Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-28-05, 11:55 PM   #1
mswantak
Glutton for Punishment
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Leandro, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 2,896
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What year is this old Raleigh Grand Prix?

Picked it up the other day; a little scruffy, but seems to be all original except for the rear tire. I figure it to be late '60s but can't quite pin it down. None of the old catalogs at Retro Raleighs lists silver as a color in the same year that the Williams crank appears. Here's some pics:



mswantak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-05, 04:14 AM   #2
wahoonc
Senior Member
 
wahoonc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On the road-USA
Bikes: Giant Excursion, Raleigh Sports, Raleigh R.S.W. Compact, Motobecane? and about 20 more! OMG
Posts: 16,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am only going to hazzard a guess that it is early 70's...I have a few Motobecane's that use the same basic equipment, ie, stem, pedals,... Also that color along with a green and black was pretty much standard at that time. FWIW details didn't change as much every year back then like they do now.
Aaron
wahoonc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-05, 07:20 AM   #3
USAZorro
Seņor Member
 
USAZorro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Florence, KY
Bikes: 1954 Hetchins M.O., 1959 Viking Severn Valley, 1970 Raleigh Pro, 1972 Fuji "The Finest", 1974 Raleigh Superbe&Comp, 1976 Raleigh Team Pro, 1996 Giant Iguana, 2000 Bob Jackson Arrowhead
Posts: 14,387
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
No serial number? The heron badge puts it between 1967-1971. Dates on hubs or on crankset might help narrow it down.
__________________
In search of what to search for.
USAZorro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-05, 08:11 AM   #4
avenan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Bikes:
Posts: 255
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mswantak
None of the old catalogs at Retro Raleighs lists silver as a color in the same year that the Williams crank appears.
Maybe its the pictures, but that silver looks a little blueish to me. Sure its not just a faded blue mink? (not that this at all helps with dating...)

Last edited by avenan; 03-01-05 at 08:20 AM.
avenan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-05, 08:21 AM   #5
powers2b
Listen to me
 
powers2b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Texas
Bikes:
Posts: 2,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The Date of manufacture is stamped on the bottom bracket spindle.
I have worked on many Raleighs and judging by the headbadge and forks I would date it about mid-70's.
Enjoy
powers2b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-05, 08:26 AM   #6
Iride
Senior Member
 
Iride's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: amherst, ma
Bikes: 1999 giant rincon se (lx)
Posts: 120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What did you pay for it ,, out of curiosity?
Iride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-05, 08:26 AM   #7
mswantak
Glutton for Punishment
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Leandro, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 2,896
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The serial number on the underside of the BB looks like this:

695236
X

And yeah, it's silver; the blue tinge is a result of trying to take pics at night.

In all the catalogs at Retro Raleighs, I find either the color, the Simplex gear, or the Williams crank, but never all three at once. There are some gaps in their catalogs, perhaps it's one of those. Anybody know what year the Grand Prix was introduced?

Anyway, I'll ride it down to my LBS this morning. Ol' Clarence has been a Raleigh dealer since Hector was a pup; he oughta be able to ID it.
mswantak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-05, 08:55 AM   #8
powers2b
Listen to me
 
powers2b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Texas
Bikes:
Posts: 2,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iride
What did you pay for it ,, out of curiosity?
I have one just like it, in red, with a metal headbadge (1972).
$15 at a yard sale.
powers2b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-05, 11:19 AM   #9
Noah Scape
can't member
 
Noah Scape's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Iowa City
Bikes:
Posts: 1,716
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mswantak
Anybody know what year the Grand Prix was introduced?
I think 1968 was the first year for the GP. I don't know how to decipher the serial number, but I concur with USAZorro and since it starts with 69, that may represent the year.
Noah Scape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-05, 11:28 AM   #10
mswantak
Glutton for Punishment
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Leandro, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 2,896
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I found another number on the left rear dropout: 119221. Also under the seat, I can make out an imprint that reads '67 B5N', so the saddle may be a little older than the rest of the bike.

