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  1. #1
    Glutton for Punishment
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    What year is this old Raleigh Grand Prix?

    Picked it up the other day; a little scruffy, but seems to be all original except for the rear tire. I figure it to be late '60s but can't quite pin it down. None of the old catalogs at Retro Raleighs lists silver as a color in the same year that the Williams crank appears. Here's some pics:




  2. #2
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    I am only going to hazzard a guess that it is early 70's...I have a few Motobecane's that use the same basic equipment, ie, stem, pedals,... Also that color along with a green and black was pretty much standard at that time. FWIW details didn't change as much every year back then like they do now.
    Aaron

  3. #3
    Seņor Member USAZorro's Avatar
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    No serial number? The heron badge puts it between 1967-1971. Dates on hubs or on crankset might help narrow it down.
    The search for inner peace continues...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mswantak
    None of the old catalogs at Retro Raleighs lists silver as a color in the same year that the Williams crank appears.
    Maybe its the pictures, but that silver looks a little blueish to me. Sure its not just a faded blue mink? (not that this at all helps with dating...)
    Last edited by avenan; 03-01-05 at 07:20 AM.

  5. #5
    Listen to me powers2b's Avatar
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    The Date of manufacture is stamped on the bottom bracket spindle.
    I have worked on many Raleighs and judging by the headbadge and forks I would date it about mid-70's.
    Enjoy

  6. #6
    Senior Member Iride's Avatar
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    What did you pay for it ,, out of curiosity?

  7. #7
    Glutton for Punishment
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    The serial number on the underside of the BB looks like this:

    695236
    X

    And yeah, it's silver; the blue tinge is a result of trying to take pics at night.

    In all the catalogs at Retro Raleighs, I find either the color, the Simplex gear, or the Williams crank, but never all three at once. There are some gaps in their catalogs, perhaps it's one of those. Anybody know what year the Grand Prix was introduced?

    Anyway, I'll ride it down to my LBS this morning. Ol' Clarence has been a Raleigh dealer since Hector was a pup; he oughta be able to ID it.

  8. #8
    Listen to me powers2b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iride
    What did you pay for it ,, out of curiosity?
    I have one just like it, in red, with a metal headbadge (1972).
    $15 at a yard sale.

  9. #9
    can't member Noah Scape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mswantak
    Anybody know what year the Grand Prix was introduced?
    I think 1968 was the first year for the GP. I don't know how to decipher the serial number, but I concur with USAZorro and since it starts with 69, that may represent the year.

  10. #10
    Glutton for Punishment
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    I found another number on the left rear dropout: 119221. Also under the seat, I can make out an imprint that reads '67 B5N', so the saddle may be a little older than the rest of the bike.

    Compared to powers2b, I got skinned; I paid $40.

  11. #11
    Listen to me powers2b's Avatar
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    Again, THe date of manufacture is stamped on the bottom bracket spindle.
    You just have to remove the cranks and check it.
    Sheldon Brown has several links to help date Raleighs.

  12. #12
    Seņor Member USAZorro's Avatar
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    I'll put on my Karnac turban, wave the picture of the bike in front of my head and say "1968". Verify by checking the spindle, as it is likely on there, but I'd be SHOCKED if it isn't hiding somewhere under paint and grime on the actual frame.
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  13. #13
    Forum Admin lotek's Avatar
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    wouldn't the spindle have the date of manufacture of the spindle
    and not the frame? Am I missing something here?
    I'd say one of the 2 serial numbers on the frame.
    Marty
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  14. #14
    Glutton for Punishment
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAZorro
    I'll put on my Karnac turban, wave the picture of the bike in front of my head and say "1968".
    Except the Grand Prix in the '68 catalog has a Nervex crank. I have a hunch Raleigh was one of those places where if you ran out of the specified crank, you grabbed another that fit and kept on going.

