Silver that looks like a vintage rim but is stronger than vintage rims use to be, so since they are not as strong I would go with nothing less than 36/36 laced 3x using DT Competition double butted spokes and not use any Revolution spokes, and brass nipples. If you decide on a modern rim like the Mavic OP you could get away with 32/36 but again 3x laced, DT Comp spokes (again NO Revs), and brass nips. Your saving such a small amount of weight going with 36 spokes it's not worth the headache you're going to have with lower spoke counts. Personally I would go with 36/36, the less constant need for truing these after a ride is a lot more, and the less likely a spoke will fail.

But it is your wheelset, you can build them anyway you want.

no_safe_HAVEN

Well I have to take back my statement about no modern box-sections. h plus son makes the tb14. They are freaking hella nice looking in the black anodized!!!



But why do they have to be heavier than my 30mm Kinlins...

rekmeyata

Those are a lot like the Torelli Triumph rims that Torelli, or actually Ambrosio has made for years called the Triumph. The Triumph are fantastic rims and a bit lighter then the Kinlins by about 40 or 50 grams a piece.

no_safe_HAVEN

Thank you for your input but I have to beg to differ. I have been riding on a set of 24/24s for the last year at my 200+ weight and have had no problems with them. Now they are Sapim Race not the lighter Revolutions that I'm specking for this build. But I have to believe that running a higher count will still help.

Ill check those out as well... Thanks.

<edit> the problem with those is they are more like a 22mm rim rather than the 12-14mm look Im after. Thanks again.

Thanks again Six jours. I'm taking into consideration EVERYONE'S information. Its a lot to digest when you know very little on the subject. Ill look into the Vista Cruisers as well.

<EDIT> Unfortunatly cant find Vista Cruiser Rims. Only wheelsets. Oh well.

Im actually asking myself why am I really after the super light wheel when Im already specking out a 17lb steel classic... But then I really cant help myself!!!!

rekmeyata

The 24/24 you were on are modern rims, you said you wanted older vintage rims for this vintage build, they were not as strong as modern rims are, this is why I was suggesting more spokes. I use to race back in the 70's and 80's and I could get the 70's era and the early 80's rear rims to flex hammering up mountains, and I only weighed 154 at the time, I knew people who could break them or at the very least having to true them after every ride especially the 28's and some of the 32's, that's why most of us back then decided not use anything but either 32/36 or 36/36 as I did; some of the even lighter people than me could get away with 28/32. Now imagine trying to do that on NOS vintage rims weighing 204.