7/8timing

So I've run into a few vintage rims that are slightly too big to take a modern non folding clincher. I think it would be nice to find one thread that has them all listed. So you can find out if that if that vintage wheelset that's on craigslist or Ebay is worth it. Or if it's gonna be a head ache of tire levers and pinched fingers and pinched tubes.


Here's some I've have found.

Ambrosio Elite 19

Campagnolo Omega

Matrix ISO II

Please feel free to add to the list as you see fit. Or ad some tips for getting modern tires on them like using soap and using folding bead tires etc.

jiangshi

https://www.crankbrothers.com/tools_speedlever.php

Bianchigirll 

I don't know about the others but the Elites didn't easily mount tires back in the late '80s either.

shoota 

Mine do. Easily compared to my buddy's ambrosios. Harder than my Shimano R551s though. One tire lever is all it takes. I guess it's just luck of the draw with them.

mechanicmatt

Agreed.

Nearly every Ambrosio and Campy rim from the 80's/90's, I would feel this way. Also original Ritchey Vantages in any size.

jeffpepperdine

+1. I'm running a pair of these on my Masi, and changing a tire is a mission!

Pars 

My Ambrosio's aren't bad (1980 vintage), though they do take two levers. Other than the set of Avocet Cross 700x32s on them now, that I can mount or dismount pretty much by hand. Might need 1 lever to get the last bead on, or 1st bead started off. The Matrix ISO IIs I have aren't really that bad either. Don't have a tire jack, and use Pedro's levers.

jeffpepperdine

Which Ambrosios? Are the Elite 19's?

cyclotoine

Agreed again. This has nothing to do with the rim being "slightly too big". Yes the rims you listed are a bit of a chore to mount tires on, but any tire can be mounted if one wishes.

Pars 

Yes.

Hellarar

My Matrix ISO C-IIs have wire beard 700x28C Pasela TG on.

GrayJay

I had some wolber sx23 rims (23mm outsidewidth) together with continental ultrasport 700x23 tires were poor match for me, the tires would not stay centered on the rim bead, gave a very lump, out of round fit. I tried re-centering them several times but they would never stay put. Same tires on different (narrower) rims and the same rims with different tires worked fine so it just seemed to be a incompatable pairing.

eschlwc

yeah, i started a thread about my ambrosio elite 19s and tire mounting difficulty when i first acquired them back in march. i was using a folding 23c pasela, which i think made the exercise even harder. but once they're on there and ridden for a couple weeks, the tires can be removed and mounted again just like any rim. you may still need two pedro's levers.

i won't buy folding paselas again for any rim, much less the ambrosios. i find the wire beaded paselas are easier to mount on any. they're probably less expensive too.

7/8timing

if you have to use a tire lever of any sort to get a tire back on a rim. there is a problem. It makes it difficult to change on the road. and is a pain when you commute on a bike.

I have never had any problem with my Velocity deepV's, aerohead's or Fusion's or Gipiemme Parades or Araya's or Mavic G40's and SUP' reflex's. I also have a set of 26" Ritchey vantage comp's on my Mtn. bike that fit fine.

I forgot to mention I had a set of Mavic MA2's that were a pain to change too.

Could someone please explain to me that if it isnt the rim, then what is it that makes the same tire on one rim hard to put on but not on another type of rim?

cyclotoine

Yes some rims are made to different specification which make them a PITA to put a tire on. It's not like someone screwed up and accidentally made it to bit. It was intentional.

I have only once met a rim I could not mount a tire on without a lever. However, if you know what you are doing it is not a problem, but it is a little annoying.

7/8timing

Mostly made this thread so people would know what to expect when buying a used wheelset.
as to them being made that way, were the tires built differently in the late 80's and early 90's? seems like that's when you run into this problem, with rims from that era.
Just wondering, that's all.

other than the rims I listed I have never had to use a tire lever.

repechage

I was given a pair of these as the fellow who had them ruined too many a tire attempting to mount tires on.
The bead seat is probably correct, but the rim wall extends to a larger ultimate outside diameter, from my measure over 1 mm.

I have mounted tires on them, wire bead tires being easier for some reason, but these are not a rim I would wish to get a puncture out in on the road.
All the tricks to make a tire seat easily are required with these.
I do think one could run high pressure with impunity though.

cyclotoine

it was the era of narrow tires, as narrow as 18mm. I imagine they were designed that way so these narrow tires could be run at the extremely high pressures that were en vogue at the time. We know now this was silly but we had to try it to figure it out.

Chombi

I had Ambrosio Elite 19 rims on my Peugeot back in the 80's.
The only time it was hard to put on tires was the first time when the (foldable Specialized Turbos and Michelin Bibsport T20s) tires were brand new. I had to use all 3 tire levers to get them on with quite a bit of effort. But after some miles and time on the tires, I always eventually was able to remount them after removal with just my fingers/thumbs, so I think the horror stories about how its close to impossible to mount tires on Ambrosio Elite 19 rims are a bit overblown....

rfj

I'll add Mavic Module 3 Argent D to the list.
Nice looking rims but a complete PITA to get tires mounted.

Italuminium

More modern Campagnolo Zonda rims are no fun either, with tight clinchers.

Be wary of some Alex rims though, on the other end. They are slightly under spec and can lose loose fitting clinchers.

Scooper

I think the problem is that the bead seat diameter, 622mm for a 700c rim, is measured from the bottom of the well, not just below the hook. Some rims have deeper wells than others.

Notice the bead seat is at the bottom of the well, and note Sheldon Brown's comment in his article on rim sizes.




Now read this article by Jan Heine regarding mounting tires on rims with deep wells:

Mounting Tires on rims with Deep Wells

The overall diameter of deep well rims is larger than the overall diameter of shallow well rims, and that makes mounting tires on them more difficult.

T-Mar

I am a long time user of both Ambrosio Elite 19 and Campagnolo Omega and cannot recall ever having mounting issues. However, just to be sure, I went into the shop and grabbed a new tire out of a carton. I popped a tube into the casing and applied enough air to give it shape. The I mounted it on the Elite 19, using only my bare hands, in 32 seconds. The Omega took slightly longer at 35 seconds and was also mountable with bare hands.

I could easily say the OP is wrong, as my experience proves otherwise. While I don't doubt he's having problems, it's not necessarily a rim issue. It could be a tire issue. Even if both are manufactured with their tolerance range, it's possible to have issues if the rim as the high end of it's tolerance and the tire is at it's low end. It's also possible that either the rim or tire is a defect (i.e. outside the tolerance range) and not necessarily representive of all product. The bottom line is that it's misleading to categorically state that certain models of rims have mounting issues, especially when the relationship between tire and rim is so synergistic.

(97)

Dfrost 

Early Torelli Master rims were a total PIA, with every tire and tool I tried. I could remove/install the same tires on my wife's Mavic Open Pro with no tools at all.

Campagnolo Omega 19 rims from the early 90's were as easy as the Mavics, BTW, so not all Campy rims are difficult. I just used one of those old Omega 19's to rebuild a bashed wheel on my son's bike, and remembered how nice they were.

shoota 

He's not totally wrong. My Elite 19s take one, MAYBE two levers to get a tire on while my buddy's Elite 19s are darn impossible with three levers and the same tires. With the multitude of threads out there already about these rims I think it's safe to say that your 32 second experience is atypical.