  15. #15
    Listen to me powers2b's Avatar
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    In the USA between 1970 and 1972, demand for lightweight ten-speed cycles increased forty-fold. Raleigh Record and Grand Prix models, based on Carlton designs, sold there in massive numbers. At one point they were being made in Nottingham, at Worksop (by Carlton), in the Netherlands by Gazelle, by Raleigh Ireland and possibly even in Malaysia.
    Enjoy

  16. #16
    Listen to me powers2b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotek
    wouldn't the spindle have the date of manufacture of the spindle
    and not the frame? Am I missing something here?
    I'd say one of the 2 serial numbers on the frame.
    Marty
    Raleigh made all their own components at the Nottingham facility.
    They were producing thousands of bikes per week.
    I think it is safe to assume that they did not have an inventory of bb spindles for more than a year.

    Here are some photos from the catalog:

    http://retroraleighs.com/grand-prix.html

  17. #17
    Forum Admin lotek's Avatar
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    ah, Thanks for the clarification. I was thinking outsourced
    parts ala Campy BBs etc.

    Marty
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  18. #18
    Seņor Member USAZorro's Avatar
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    Two questions because I can't quite make this out from the photos. Do you actually see a decal that says "Grand Prix" on it? What decals are on the seat tube?
    The search for inner peace continues...

  19. #19
    Seņor Member USAZorro's Avatar
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    I suspect that you may have a Grand Prix with some leftover Raleigh Carlton Paint and parts. (see page 3 on link) http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalog...67-Catalog.pdf

    Also note Sheldon's numbering scheme notes for numbering schemes - note the fine print under the periods 1955-1966 and 1967-1973. I think that by 1968, the number range would be in the range of your serial number - the "deep-in-the-alphabet" letter is consistent. Also consider that the Grand Prix frame material would probably not meet the standard described for the 1967-1973 scheme.
    http://retroraleighs.com/dating.html

    I'm sticking with my 1968 guess.
    The search for inner peace continues...

  20. #20
    Senior Member kranz's Avatar
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    You will want to replace that handle bar stem before you do any serious riding. That appears to be the infamous "death stem". I found one of those on a Raleigh supercourse from around 1971.
    Last edited by kranz; 03-01-05 at 05:21 PM.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Iride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kranz
    You will want to replace that handle bar stem before you do any serious riding. That appears to be the infamous "death stem". I found one of those on a Raleigh supercourse from around 1971.

    Why is that front derail... so high?,, just the picture?

  22. #22
    Glutton for Punishment
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAZorro
    Two questions because I can't quite make this out from the photos. Do you actually see a decal that says "Grand Prix" on it? What decals are on the seat tube?
    Yup, inside the blue band on the toptube -- 'Grand Prix' in what used to be gold script. The seat tube is supposed to have a decal of the same design as the headstock badge, but all that's left is the outline.

    The local Raleigh dealer said it's definitely older than 1969 -- more like mid-'60s, but he couldn't be more precise.

    Quote Originally Posted by kranz
    You will want to replace that handle bar stem before you do any serious riding. That appears to be the infamous "death stem". I found one of those on a Raleigh supercourse from around 1971.
    It's an AVA stem. So why, pray tell, is it referred to as the 'Death Stem'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Iride
    Why is that front derail... so high?,, just the picture?
    It was broken, and sliding all over the place. It's been replaced by a Shimano 60 for the moment.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Iride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mswantak
    It was broken, and sliding all over the place. It's been replaced by a Shimano 60 for the moment.
    thought it was just me.

  24. #24
    Seņor Member USAZorro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mswantak
    It's an AVA stem. So why, pray tell, is it referred to as the 'Death Stem'?
    AVA stems have a known propensity to crack - apparently when you need them most.
    The search for inner peace continues...

  25. #25
    can't member Noah Scape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mswantak
    The local Raleigh dealer said it's definitely older than 1969 -- more like mid-'60s, but he couldn't be more precise.
    I think the dealer's wrong... was s/he working at the shop in the mid-60s? My money is on a '68 or '69.

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