Compared to powers2b, I got skinned; I paid $40.
mswantak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-05, 11:55 AM   #11
powers2b
Listen to me
 
powers2b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Texas
Bikes:
Posts: 2,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Again, THe date of manufacture is stamped on the bottom bracket spindle.
You just have to remove the cranks and check it.
Sheldon Brown has several links to help date Raleighs.
powers2b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-05, 12:10 PM   #12
USAZorro
Seņor Member
 
USAZorro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Florence, KY
Bikes: 1954 Hetchins M.O., 1959 Viking Severn Valley, 1970 Raleigh Pro, 1972 Fuji "The Finest", 1974 Raleigh Superbe&Comp, 1976 Raleigh Team Pro, 1996 Giant Iguana, 2000 Bob Jackson Arrowhead
Posts: 14,387
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
I'll put on my Karnac turban, wave the picture of the bike in front of my head and say "1968". Verify by checking the spindle, as it is likely on there, but I'd be SHOCKED if it isn't hiding somewhere under paint and grime on the actual frame.
__________________
In search of what to search for.
USAZorro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-05, 12:18 PM   #13
lotek
Forum Admin
 
lotek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: n.w. superdrome
Bikes: 1 trek, serotta, rih, de Reus, Pogliaghi and finally a Zieleman! and got a DeRosa
Posts: 17,702
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
wouldn't the spindle have the date of manufacture of the spindle
and not the frame? Am I missing something here?
I'd say one of the 2 serial numbers on the frame.
Marty
__________________
Sono pių lento di quel che sembra.
Odio la gente, tutti.


Want to upgrade your membership? Click Here.
lotek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-05, 01:08 PM   #14
mswantak
Glutton for Punishment
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Leandro, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 2,896
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAZorro
I'll put on my Karnac turban, wave the picture of the bike in front of my head and say "1968".
Except the Grand Prix in the '68 catalog has a Nervex crank. I have a hunch Raleigh was one of those places where if you ran out of the specified crank, you grabbed another that fit and kept on going.
mswantak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-05, 01:15 PM   #15
powers2b
Listen to me
 
powers2b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Texas
Bikes:
Posts: 2,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
In the USA between 1970 and 1972, demand for lightweight ten-speed cycles increased forty-fold. Raleigh Record and Grand Prix models, based on Carlton designs, sold there in massive numbers. At one point they were being made in Nottingham, at Worksop (by Carlton), in the Netherlands by Gazelle, by Raleigh Ireland and possibly even in Malaysia.
Enjoy
powers2b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-05, 01:28 PM   #16
powers2b
Listen to me
 
powers2b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Texas
Bikes:
Posts: 2,789
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotek
wouldn't the spindle have the date of manufacture of the spindle
and not the frame? Am I missing something here?
I'd say one of the 2 serial numbers on the frame.
Marty
Raleigh made all their own components at the Nottingham facility.
They were producing thousands of bikes per week.
I think it is safe to assume that they did not have an inventory of bb spindles for more than a year.

Here are some photos from the catalog:

http://retroraleighs.com/grand-prix.html
powers2b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-05, 01:43 PM   #17
lotek
Forum Admin
 
lotek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: n.w. superdrome
Bikes: 1 trek, serotta, rih, de Reus, Pogliaghi and finally a Zieleman! and got a DeRosa
Posts: 17,702
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
ah, Thanks for the clarification. I was thinking outsourced
parts ala Campy BBs etc.

Marty
__________________
Sono pių lento di quel che sembra.
Odio la gente, tutti.


Want to upgrade your membership? Click Here.
lotek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-05, 02:29 PM   #18
USAZorro
Seņor Member
 
USAZorro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Florence, KY
Bikes: 1954 Hetchins M.O., 1959 Viking Severn Valley, 1970 Raleigh Pro, 1972 Fuji "The Finest", 1974 Raleigh Superbe&Comp, 1976 Raleigh Team Pro, 1996 Giant Iguana, 2000 Bob Jackson Arrowhead
Posts: 14,387
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Two questions because I can't quite make this out from the photos. Do you actually see a decal that says "Grand Prix" on it? What decals are on the seat tube?
__________________
In search of what to search for.
USAZorro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-05, 02:54 PM   #19
USAZorro
Seņor Member
 
USAZorro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Florence, KY
Bikes: 1954 Hetchins M.O., 1959 Viking Severn Valley, 1970 Raleigh Pro, 1972 Fuji "The Finest", 1974 Raleigh Superbe&Comp, 1976 Raleigh Team Pro, 1996 Giant Iguana, 2000 Bob Jackson Arrowhead
Posts: 14,387
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
I suspect that you may have a Grand Prix with some leftover Raleigh Carlton Paint and parts. (see page 3 on link) http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalog...67-Catalog.pdf

Also note Sheldon's numbering scheme notes for numbering schemes - note the fine print under the periods 1955-1966 and 1967-1973. I think that by 1968, the number range would be in the range of your serial number - the "deep-in-the-alphabet" letter is consistent. Also consider that the Grand Prix frame material would probably not meet the standard described for the 1967-1973 scheme.
http://retroraleighs.com/dating.html

I'm sticking with my 1968 guess.
__________________
In search of what to search for.
USAZorro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-05, 06:09 PM   #20
kranz
Senior Member
 
kranz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Silver Comet Trail
Bikes:
Posts: 155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You will want to replace that handle bar stem before you do any serious riding. That appears to be the infamous "death stem". I found one of those on a Raleigh supercourse from around 1971.

Last edited by kranz; 03-01-05 at 06:21 PM.
kranz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-05, 06:58 PM   #21
Iride
Senior Member
 
Iride's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: amherst, ma
Bikes: 1999 giant rincon se (lx)
Posts: 120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kranz
You will want to replace that handle bar stem before you do any serious riding. That appears to be the infamous "death stem". I found one of those on a Raleigh supercourse from around 1971.

Why is that front derail... so high?,, just the picture?
Iride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-05, 07:16 PM   #22
mswantak
Glutton for Punishment
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Leandro, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 2,896
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAZorro
Two questions because I can't quite make this out from the photos. Do you actually see a decal that says "Grand Prix" on it? What decals are on the seat tube?
Yup, inside the blue band on the toptube -- 'Grand Prix' in what used to be gold script. The seat tube is supposed to have a decal of the same design as the headstock badge, but all that's left is the outline.

The local Raleigh dealer said it's definitely older than 1969 -- more like mid-'60s, but he couldn't be more precise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kranz
You will want to replace that handle bar stem before you do any serious riding. That appears to be the infamous "death stem". I found one of those on a Raleigh supercourse from around 1971.
It's an AVA stem. So why, pray tell, is it referred to as the 'Death Stem'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iride
Why is that front derail... so high?,, just the picture?
It was broken, and sliding all over the place. It's been replaced by a Shimano 60 for the moment.
mswantak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-05, 07:19 PM   #23
Iride
Senior Member
 
Iride's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: amherst, ma
Bikes: 1999 giant rincon se (lx)
Posts: 120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mswantak
It was broken, and sliding all over the place. It's been replaced by a Shimano 60 for the moment.
thought it was just me.
Iride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-05, 07:31 PM   #24
USAZorro
Seņor Member
 
USAZorro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Florence, KY
Bikes: 1954 Hetchins M.O., 1959 Viking Severn Valley, 1970 Raleigh Pro, 1972 Fuji "The Finest", 1974 Raleigh Superbe&Comp, 1976 Raleigh Team Pro, 1996 Giant Iguana, 2000 Bob Jackson Arrowhead
Posts: 14,387
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mswantak
It's an AVA stem. So why, pray tell, is it referred to as the 'Death Stem'?
AVA stems have a known propensity to crack - apparently when you need them most.
__________________
In search of what to search for.
USAZorro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-05, 07:34 PM   #25
Noah Scape
can't member
 
Noah Scape's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Iowa City
Bikes:
Posts: 1,716
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mswantak
The local Raleigh dealer said it's definitely older than 1969 -- more like mid-'60s, but he couldn't be more precise.
I think the dealer's wrong... was s/he working at the shop in the mid-60s? My money is on a '68 or '69.
Noah Scape is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:18 AM.